Perimeter Highway | Winnipeg

[Biff]

Originally Posted by Reignman

That is fantastic news Biff! What is the next step after completion of functional design? Request for bids?

Still a bit of a long process. Functional Design is much like Programming for a building. It lays out what they want to do, areas where they need to obtain land or rights of way that need to be protected, services that need to be moved and structures and size of structures (interchanges of bridges) needed. It would then - if approved, go to preliminary and detailed design before it goes out to tender.

Still probably a couple of years at least before a tender hit the streets but definitely more positive news then hearing that the new government isn't interested in pursuing this project due to cost cutting measures.

[bomberjet]

Good news Biff. Was there anything in the new Provincial budget? I've been so busy the last few weeks I haven't paid much attention to anything..

Even though the road will be long, it has to start somewhere. Functional designs set the path forward on what will be built. I wonder if the Province would go to a P3 model for the reconstruction.

[esquire]

There are a lot of studies that have been kicking around since the 80s and 90s with no movement since ( https://www.gov.mb.ca/mit/hpd/pdf/fu...ocationmap.pdf ) ... hopefully this one progresses a little more quickly.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Good news Biff. Was there anything in the new Provincial budget? I've been so busy the last few weeks I haven't paid much attention to anything..

Even though the road will be long, it has to start somewhere. Functional designs set the path forward on what will be built. I wonder if the Province would go to a P3 model for the reconstruction.

The budget cut a very small amount from infrastructure for roads ($37M) but that's supposed to be due to inefficiencies that they've found. The budget apparently made P3s far easier. I have no problem with P3s.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Biff

Still a bit of a long process. Functional Design is much like Programming for a building. It lays out what they want to do, areas where they need to obtain land or rights of way that need to be protected, services that need to be moved and structures and size of structures (interchanges of bridges) needed. It would then - if approved, go to preliminary and detailed design before it goes out to tender.

Still probably a couple of years at least before a tender hit the streets but definitely more positive news then hearing that the new government isn't interested in pursuing this project due to cost cutting measures.

Follow up question Biff. When you say tender, is that tender for Prelim design/construction? Or two years before the functional design study rolls out? Or will MIT be undertaking the functional design themselves? One would think they already know what's needed as they do this sort of thing internally.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Follow up question Biff. When you say tender, is that tender for Prelim design/construction? Or two years before the functional design study rolls out? Or will MIT be undertaking the functional design themselves? One would think they already know what's needed as they do this sort of thing internally.

It's a big project so they are definitely going to an outside consultant for the Functional Design (FD). It sounds like this is the real deal this time. The FD would likely take a year starting hopefully in 2017 sometime. I was told it will likely be built in 3 phases so that my guess is there will be 3 different Detailed Designs and tenders pending funding approvals. My guess is speculation only but dealings have me believing that we could see the first construction tender in 2 years or so....again depending on political will (but again, this seems like the real deal this time). Undetermined and a wild card here is if, like the PC's have commented on their desire to utilize more P3's.

We shall see

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by Biff

It's a big project so they are definitely going to an outside consultant for the Functional Design (FD). It sounds like this is the real deal this time. The FD would likely take a year starting hopefully in 2017 sometime. I was told it will likely be built in 3 phases so that my guess is there will be 3 different Detailed Designs and tenders pending funding approvals. My guess is speculation only but dealings have me believing that we could see the first construction tender in 2 years or so....again depending on political will (but again, this seems like the real deal this time). Undetermined and a wild card here is if, like the PC's have commented on their desire to utilize more P3's.

We shall see

Having heard this from every single government my entire life about the south perimeter. I doubt anything will happen. Let's be honest. When all the studies of studies of studies are done. The time for re-election will be here. Then grand promises will be made. They won't get elected and we will have to deal with a new government. Just like we did with the Ndp and all their promises.


As for acquiring land. They have done that already. The only peice of land needed is the Ritchots peice on the south west corner of st Anne's. All three others they have. St Mary's they have all 4 corners.

