Soldier Shot, Parliament Hill Attacked - Page 22

travis3000 · #**421** Posted **Oct 25, 2014, 2:02 PM**

Guys, I work out at a military base 5 days a week (CFB Borden). People in uniform walking about all over. I can tell you, there has been zero security the past few years, and even in the wake of this event nothing has changed. People can drive in and out, no guard, no ID, no stopping. In fact, the military training gym doesn't even ID guests.

freeweed · #**422** Posted **Oct 25, 2014, 3:34 PM**

Guys, I need confirmation on a news item here:

Zehaf-Bibeau tried to rob a McDonald's - with a stick.

Ooooo, big scary terrorist we've got there Mr. Harper. The guy's a (possibly recovering) crack addict and just a little nuts. But somehow our freedoms are under attack by ISIS? What am I missing here?

Is this CTV just plain making shit up, or is what we're hearing from Ottawa 100% bullshit?

freeweed · #**423** Posted **Oct 25, 2014, 3:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by travis3000

Guys, I work out at a military base 5 days a week (CFB Borden). People in uniform walking about all over. I can tell you, there has been zero security the past few years, and even in the wake of this event nothing has changed. People can drive in and out, no guard, no ID, no stopping. In fact, the military training gym doesn't even ID guests.

Knowing very little about the military and military bases - is it safe to assume that they are some of the most well-armed places in the country?

I mean seriously - rampage killer goes nuts in a shopping mall: lots of people killed, until armed police arrive. Rampage killer goes nuts on a military base: he gets his ass blown away pretty damned quick by trained, armed soldiers. I don't mean that they walk around armed all day, but I'd assume that weapons are slightly more available to soldiers on base than they are the general population.

Or is that not the case?

logan5 · #**424** Posted **Oct 25, 2014, 4:01 PM**

If the information is correct, this guy was purposely trying to get arrested so he could get help with his drug dependency. He was in jail for a just short time, subsequent to that he ended up on the streets of the downtown east side. The mosque he was attending turned him away as well. This guy was trying to get help and was being turned away. Unfortunately this led to one final desperate act that ended an innocent persons life and his own life. No one really knows what exactly his motives were, but I'm pretty it wasn't political. My guess is this was his way of committing suicide.

kwoldtimer · #**425** Posted **Oct 25, 2014, 4:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeweed

Guys, I need confirmation on a news item here:

Zehaf-Bibeau tried to rob a McDonald's - with a stick.

Ooooo, big scary terrorist we've got there Mr. Harper. The guy's a (possibly recovering) crack addict and just a little nuts. But somehow our freedoms are under attack by ISIS? What am I missing here?

Is this CTV just plain making shit up, or is what we're hearing from Ottawa 100% bullshit?

That has been widely reported, but how it relates to his possible islamist radicalization is not known, or has not been reported to my knowledge.

lio45 · #**426** Posted **Oct 25, 2014, 4:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeweed

Knowing very little about the military and military bases - is it safe to assume that they are some of the most well-armed places in the country?

I mean seriously - rampage killer goes nuts in a shopping mall: lots of people killed, until armed police arrive. Rampage killer goes nuts on a military base: he gets his ass blown away pretty damned quick by trained, armed soldiers. I don't mean that they walk around armed all day, but I'd assume that weapons are slightly more available to soldiers on base than they are the general population.

Or is that not the case?

Obviously it is; a clear majority of people on a base will still be unarmed, but nearly all of them have the training to use a weapon and they are never too far away.

Doesn't even need to be a "base".

I've been a reservist for a few years and with my geeky group of friends we at some point in the past were wondering how we'd fare in a zombie apocalypse... obviously just a thought experiment just for fun... made me realize I was the only one who knew where, and even exactly which doors to try to get past, to quickly get our hands on good guns (not hunting ones) in downtown Sherbrooke (in the basement of the Sher-H armory on William St.)

And of course in a big base like Valcartier there's a LOT more interesting stuff available for survivors in a post-apocalyptic world.

