Has the BRT been a Colossal Failure?

[DirtWednesday]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

The engineers know. Funding, get funding. That's up to the politicians. We actually do have functioning expressways. No freeways though.

This is true. But how many lights does it take to remove the 'expressway' from the designation? Is Kenaston at the shopping corridor considered an expressway? Lag at nairn to Concordia? Bishop is several lights too many for convenience.

[DirtWednesday]

So true about pre-board payments. PLEASE make this happen!

Hey, while we're all blowing millions of dollars on dreams, how about taking the Graham mall bus corridor underground leaving topside as pedestrian only like they had planned 20 years ago!

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by DirtWednesday

So true about pre-board payments. PLEASE make this happen!

Hey, while we're all blowing millions of dollars on dreams, how about taking the Graham mall bus corridor underground leaving topside as pedestrian only like they had planned 20 years ago!

That is a beautiful idea. I could get behind that. This city is quite fond of underpasses just think of it as a really long underpass.

[esquire]

A Graham Avenue bus subway is a novel idea (sure would make the wintertime waits for buses more pleasant) but I don't recall that idea ever being floated... at least it wasn't part of any discussion that I recall from when the Transit Mall was first being developed around 93-94.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by DirtWednesday

This is true. But how many lights does it take to remove the 'expressway' from the designation? Is Kenaston at the shopping corridor considered an expressway? Lag at nairn to Concordia? Bishop is several lights too many for convenience.

Kenason is NOT an expressway. Sometimes I actually bang my head against the wall as hard as I can when I think of what could have been. the City could have made Kenaston an expressway from Polo Park to the Perimeter. Instead in their infinite wisdom, they did not make Sterling Lyon a overpass. They should have done this with McGillivary and nearly all points in Waverley West as well.

If you want to see expressways, come to Calgary, and drive down Glenmore Trail, or Crowchild Trail. Deerfoot is a legitimate freeway. So is Stoney Trail.

[esquire]

Like many major Winnipeg routes, Kenaston straddles the line somewhere between major arterial and actual expressway.

You'd probably have a hard time finding routes around here that actually do meet the general criteria for an expressway... maybe the Perimeter, Bishop Grandin, Lagimodiere north of Dugald... um...

[DirtWednesday]

Originally Posted by esquire

A Graham Avenue bus subway is a novel idea (sure would make the wintertime waits for buses more pleasant) but I don't recall that idea ever being floated... at least it wasn't part of any discussion that I recall from when the Transit Mall was first being developed around 93-94.

Before the transitway, many cities became enamored with Curitiba. Its pedestrian mall to its rapid transit. There was an idea to shutdown graham to vehicles and create a bustling pedestrian mall with shops and patios all the way down. We ended up removing a couple lanes and adding bus only segments. Winnipeg

Maybe I dreamed that up, I don't know, it was the 90's.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by DirtWednesday

This is true. But how many lights does it take to remove the 'expressway' from the designation? Is Kenaston at the shopping corridor considered an expressway? Lag at nairn to Concordia? Bishop is several lights too many for convenience.

You're right. Not sure what spacing would be considered expressway. Not the 2 mile spacing for a Interstate type freeway. Anyways, we're grasping at straws haha

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by esquire

A Graham Avenue bus subway is a novel idea (sure would make the wintertime waits for buses more pleasant) but I don't recall that idea ever being floated... at least it wasn't part of any discussion that I recall from when the Transit Mall was first being developed around 93-94.

That would be a fantastic idea. Imagine connecting from Winnipeg Square, and then continue on all the way through Graham Mall.

I'd like to say it's a missed oppurtunity, but somehow, I don't think it is. If this idea were going into fruition, some major modifications on each end of Graham Mall would be required.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by MG922

People seem to forget that the dogleg allows for faster operation of busses.

Didn't they try to convince Winston Smith that "War is Peace"? He was intelligent enough not to buy into it.

• Video Link

• Video Link

I believe that 2014 Mayoral candidate David Sanders, was poisoined/murdered in some way because he spoke out against the BRT "dogleg" route that the 'elite" like Shindleman want to push on us. But no one writes about this.

• Video Link

CBC Manitoba
Aug. 2015

David Sanders stirs up rapid transit expropriation hearing
The city objected to the former mayoral candidate's appearance at the hearing



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...ring-1.3203252

[Roger Strong]

Originally Posted by DirtWednesday

Hey, while we're all blowing millions of dollars on dreams, how about taking the Graham mall bus corridor underground leaving topside as pedestrian only like they had planned 20 years ago!

One of the problems with this is that the arena is in the way.

Like Eaton's before it, the basement extends out under the sidewalks. And like
Eaton's before it, on the south side the basement extends out under Graham
to City Place. It looks to be storage and office for the truck unloading area.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

1. Key stops/stations (Graham Mall, Osborne Station) don't allow for passing, leading to delays and bus bunching

(Alex Jones voice) But but but ... that was one of the sellling points of BRT... that it would be cheaper to have a widened road so that buses could pass a disabled (non-working) bus and that you'd have to install and maintain a switcher track to allow a train to bypass a disabled train.

