Perimeter Highway | Winnipeg

[Reignman]

The south perimeter needs a lot more than resurfacing done. I'm sitting on it right now, being held up by a train just east of St Annes, along with about 500 other cars. Such a joke

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Reignman

The south perimeter needs a lot more than resurfacing done. I'm sitting on it right now, being held up by a train just east of St Annes, along with about 500 other cars. Such a joke

The main north-south railway lines from Winnipeg to the US border (CP Emerson, CN Letellier lines) seem to have less than their fair share of grade separations as compared to the east-west CN and CP main lines. I often see trains backing up traffic on McGillivray, Bison, Fermor, Bishop Grandin and the South Perimeter.

Back in the 80s and 90s everyone thought rail lines were going to keep disappearing. But now that it's clear they aren't going anywhere, it might be time for MIT to add a rail overpass to the list of improvements to the south Perimeter.

[cllew]

The CP Emerson line back in 2010 had an average of 4 trains a day with a track speed of 40 mph. Train length is over 1 mile long usually according to a Transport Canada accident report back then.

I see more tank car only trains moving along the line since this report so there would be more highway delays.

Also have you noticed that neither the high speed high volume Fermor, and Bishop Grandon crossings are gate controlled only bells and lights, while the Perimeter south, Cottonwood, Autumnmwood and Marion crossings are full bells lights and gates.

[esquire]

^ CP Emerson is treated like some sort of lightly-used rural branch line when it comes to warning signals and grade separations, but there is arguably enough rail traffic on it these d ays to justify better crossing infrastructure (including underpasses), especially on major high-speed routes like the Perimeter, Fermor and Bishop Grandin.

Although that being said, once the Plessis underpass is completed the next priority will certainly be Waverley, which is a far busier street than Plessis. Plessis and Waverley will tie up local underpass dollars for the better part of the next decade, I'm sure.

[bomberjet]

There's no initiative to upgrade any of Winnipeg's expressway's (yes they are expressways, but not freeways). It just seems to be a complete non-issue with anybody at the City for some reason. I'm sure if the City actually wanted to, they could find some money to get some of the projects on Bishop/Lag completed. Little by little.

I'm hoping and praying when the next Marion study open house comes up, which should be in the next month or two, they moved the diamond that was smashed in at Archibald and Marion to Lag and Dugald. Only makes sense! I made it known in my response to the open house how stupid they were for doing that! Put the underpass of the track in sure. But no need for an interchange there, stupidity..

[esquire]

^ I got a chuckle out of that Marion/Archibald proposal. Entire decades go by between the construction of interchanges in this town, and which road is slated to get a full-on 401-worthy beast of an interchange? Archibald, naturally! It is to weep.

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I got a chuckle out of that Marion/Archibald proposal. Entire decades go by between the construction of interchanges in this town, and which road is slated to get a full-on 401-worthy beast of an interchange? Archibald, naturally! It is to weep.

Mind-blowing how that intersection tops the city's priority list over rush hour nightmares like Bishop/St. Mary's, Bishop/Waverley and Lag/Fermor!

The only positive I take out of it is that the word 'interchange' actually DOES exist in the City of Winnipeg's vocabulary. I hope now they start throwing that word around more often!

[Biff]

I am in no way in defense of anything the COW does in terms of infrastructure but the reasoning for this PROPOSED interchange at Archibald is - the rail line is entirely too close to the intersection of Archibald and Marion to create an intersection to new safety standards. As well, when spending the money to build a new 4 lane divided Hwy through the area and the COW is currently trying to grade separate some of their major rail crossings this makes sense. I get the arguments that this seems like a poor choice to build a grade separated interchange in light of some of the other more needy areas - Bishop, Lag, Route 90 etc but it is essentially because of the rail line, not the intersection.

[esquire]

^ Oh yes, I wouldn't doubt that there is a legitimate engineering rationale behind the decision. There is just a certain irony that the first new City of Winnipeg-built interchange since Pembina/Bishop Grandin opened 24 years ago (!) could be on what amounts to a pair of low-speed arterial streets.

[Biff]

^^^ Then I think the reasoning is more that the COW is not spending any money at all on Lag/Bishop/Route 90 etc other than some resurfacing. it seems that the COW only does SOME things right when new infrastructure is involved (Bishop/Kenaston Flyover) although failed when connecting Chief Peguis to Lagimodiere.

After typing this it seems that the COW is allergic to making any kind of improvements to Lagimodiere for some reason.

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by Biff

After typing this it seems that the COW is allergic to making any kind of improvements to Lagimodiere for some reason.