(You'll note that the guy in St-Jean-sur-Richelieu did not attempt to attack the military base there, but rather waited until he found military personnel walking outside it.)

lio45 · #**427** Posted **Oct 25, 2014, 4:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by manny_santos

In Downtown Kingston, which is just steps from CFB Kingston, it is normal to see soldiers in uniform walking during the day. Since this week's shootings, there are fewer soldiers in uniform, but I have seen a few.

Contrary to what SHH says it's perfectly normal to be out in public in uniform.

Well, obviously, not just for fun while you're on vacation, but if you're in the civilian world on your way to or from your base or armory you'll stop for gas/food/etc. in uniform.

lio45 · #**428** Posted **Oct 25, 2014, 4:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeweed

Knowing very little about the military and military bases - is it safe to assume that they are some of the most well-armed places in the country?

Forgot to add -- the fact they're well-armed places actually goes both ways in terms of rampage probability.

For example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Fort_Hood_shooting

JHikka · #**429** Posted **Oct 25, 2014, 5:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeweed

Guys, I need confirmation on a news item here:

Zehaf-Bibeau tried to rob a McDonald's - with a stick.

Ooooo, big scary terrorist we've got there Mr. Harper. The guy's a (possibly recovering) crack addict and just a little nuts. But somehow our freedoms are under attack by ISIS? What am I missing here?

Is this CTV just plain making shit up, or is what we're hearing from Ottawa 100% bullshit?

It's been reported in recent days that Zehaf-Bibeau tried to gain a passport in order to travel to Libya and/or other ME countries. Alternatively, he's attempted gaining a Libyan passport due to his father (who is currently in Libya and fought against Gadhafi forces). Although this isn't a direct tie with ISIL like St-Jean-sur-Richelieu, it goes along the same line as Islamification and the dangers extremism can bring.

To highlight this, Zehaf-Bibeau isn't even one of the 90 Canadians that the RCMP/CSIS have on their watchlist.

freeweed · #**430** Posted **Oct 25, 2014, 6:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

It's been reported in recent days that Zehaf-Bibeau tried to gain a passport in order to travel to Libya and/or other ME countries. Alternatively, he's attempted gaining a Libyan passport due to his father (who is currently in Libya and fought against Gadhafi forces). Although this isn't a direct tie with ISIL like St-Jean-sur-Richelieu, it goes along the same line as Islamification and the dangers extremism can bring.

So wait a second - wanting to travel to the ME means you're involved in extremist Islam? I have some Jewish friends who would like to speak about that.

Or is it fighting against Gadhafi? Because from what I remember, he was a brutal dictator and we celebrated those who resisted him. Are they now all linked to ISIS?

Kinda confused about how every piece of evidence is being used to point to terrorism, where not too long before none of this lined up as such.

Calgarian · #**431** Posted **Oct 25, 2014, 6:25 PM**

Canadian Soldiers (past and present) standing vigil at the Cenotaph in Central Memorial Park in Calgary this morning.

manny_santos · #**432** Posted **Oct 25, 2014, 8:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by travis3000

Guys, I work out at a military base 5 days a week (CFB Borden). People in uniform walking about all over. I can tell you, there has been zero security the past few years, and even in the wake of this event nothing has changed. People can drive in and out, no guard, no ID, no stopping. In fact, the military training gym doesn't even ID guests.

I've been to CFB Kingston once, when I went to volunteer at a (non-military) event at the golf course located on the base. There was virtually no security: I drove onto the base, no stops, no checkpoints, and I parked wherever I wanted. Later that day the volunteers went to one of the messes for a banquet, and we all went from one side of the base to the other without any security.

I have also been on the RMC campus a couple of times. Again, no visible security whatsoever.

