How Tech Wrecked San Francisco - Page 4

the urban politician · #61 Posted **May 23, 2019, 5:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

but i go back and forth on chicago's approach. on the one hand it would be nice to have more convenient options, but on the other hand the restrictions probably do help some of the city's multitudes of smaller mom n' pop ethnic places stay viable as businesses.

^ How many mom n pop ethnic establishments do you notice downtown?

Food trucks want to be downtown where there is the largest amount of foot traffic. It will allow more downtown office workers and tourists to access neighborhood ethnic food as opposed to choosing either between a sit-down restaurant and Jimmy John's

mousquet · #62 Posted **May 23, 2019, 5:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ How many mom n pop ethnic establishments do you notice downtown?

Food trucks want to be downtown where there is the largest amount of foot traffic. It will allow more downtown office workers and tourists to access neighborhood ethnic food as opposed to choosing either between a sit-down restaurant and Jimmy John's

That's a point, and it's true that the regulation may appear a little disturbing. But you never know about the outcome.

It might actually cause / induce more "ethnic" restaurants to grow better established in town.
Over here in the Paris region, even independent kebab restaurants don't need trucks. They've got their own establishments open to the streets.
Same for the Asians, Mex-Tex and all.

Let's be honest, a truck is nothing much comfy to serve one's customers. You can't even sit at peace to have your meal.
You have to find a street bench or something, or downright swallow it by standing and walking.
Not so cool, you'll admit.

You know, it is healthier to sit and take a little time to chew and swallow one's meal.
That might well be a fair reason for this regulation.

dimondpark · #63 Posted **May 23, 2019, 5:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

In SF, the most creative ethnic food now comes from food trucks that are having kind of a golden age because their overhead is so much lower than an actual restaurant that pays inflated rent.

As for the salads . . . they are organic and cost $20. Not my thing.

Menu: Mixt

No need to put prices on the menu because we know you'll pay whatever it costs as long as you know the pedigree of the soybeans going into the tofu on your plate.

Ugh@those upscale salad places. Theyre like everywhere.

the urban politician · #64 Posted **May 23, 2019, 6:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mousquet

That's a point, and it's true that the regulation may appear a little disturbing. But you never know about the outcome.

It might actually cause / induce more "ethnic" restaurants to grow better established in town.
Over here in the Paris region, even independent kebab restaurants don't need trucks. They've got their own establishments open to the streets.
Same for the Asians, Mex-Tex and all.

Let's be honest, a truck is nothing much comfy to serve one's customers. You can't even sit at peace to have your meal.
You have to find a street bench or something, or downright swallow it by standing and walking.
Not so cool, you'll admit.

You know, it is healthier to sit and take a little time to chew and swallow one's meal.
That might well be a fair reason for this regulation.

That may work in Paris but it's a problem in Chicago for the following reasons:

1. Chicago is very centralized. The jobs, the tourists, etc
2. The rents for downtown area retail are often way too high for a mom n pop establishment
3. If you look online, many people who visit Chicago think it's great, but don't have much of a sense of its deep ethnic variety mostly because many visitors do not venture outside of downtown into the neighborhoods
4. #3 would be improved upon if more food trucks were allowed to operate in the central area

the urban politician · #65 Posted **May 23, 2019, 6:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Ugh@those upscale salad places. Theyre like everywhere.

It's hard to get excited about a salad

Obadno · #66 Posted **May 23, 2019, 6:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician

It's hard to get excited about a salad

It depends on how much meat is on it.

Chef · #67 Posted **May 23, 2019, 6:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

do you know if that's a lot or a little compared to the average US city?

i ask because in chicago we only have about 65 food trucks due to the city's relatively burdensome restrictions on food truck operations.

but i go back and forth on chicago's approach. on the one hand it would be nice to have more convenient options, but on the other hand the restrictions probably do help some of the city's multitudes of smaller mom n' pop ethnic places stay viable as businesses.

There are a little over a hundred in Minneapolis which has half of San Francisco's population so it looks like Chicago has an unusually low number. A lot of the food trucks here are owned by mom and pop restaurants out in the neighborhoods to sell their food to downtown office workers.

Crawford · #68 Posted **May 23, 2019, 6:26 PM**

There are an estimated 12,000 street food vendors in NYC, though the city officially licenses 6,000. This includes food trucks and street food carts (both are ubiquitous but the latter is far more numerous).

homebucket · #69 Posted **May 23, 2019, 6:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mousquet

Let's be honest, a truck is nothing much comfy to serve one's customers. You can't even sit at peace to have your meal.
You have to find a street bench or something, or downright swallow it by standing and walking.
Not so cool, you'll admit.

You know, it is healthier to sit and take a little time to chew and swallow one's meal.
That might well be a fair reason for this regulation.

Tell that to the thriving street food/night market scene in Asia. It's one of the first things I miss when I come back to the States. The street food scene here is pretty much nonexistent.

homebucket · #70 Posted **May 23, 2019, 6:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

do you know if that's a lot or a little compared to the average US city?

i ask because in chicago we only have about 65 food trucks due to the city's relatively burdensome restrictions on food truck operations.

but i go back and forth on chicago's approach. on the one hand it would be nice to have more convenient options, but on the other hand the restrictions probably do help some of the city's multitudes of smaller mom n' pop ethnic places stay viable as businesses.

It's probably higher than average for the US, but even then I wouldn't say it's something to brag about, especially when you compare it to the night markets of Taipei, some of which have 500+ food stalls in a single market, in a city that has up to 15 such markets.

Pedestrian · #71 Posted **May 23, 2019, 6:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket

Tell that to the thriving street food/night market scene in Asia. It's one of the first things I miss when I come back to the States. The street food scene here is pretty much nonexistent.

