SAN ANTONIO | Urban Core Development Thread

[kornbread]

Most Vidorra condos up for auction bought
...and Vidorra's developer

The good news: there is interest. The bad news: the amount to build exceeds willing to pay.

I kind of worry about the overbuilding of apartments, the lack of people actually putting roots down, and the long term development of downtown neighborhoods.

[STLtoSA]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

Thanks. I'll go with those dates and list it as 11 floors. When I saw that the Google aerial images hadn't updated to after it had been completed, I figured the streetview images wouldn't be either. Only the 1604 images show it.

I'm trying to get a complete building height list for San Antonio. I'm up to 99 buildings so far, and I know there are many many more to list. I feel like I've been visiting San Antonio the last few days since I've been using Google maps to find them.

I have a list of 201 buildings over 65 feet tall. I used pictommetry measurement tools for buildings that did not have a height listed. We use this data in the Dispatch system for locations that require a "Highrise" response in the case of a structure fire.

[WorldTexas]

Originally Posted by kornbread

Most Vidorra condos up for auction bought
...and Vidorra's developer

The good news: there is interest. The bad news: the amount to build exceeds willing to pay.

I kind of worry about the overbuilding of apartments, the lack of people actually putting roots down, and the long term development of downtown neighborhoods.

Well the income level to support expensive condo purchases still isn't there.

But why the concern about over supply? The apartments seem to be getting leased out pretty quickly and there's not a large glut of projects in development from what I see. The 1800 just opened, Mosiac & Tobin deliver later this year, and the only big projects that look to be opening next year are Big Tex and River House. That seems well staggered to me, but then again I'm not a leasing specialist.

There was an interview with the developers of 1010 S. Flores and they expected to be fully leased by summer and I hear the Peanut Factory Lofts expect the same thing when they open next year. So I'm going to stay optimistic on that front.

As for putting down roots, are you seeing a lot of transient activity by the new apartment residents?

[kornbread]

Originally Posted by WorldTexas

As for putting down roots, are you seeing a lot of transient activity by the new apartment residents?

No, there is certainly every reason for optimism with everything that is happening. I'm not in leasing with any inside information. Just a casual observer who feels like there should be a more favorable balance between leasing and owning in the current projects proposed and in development at this point.

It could be that it's still early in the game; San Antonio does seem to have its own pace.

[Formus]

When the Vidorra auction was announced a few months ago, the EN article said that, according to the Vidorra's website, 70% of the units had been sold, which jives with what the big banner on the building said.

The 20-story Vidorra, near Sunset Station, opened its doors in 2009 in the midst of the Great Recession, and claims on its website that it has sold about 70 percent of its 146 condo units, a handful of which are for rent.

But today's article says this:

The sales will take the occupancy rate to more than 73 percent, which transfers control from the developer to the homeowners association.

The numbers don't add up, which almost certainly means the Vidorra was exaggerating with their 70% number back then. I don't suppose that would come as a big shock to anyone, but it'd be nice if the EN would clarify a bit.

[sirkingwilliam]

Originally Posted by Formus

When the Vidorra auction was announced a few months ago, the EN article said that, according to the Vidorra's website, 70% of the units had been sold, which jives with what the big banner on the building said.




But today's article says this:



The numbers don't add up, which almost certainly means the Vidorra was exaggerating with their 70% number back then. I don't suppose that would come as a big shock to anyone, but it'd be nice if the EN would clarify a bit.

It could merely be a typo. It's more than likely 93%, not 73%.

[miaht82]

Originally Posted by kornbread

I kind of worry about the overbuilding of apartments, the lack of people actually putting roots down, and the long term development of downtown neighborhoods.

I'd take this scenario of the transient population in DT over the previous 40-50 years of it which was pretty non-existant.