Razor · #**433** Posted **Oct 25, 2014, 8:26 PM**

^ Canada's lackadaisical attitude towards security in some ways was an anomaly.Not that that's a bad thing.We just have to take security more seriously now and be in step with what a lot of the free world has been doing for awhile now..On another note, I'm glad the jingoism has died down now..I'm just as patriotic as the next person, but I'm glad things have started moving forward and we can start putting this tragic event behind us and learn something from it.

ScreamingViking · #**434** Posted **Oct 25, 2014, 9:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeweed

Is "God Bless Canada" even a thing? I don't think I've ever heard anyone say it in my entire life. Not surprising that Harper would, but still. Just seems so... not Canadian. Maybe I just don't hang in the right circles.

I think I see what you're saying, but when we all sing "God keep our land glorious and free" in the national anthem I guess we're channeling the same kind of thing.

Those who get in a twist over the innocent use of "prayer" in a supportive comment must really be pained about O Canada.

kwoldtimer · #**435** Posted **Oct 25, 2014, 9:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

I think I see what you're saying, but when we all sing "God keep our land glorious and free" in the national anthem I guess we're channeling the same kind of thing.

Those who get in a twist over the innocent use of "prayer" in a supportive comment must really be pained about O Canada.

Not to mention the Constitution Act, 1982, Section 1 of which reads:

Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law

Martin Mtl · #**436** Posted **Oct 25, 2014, 9:41 PM**

That thread is a whole lot less interesting now that Rousseau is gone. A shame really.

freeweed · #**437** Posted **Oct 25, 2014, 9:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Not to mention the Constitution Act, 1982, Section 1 of which reads:

Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law

So bizarre to read things like that, when they're patently untrue. I guess it's much like how the Queen is officially our head of state, even though she has sweet fuck all to do with the running of the country.

I wonder if the Greeks mention Zeus in their constitution?

VANRIDERFAN · #**438** Posted **Oct 26, 2014, 12:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeweed

Knowing very little about the military and military bases - is it safe to assume that they are some of the most well-armed places in the country?

I mean seriously - rampage killer goes nuts in a shopping mall: lots of people killed, until armed police arrive. Rampage killer goes nuts on a military base: he gets his ass blown away pretty damned quick by trained, armed soldiers. I don't mean that they walk around armed all day, but I'd assume that weapons are slightly more available to soldiers on base than they are the general population.

Or is that not the case?

All I am going to say that the only military pers walking around the base armed are the Military Police. Yes there is alot of ammo around but it is "TIGHTLY CONTROLLED".

VANRIDERFAN · #**439** Posted **Oct 26, 2014, 12:19 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeweed

So wait a second - wanting to travel to the ME means you're involved in extremist Islam? I have some Jewish friends who would like to speak about that.

Or is it fighting against Gadhafi? Because from what I remember, he was a brutal dictator and we celebrated those who resisted him. Are they now all linked to ISIS?

Kinda confused about how every piece of evidence is being used to point to terrorism, where not too long before none of this lined up as such.

It was the Libyans who refused him the passport. They even informed the appropriate Canadian Authorities.
As for the watch list, the RCMP Commissioner mentioned that he could watch all 90 24/7 but he would half to strip many other police duties to accomplish that goal.

VANRIDERFAN · #**440** Posted **Oct 26, 2014, 12:29 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeweed

So bizarre to read things like that, when they're patently untrue. I guess it's much like how the Queen is officially our head of state, even though she has sweet fuck all to do with the running of the country.

I wonder if the Greeks mention Zeus in their constitution?

I know I won't be very articulate in this response but I will give it a try.

With our constitutional monarchy, while it is true the crown has little to do with the day to day running of the country, it is the idea of the crown that allows our system to work. Unlike the states where the President is both the head of government and head of state, our PM is only the head of government of the day and all laws have to pass through the crown (a symbol I agree) to get royal ascent into law.
Blah, blah, blah.
suffice to say, with the deadlock in the US Senate which seems to have no solution, if things get really bad here, the crown can step in and tell the PM that he does not have the confidence of the house and they will dissolve parliament and call an election. Let the people sort it out.