Winnipeggers were sold and continue to be sold a corrupted "bill of goods" that no city should have been allowed to take on. But I guess it's got something to do with having New Flyer here or some silly thing that we don't know.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by DirtWednesday

BRT will never be converted to LRT. The only way that will happen is if somehow Red River Gumbo is suddenly worth more than oil and we turn into the next Dubai over night.

Originally Posted by DirtWednesday

So true about pre-board payments. PLEASE make this happen!

Hey, while we're all blowing millions of dollars on dreams, how about taking the Graham mall bus corridor underground leaving topside as pedestrian only like they had planned 20 years ago!

See bolded answer above...what's good for the goose... You basically answered your own question DirtWednesday. LOL

If the "Red River Gumbo" excuse were pertinent to why we don't have rapid transit in metropolitan Winnipeg, then developers would be scared off by the risk of their buildings falling into this "gumbo". Buildings such as 360 Main, 360 Portage Ave. (Hydro Tower), 330 Portage Ave. (orig. Bank of Montreal then NewPort Centre), the Delta Hotel, the Raddisson Hotel, the Fairmont Hotel, the Richardson Bld., 333 Main St. (MTS Place), 7 and 11 Evergreen Pl., TD Centre, TNS, Glasshouse, 300 Assiniboine, 55 Nassau...

Further out, we'd not have Kiltartan Towers (the hirises near Polo), the Holiday Inn South in Ft. Garry, the hirises of Niakwa and the hirise apts. near Dakota St. both in St. Vital. The mid-rises along Portage Ave. in St. James, Birchwood Inn in Assiniboia, etc... The new hirise apt. complex in North Kildonan, the hirise apts. on Goulet near Safeway in St. Boniface.

The list goes on. Nothing taller than perhaps a 3-storey walkup would exist here.

All because of "Red River Gumbo" being an issue. Ya Right!




What do they call it when the excuses don't bear truth? Isn't that a "straw man argument"?

[WolselyMan]

I think the whole scope of our BRT's failure will become fully exposed to everyone in all it's ugliness the minute the second leg opens.

We'll note how the time savings on the dogleg clocks in only at 2 minutes.

We'll see how empty all of the half dozen stations that we've squeezed ridiculously close to each other are and how devoid of reason they are for people to be there in the first place.

We'll start wondering why we didn't even think to add an interchange loop for the McGillivray overpass, as well as bishop Grandin. Maybe we might start recalculating how much money could have been redirected from the construction of expensive shiny stations into actually building grade separated connections between the line and the street grid. Maybe then the empty bus going to Whyte Ridge could at the very least take advantage of the longer route chosen. You know. Something that was touted as ONE OF THE BENEFITS OF THE PARKER-HYDRO LANDS ROUTE?

We'll start to ask ourselves if giving one of the few natural wetlands left in the city a giant blow to the head was worth 2 minutes worth of commute time to the university, and the 450 million dollar price tag that came along with it.

At this point, the best possible scenario that will come out of this is that Winnipeg's second leg of our southwest corridor will gain fame as the most embarrassing public transit project in the country since Edmonton's light rail. We need to become the laughing stock of the country, so that every other city can learn from the mistakes we made. It'll also motivate our city council to launch a professional investigation into the competence and qualifications of our city planning department. Only humiliation on a national scale will get us to finally learn from a mistake.

[LilZebra]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[jmt18325]

OOh, nice, a typical Winnipeg self hate thread. I don't even know why I bother anymore.

[WolselyMan]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

OOh, nice, a typical Winnipeg self hate thread. I don't even know why I bother anymore.

I don't hate Winnipeg. I hate incoherent and half-assed city planning projects that only someone with severe insomnia could come up with designs for.

I care about this city. I care about Winnipeg incredibly deeply and passionately. And any Kindergartner can understand that part of caring about any place, or person thing involves pointing out it's flaws and it's shortcomings. In fact that's usually the majority of what caring about something consists of. So please don't pull off that "stop being so negative!" routine on me.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Roger Strong

One of the problems with this is that the arena is in the way.

Like Eaton's before it, the basement extends out under the sidewalks. And like
Eaton's before it, on the south side the basement extends out under Graham
to City Place. It looks to be storage and office for the truck unloading area.

That's neat. I did that drawing back in the day. Was a bitch to do with the computers of the time. Memories. Thanks for posting it. The seating capacity for hockey was fudged to get over 15,000.

[robertocarlos]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

OOh, nice, a typical Winnipeg self hate thread. I don't even know why I bother anymore.

We're not happy with being rail-roaded by Bowman. The BRT and now the dog-park. Is he a dictator? Why do we elect bad mayors?

[Only The Lonely..]

Winnipeg definitely did it the shit way.

It's not as if it's going to be any cheaper to build a rail system in 30 years from now.

There's this stupid logic in Winnipeg that if you drag a project out over 62 years and multiple studies, and N-Phases, that you are somehow saving money.

We could have built a subway system for hundreds of millions instead of tens of billions 50 years ago.

Career politicians are to blame.