It's still early in the "wave", I think. Wait til people live DT for a couple of years, test out the area, then when people make the choice (to move farther out or stay nearby), they might decide to pick one of the surrounding neighborhoods to put down some roots. Will 100% of people choose to do that? Will 40%? Besides the regular flow of people that have picked our urban neighborhoods over the burbs without testing it out by living in an apartment first, I'd be happy with a couple dozen or so people (or couples) out of the "rental bunch", choosing to stay in town each year. It would increase the rate that we've had for at least as long as the neighborhoods have been on the upswing, and if they choose to stay in town, they'd know what they're getting into.

Let's also not forget that towhhomes and condos have been trickling in. I know it's been a while since Judson Candy Factory Lofts came online, but since then, Alteza and Vidorra have came in and have sold more than 100 between the two, not alot, but lets not discount those 100, even at the higher price point. East Quincy is going to bring in 25 units near Pearl and Terramark's Cevallos Modern was pretty successful (at a lower price point) and they are rolling out 75+ more units based on that success:

from mysa.com

Since completing Cevallos Modern, Terramark has started work on Ogden Modern, an 11-unit townhome project near San Antonio College. The firm already has sold six units, and owners are expected to move in by the end of April.
In May, Terramark will start construction on Kendall Urban in Tobin Hill, Cherry Street Modern near the Hays Street Bridge, and Cevallos Urban down the street from the firm's initial project. In the summer, the firm is expected to start Uptown Modern and City View Modern, both of which are in Tobin Hill, and Westfort Villas, an upscale project off Broadway, just north of the Pearl Brewery.
Turner expects that townhomes will be better suited for San Antonio because they are more affordable than downtown condos and financing is easier to get.
“It's absolutely 100 percent about price point,” Turner said. “The cost of living in a condo is substantially more than someone buying a home at today's interest rates.”

Read more: http://www.mysanantonio.com/business...#ixzz2QgU44YKZ

Off the top of my head, I don't how many apartments have been moved into, or how many will be ready soon, but we might be looking at a 1:5 or 1:6, sale to rental ratio (for new units).
I'm just happy that we're talking about hundreds of "for sale" units and thousands of rentals; couldn't imagine that a decade ago. We still have a long way to go to catch up to the 14,000 extremely short-term rentals (hotel rooms) in and around the core, but we have good pace.

[miaht82]

Originally Posted by Formus

When the Vidorra auction was announced a few months ago, the EN article said that, according to the Vidorra's website, 70% of the units had been sold, which jives with what the big banner on the building said.

The numbers don't add up, which almost certainly means the Vidorra was exaggerating with their 70% number back then. I don't suppose that would come as a big shock to anyone, but it'd be nice if the EN would clarify a bit.

From bizjournals:

Auction of Vidorra condos nets 36 sales
by Tricia Lynn Silva

Thirty six down. Three to go.
New York City-based auction house Sheldon Good & Co. has released the final numbers from its one-day, developer close-out auction for the Vidorra units.
Sheldon Good has sold 36 of the available 39 units. The condos sold for anywhere from $160,000 to $480,000.
They were originally priced from $184,000 to $699,000.
At the time of the auction, Vidorra was 70 percent sold.

This adds up now (kind of). 70% of 146 is 102. If 39 were left, that puts it at 141. So I guess a couple might've been sold since the banner went up (which was a while back) and this auction. There probably isn't any point in changing out the banner just to announce "73% sold".

[Formus]

a

[sirkingwilliam]

Does anyone know what the two apartment developments are at the bottom left?



This map seems to be fairly recent and lists the grocery store at the old car wash as well as River House.

[sirkingwilliam]

CPS Energy is close to relocating to RiverNorth in a swap that could lead to multi-family high rise.

CPS Energy has received a proposal that — if eventually approved by its board of trustees — would land the utility in a new home downtown and put its current Navarro Street headquarters and nearby properties in private hands.

The deal would free up prime real estate along the River Walk for redevelopment.