So I'm really confused how it takes so long to acquire land they had acquired 20 years ago. I lived 22 years on the south perimeter hearing these same promises over and over.

[jmt18325]

Has there ever been a functional design study before?

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

Has there ever been a functional design study before?

I'm sure some government did one. There is probably the original one when the entire perimeter was thought out.

My prediction is 6 lanes. They keep the lights. It will be like rt90 by IKEA. That's how this city and province work. Maybe in 2025 they might put a diamond in.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

I'm sure some government did one. There is probably the original one when the entire perimeter was thought out.

My prediction is 6 lanes. They keep the lights. It will be like rt90 by IKEA. That's how this city and province work. Maybe in 2025 they might put a diamond in.

20025* when teleporting is the standard mode of transportation and we actually live on a different planet.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

I'm sure some government did one. There is probably the original one when the entire perimeter was thought out.

You don't know, in other words.

I predict that Highway 3 will get an interchange, and that there will be access consolidation. Beyond that, I'm not sure.

[optimusREIM]

I hope they do something at St Mary's

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

You don't know, in other words.

I predict that Highway 3 will get an interchange, and that there will be access consolidation. Beyond that, I'm not sure.

I'd love to see Hwy 3 get and interchange of some sort that isn't a set of lights.

[vjose32]

If you want interchanges and freeways built then you need to vote for someone who will actually spend money to do that and it ain't the Conservatives. I think the perimeter is fine for the most part however I think Waverly south should be rerouted to the Kenaston intersection instead of having 2 lights within such a short distance.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by vjose32

If you want interchanges and freeways built then you need to vote for someone who will actually spend money to do that and it ain't the Conservatives. I think the perimeter is fine for the most part however I think Waverly south should be rerouted to the Kenaston intersection instead of having 2 lights within such a short distance.

i think the plan is to do that when the st norbert bypass links up to kenaston. if that ever happens. but for now i totally agree. waverly doesnt deserve a set of lights to link up to the south.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by vjose32

If you want interchanges and freeways built then you need to vote for someone who will actually spend money to do that and it ain't the Conservatives. I think the perimeter is fine for the most part however I think Waverly south should be rerouted to the Kenaston intersection instead of having 2 lights within such a short distance.

The south perimeter is a death trap waiting to happen. The lights don't even have merge lanes. You just hope for the best.
When I lived just at the st Anne's lights. And this was 20 years ago. The amount of semis hitting cars there was insane.
The south side of the city is the busiest for commuter traffic and it takes way to much cross Canada semi traffic. If the semi traffic went the north route. It would be a lot better.

[bomberjet]

Went by the 59N/101 interchange yesterday for the first time in a while and they're moving right along, A large number of girders are up for the main overpass spans of 101. The flyover structures are still awaiting girders, but have most of the pier work done.

Seems like they're on track for a 2018 completion.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

Having heard this from every single government my entire life about the south perimeter. I doubt anything will happen. Let's be honest.

...

So I'm really confused how it takes so long to acquire land they had acquired 20 years ago. I lived 22 years on the south perimeter hearing these same promises over and over.

My advice? Don't hold your breath. The 59N/101 project sat on the books for close to 50 years waiting for construction. There are several projects trying to be the next one done on the Perimeter. Personally I think Gunn Rd will end up surprising people and make it to the top before St Marys/St Annes. It's part of the east/west corridor that will need a plan to cross the nearby floodway and without even traffic lights it is far more deadly in its current state than the south Perimeter area.

[QUOTE=Bluenote;7775119]The south perimeter is a death trap waiting to happen. The lights don't even have merge lanes. You just hope for the best.

Welcome to the design on the entire Perimeter. If you want to look at death traps look at Wilkes to the north bound Perimeter. Merging traffic exits at tight hairpin turn limiting any possible sped and then the merge lane ends almost immediately at the top of a bridge all in a 100 km/h zone. On the south Perimeter you are at least at grade with a wide shoulder and ditch that can be used in emergencies and all merges are in 80 km/h posted zones.