It's funny cause you can see examples of when the city did do things right on Lagimodiere....rail underpass south of Marion, rail overpass south of Regent...that strange interchange at Concordia. But since the last of those projects was finished it seems the city has just totally given up on Lag. Unless there's some grand plan in the works to add a third lane and strategic grade separations along the route...but this is Winnipeg so chances of that are slim to none.

It's sad because Lag is such a dysfunctional, poorly maintained and ugly route...I find it very depressing. I came back to the city from Victoria Beach a few weeks ago...59 north of city is in great shape, paved shoulders in spots, interchanges at 44 and Birds Hill (in the middle of nowhere)...then once you enter the city the road becomes rough and dirty, gravel shoulders and medians full of gravel, mud, garbage and tire tracks...and of course the traffic lights. One would think it would be the opposite, where the city portion vs the rural portion of the highway is better maintained and more functional.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Reignman

It's funny cause you can see examples of when the city did do things right on Lagimodiere....rail underpass south of Marion, rail overpass south of Regent...that strange interchange at Concordia. But since the last of those projects was finished it seems the city has just totally given up on Lag. Unless there's some grand plan in the works to add a third lane and strategic grade separations along the route...but this is Winnipeg so chances of that are slim to none.

I'm pretty sure it was the Province that either built or paid for a substantial portion of all of the features you're referring to, before Lagimodiere was offloaded to the City sometime in the 1990s.

[cllew]

That is correct, the Provence paid the old Metro Corp to build Highway 59 through the city.

[bomberjet]

Here's two examples from Regina of intersections adjacent to rail crossings. The one at Lewvan seems to be newer than the one at Albert. So might be a better example of what they could build. Lewvan is an expressway too. They could get it done without the full blown interchange, IMO. Maybe I can attend the next open house and berate some engineers with these questions!

[esquire]

Shh, don't ruin our chances of getting the first city-built interchange since Bill Norrie was mayor!

[bomberjet]

Lol I'm on a war path to get that interchange moved to Lag! Come hell or high water!

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by Reignman

It's sad because Lag is such a dysfunctional, poorly maintained and ugly route...I find it very depressing. I came back to the city from Victoria Beach a few weeks ago...59 north of city is in great shape, paved shoulders in spots, interchanges at 44 and Birds Hill (in the middle of nowhere)...then once you enter the city the road becomes rough and dirty, gravel shoulders and medians full of gravel, mud, garbage and tire tracks...and of course the traffic lights.

It's not bad south of the city either. We usually do top-down hot dog runs to Lockport on nice weekend days but went south this last weekend because of the Lockport fair. 59 south is also pleasant and well maintained, although only two lanes.

Found a nice place to eat in Niverville.

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm pretty sure it was the Province that either built or paid for a substantial portion of all of the features you're referring to, before Lagimodiere was offloaded to the City sometime in the 1990s.

Ok that makes sense then. What a monumental mistake that was...not that I trust today's provincial governments to do much better than the city has, but I bet they would at least pony up for fully paved shoulders and maybe even a EB Bishop to SB Lag merge lane! I know expecting an expressway to expressway merge lane may be too much here in Winnipeg though

[cllew]

Highway construction standards have changed over the years.

If it was built now it would probably look different, but in 10 or 15 years the new members of this board at that time would be asking why did they do what they did.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Here's two examples from Regina of intersections adjacent to rail crossings. The one at Lewvan seems to be newer than the one at Albert. So might be a better example of what they could build. Lewvan is an expressway too. They could get it done without the full blown interchange, IMO. Maybe I can attend the next open house and berate some engineers with these questions!

But that's not a fair comparison.

The only way to get something like that in this particular situation is to basically wipe out half the neighborhood that these routes serve or re-route the whole thing , rail line and all, to the east , build service roads plus intersections, and THEN an underpass. I have no doubt that this is cheaper plus nobody has to lose their home or business.

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Lol I'm on a war path to get that interchange moved to Lag! Come hell or high water!

That won't happen. You can either get the Lag interchange or the Marion interchange. If the money were available then you could get both but the city figures (rightly) that no Lag interchange is going to be built without a realignment of Marion anyway. The trains keep traffic backed up far more at Archibald than the lights at Lag. So , as I said, what you want won't happen unless you can convince the city to build both.

Oh, and P.S. : You don't mean "berate" the engineers. You mean 'badger'. Berate means to sit there yelling at them. If you try the former then I guarantee you're going to walk out of there with your tail tucked between your legs.