Lewis declined to disclose which CPS properties were part of the proposed swap. And she would neither identify the partnership that submitted the proposal nor a provide a timeline for the deal.

But five sources with knowledge of the proposal said the utility would move into two towers at 500 and 530 McCullough Avenue, space that AT&T Inc. vacated early last year. The properties are assessed at a combined $21 million.

Plans for the CPS property would include transforming the office space into apartments, sources said.

But others say the property could become a mixed-use development similar to the Pearl Brewery.

“In my opinion, the highest and best use would be a multifamily site,” said Larry Mendez, a senior vice president at Transwestern, a commercial real estate firm. However, he added: “That would make a freaking fantastic hotel, mixed-use site, literally half a block off the river.

“I do believe its prime for apartments with retail and (could include) some office. That's what the new wave (of development) that's coming will look like.”

Mendez said he didn't know the details of the proposal, but he was aware a deal is percolating.

Read more

[UrbanTrance]

^^ That's not too far from the Univision site. It'd be nice to get a lot of development action in that area.

[adtobias]

There is a lot of buildings going up around SAC.

[WorldTexas]

Looks like that idea of an entertainment bridge between Pearl and downtown/Sunset Station might be gaining traction. Plans for 52 apartments, a food truck park, a beer garden, and a rooftop wine bar, all between Cherry, Burnet, Burleson, and I-37.

Plus another possible apartment/mixed-use, but on a five year timeline.

The article also mentions that the Alamo Brewery case goes to court next month. I'm really hoping that one gets decided in favor of Alamo.

Read more: http://www.expressnews.com/news/loca...de-4489983.php

[sirkingwilliam]

300-unit apartment development planned for SoFlo.

3N Group LLC is completing work on 1010 South Flores, a new 46-unit residential development. The company’s president, Guillermo Nicolas, says there are preliminary plans for another, much larger project that would be located in that same SoFlo area. That development could include as many as 300 residential units and some 70,000 square feet of commercial space.

Read More.

[Keep-SA-Lame]

I wonder where the 300 unit project is going to be located?

[miaht82]

Well doing a little research...

I found that Mr. Nicolas owns 304 and 308 S. Flores, or at least his family trust does. Last Oct. 4th, the property across the street (321 S. Main) was sold to LAZ and coincidentally, a few days later, Mr. Nicolas (3N) acquired 304 S. Flores from LAZ (parking). 304 is a tiny bit smaller than the Vistana lot... just saying.

Not sure if this is where, just throwing it out there. This is what my 5 minutes of research led me to assume; I couldn't find another property match for them in "SoFlo" which this is, even though it might not be in what some consider the district itself.

Second thought is that SAHA or ACCD might be planning a move; or I might've taken Houston's remarks a little to literally

"There are a number of public buildings in that area that lend themselves to better uses.”

[sirkingwilliam]

350-unit apartment development coming to St. Mary's and Cesar Chavez. The Univision site.

http://www.sanantonio.gov/historic/D...sar_Chavez.pdf

[miaht82]

I gotta admit that I'm a bit disappointed. I know they have height restrictions on that site, but its a shame that the density is going to be so low, on such a big lot, that close to the core.

On the upside though, it is going to be 350 units very close to the core and right on the edge of Southtown; should add a bit more local foot traffic to the area. Even though it is not the "perfect" project, it is better than a tiny building and grasslands.

Originally Posted by Keep-SA-Lame

I wonder where the 300 unit project is going to be located?

On a related note... Mr. Nicolas, the topic of the earlier discussion has connections to this project (though maybe not directly).
from http://www.3ngroup.com/3n/about3n.html

Guillermo's Grandfather, Raoul Cortez was the pioneer of Spanish language radio and television in the U.S. (1946 & 1955 respectively) His Father, Emilio, Sr., along with two partners, built what is now Univision, the largest Spanish language television network and the first satellite interconnected network in the country opening doors for millions of Hispanics in the United States.

[adtobias]

What was the height restriction?