That, of course, is due to the more rigid health inspection/approval laws. I don't know the truth of it--I do know I got sicker than a dog in Thailand--but eating from streetfood vendors in Asia is risky or so we are warned.

It's certainly possible to have safe streetfood but almost no city wants to hire and pay the number of personnel it would take to ride herd on them. Food trucks have a higher barrier to entry because the trucks themselves aren't as cheap as a push cart.

In Arizona, you do find some "street food" near historic sites on Indian land such as at some of the mssions around Tucson. Mostly they sell Native American specialties like fry bread and some Mexican streetfood. I assume they can escape regulation by the "palefaces".

Pedestrian · #72 Posted **May 23, 2019, 6:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket

It's probably higher than average for the US, but even then I wouldn't say it's something to brag about, especially when you compare it to the night markets of Taipei, some of which have 500+ food stalls in a single market, in a city that has up to 15 such markets.

The closest equivalent to the Asian "nightmarkets" may not be food trucks but "farmers' markets", at least in SF. The one on weekends around the Ferry Building not only sells the usual produce and artisanal groceries but also streetfood for immediate consumption:

https://cuesa.org/markets/ferry-plaz...arket-thursday

Such markets out in the neighborhoods aren't as rich in prepared food vendors but those do show up at every "street fair" and nearly every neighborhood has one of those periodically.

mt_climber13 · #73 Posted **May 23, 2019, 7:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Did you move there from another part of California or country?

I'm asking because even though you may be able to tolerate it, I think it is a ridiculous routine that someone with a high income would need to go through in order to save money. It would make a little more sense if you have structural reasons for being in Sacramento, other than saving money.

Yeah I agree.. I got family and my partner is here. I was born and raised in Northern California. I wouldn't consider doing the commute otherwise. I moved from SF back in 2012 and have been living in Sacramento in between a two year stint in Monterey earning my master's degree in Computer Science. Sacramento is the last vestige in California of what could be considered affordable, thought it was much more affordable back in 2012.

mt_climber13 · #74 Posted **May 23, 2019, 7:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician

That may work in Paris but it's a problem in Chicago for the following reasons:

1. Chicago is very centralized. The jobs, the tourists, etc
2. The rents for downtown area retail are often way too high for a mom n pop establishment
3. If you look online, many people who visit Chicago think it's great, but don't have much of a sense of its deep ethnic variety mostly because many visitors do not venture outside of downtown into the neighborhoods
4. #3 would be improved upon if more food trucks were allowed to operate in the central area

Where are the good Polish restaurants in Chicago?? Never been, but want to take a trip out there very soon. When's the best time of year to go?

There was an excellent Polish restaurant in San Francisco called Old Krakow that closed several years ago. Damn I miss that place. Other than that I don't know of any Polish restaurants in California.

dimondpark · #75 Posted **May 23, 2019, 7:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician

It's hard to get excited about a salad

I had a pretty good one the other day but I kept thinking "this would be awesome with a steak".

Steely Dan · #76 Posted **May 23, 2019, 7:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mt_climber13

Where are the good Polish restaurants in Chicago?

staropolska on milwaukee in logan square is very good, and closer to downtown than the majority of polish restaurants that are located further out on the NW and SW sides.

if you're looking for a place in a more polish feeling neighborhood head out to belmont/central.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mt_climber13

Never been, but want to take a trip out there very soon. When's the best time of year to go?

avoid december through march for best results.

californians don't seem to take too well to midwest winters.

october is my favorite time of year in chicago.

it's typically a little cooler and drier, and still mostly sunny before the november gloom sets in.

Obadno · #77 Posted **May 23, 2019, 8:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mt_climber13

Where are the good Polish restaurants in Chicago?? Never been, but want to take a trip out there very soon. When's the best time of year to go?

There was an excellent Polish restaurant in San Francisco called Old Krakow that closed several years ago. Damn I miss that place. Other than that I don't know of any Polish restaurants in California.

September/October is the best time of year in Chicago

Pedestrian · #78 Posted **May 23, 2019, 9:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mt_climber13

Where are the good Polish restaurants in Chicago?? Never been, but want to take a trip out there very soon. When's the best time of year to go?

There was an excellent Polish restaurant in San Francisco called Old Krakow that closed several years ago. Damn I miss that place. Other than that I don't know of any Polish restaurants in California.

Chicago has a sizeable neighborhood full of them as I recall from my last visit too long ago to remember the name of the excellent where I ate--maybe it was Belmont/Central mentioned by Steely Dan. I just remember the street was lined with places. I got there on the El.

SF has no Polish neighborhood but it does have a Russian neighborhood as you may know in the outer Richmond and a lot of restaurants and delis there styling themselves as "European" so they sell more than purely Russian foods.

sopas ej · #79 Posted **May 23, 2019, 10:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimondpark

I had a pretty good one the other day but I kept thinking "this would be awesome with a steak".

Oh I love a good salad. Sometimes, that's all I want for dinner.

And I love the salads that you get at Japanese restaurants. Their salad dressing is often very good.

mt_climber13 · #80 Posted **May 23, 2019, 11:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Chicago has a sizeable neighborhood full of them as I recall from my last visit too long ago to remember the name of the excellent where I ate--maybe it was Belmont/Central mentioned by Steely Dan. I just remember the street was lined with places. I got there on the El.

SF has no Polish neighborhood but it does have a Russian neighborhood as you may know in the outer Richmond and a lot of restaurants and delis there styling themselves as "European" so they sell more than purely Russian foods.

I did find a Polish deli on Geary.
Cafe Europa on California st. is excellent.