Another especially bad death trap in Gunn Rd. Due to the traffic needs of the area, left turns are not uncommon and entirely permitted. Challenge is the same lack of merge lanes as the south Perimeter. Worse, there aren't even traffic lights and the speed is posted as 100 km/h but it by far the most exceeded area of the whole Perimeter, there 120 km/h for through traffic is on the slow side.

Originally Posted by Bluenote

The south side of the city is the busiest for commuter traffic and it takes way to much cross Canada semi traffic. If the semi traffic went the north route. It would be a lot better.

Pretty sure the actually traffic counts would back the north Perimeter actually being significantly busier than the south Perimeter. Also all sections of the Perimeter see similar volumes of semis. Just look at the number turning onto the Perimeter from 59 on the north side or the number you see at Portage Ave and the Perimeter.

[Bluenote]

[QUOTE=CoryB;7776309]My advice? Don't hold your breath. The 59N/101 project sat on the books for close to 50 years waiting for construction. There are several projects trying to be the next one done on the Perimeter. Personally I think Gunn Rd will end up surprising people and make it to the top before St Marys/St Annes. It's part of the east/west corridor that will need a plan to cross the nearby floodway and without even traffic lights it is far more deadly in its current state than the south Perimeter area.

Originally Posted by Bluenote

The south perimeter is a death trap waiting to happen. The lights don't even have merge lanes. You just hope for the best.

Welcome to the design on the entire Perimeter. If you want to look at death traps look at Wilkes to the north bound Perimeter. Merging traffic exits at tight hairpin turn limiting any possible sped and then the merge lane ends almost immediately at the top of a bridge all in a 100 km/h zone. On the south Perimeter you are at least at grade with a wide shoulder and ditch that can be used in emergencies and all merges are in 80 km/h posted zones.

Another especially bad death trap in Gunn Rd. Due to the traffic needs of the area, left turns are not uncommon and entirely permitted. Challenge is the same lack of merge lanes as the south Perimeter. Worse, there aren't even traffic lights and the speed is posted as 100 km/h but it by far the most exceeded area of the whole Perimeter, there 120 km/h for through traffic is on the slow side.



Pretty sure the actually traffic counts would back the north Perimeter actually being significantly busier than the south Perimeter. Also all sections of the Perimeter see similar volumes of semis. Just look at the number turning onto the Perimeter from 59 on the north side or the number you see at Portage Ave and the Perimeter.

I use the perimeter daily for business. I'm quite aware of its short comings.
But GUNN road should never have been allowed to join the perimeter. Same as Pipeline. This beleif that every stupid little road needs to join is 1950's thinking. And sure you can argue the traffic on those two roads is stupid now and will get worse. And why is that? Because they were allowed to join I the first place and that spurred a huge industrial park at GUNN and then homes and new developments on and around Pipeline. Had those two never been allowed to cross the Perimeter the issue would not be here.

As for this pipe dream of east west corridor. I'm sorry. OakBank doesn't warrant a new highway and bridge and overpass. Especially when places like St Nob has been waiting for a bypass for ever. Same as Headingly. Same as #2-#3 needing something other then lights.

Wilkes is an easy fix. You just make the ramps longer. Extend them further south before they turn back on the perimeter and then you can have nice off and on ramps. No need for a 50 million dollar bridge there. Just some basic roadwork.

St Mary's is horrible to enter. It's at an angle already so you don't really have a clear view of the semis speeding through there. And then about 50 feet of merge lane.

As for traffic counts. Yes the higher counts are on the north. But the north has the most free flowing part of the perimeter. The south however isn't. It's ridden with lights and most east west traffic goes the south route. That's a lot more semis then the north and semis don't stop to well. So a proper traffic study on semis vs some passengers cars escaping to tax cheating esp and wsp are needed. Amd let's not forget that the south is growing way faster the. The north now. So studies done even 5 years ago are way off.

[jmt18325]

The province has started to remove access points, so they definitely agree with you. They only have so much funding though, and a lot of priorities.