City Murder Rates

[Velvet_Highground]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Wow, Washington's murder rate is higher than Detroit's this year. That probably hasn't happened since the early 90s.

Sounds about right. Detroit hasn’t cracked the top 10 in terms of the broader list for the first time in quite a while. Though Detroit proper only has about 650k in population leaving it off the list of the 10 biggest cities in the nation therefore competing in a longer list. A major improvement is nothing to sneer at yet Detroit is at over 39 per 100k certainly nothing to celebrate though a continued move in the right direction.

Getting statehood status is for DC and Puerto Rico would be a good measure to gaining federal and state resources towards tacking some long standing issues. There’s not an apples to apples comparison here but playing a meaningful part in presidential elections and having real congressional representation would go a long way to making sure their tax dollars go to better use.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Velvet_Highground

Getting statehood status is for DC and Puerto Rico would be a good measure to gaining federal and state resources towards tacking some long standing issues. There’s not an apples to apples comparison here but playing a meaningful part in presidential elections and having real congressional representation would go a long way to making sure their tax dollars go to better use.

Washington is directly administered by the federal government, so it's not an access to resources issue.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Tampa and Orlando had old data. Las Vegas is hard because the Las Vegas Metropolitan police has a larger jurisdiction than the city limits, so I don't know what the right population basis is. Similarly Miami seems to be the wrong agency entirely, since it links to Miami-Dade PD, but they don't have jurisdiction within Miami proper (it's the parts of Dade county that don't have their own police force, if I understand correctly).

Florida fucks around and fudges the numbers because of Tourism. Pretty sad shit. Someone on city data said the Miami mayor is lying his ass off,

The thing Miami does often, and I saw this for myself when working with the city, is they either 1. Classify certain homicides as "justified" 2. Transfer them from city of Miami police to MDPD, thus artificially reducing their numbers (even though it happened within city limits) 3. They just flat out don't count them Today's news will put them at 7/100K, which is "low" but they're skweing numbers as usual. They're really at 11-13/100K

Read more: https://www.city-data.com/forum/city...023-a-201.html


Imagine if LA, SF , Chicago or NYC pulled that crap.

[Gantz]

Originally Posted by Crawford

SF has about 10-15% the murder rate of cities in U.S. regions where there's almost a consensus that SF is an unsalvagable warzone, not fit for human habitation.

The complaints about SF are not about murder rate, but about piss and theft.
Its the richest city in the country with very questionable QOL on the streets to put it mildly.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Gantz

The complaints about SF are not about murder rate, but about piss and theft.
Its the richest city in the country with very questionable QOL on the streets to put it mildly.

Disagree, the narrative is that SF is unsafe. SF has, for U.S. standards, very low crime rates, including violent crime rates like murder. I have clients who won't set foot in SF, and it's due to perceptions about safety, not urine.

[Gantz]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Disagree, the narrative is that SF is unsafe. SF has, for U.S. standards, very low crime rates, including violent crime rates like murder. I have clients who won't set foot in SF, and it's due to perceptions about safety, not urine.

A lot of it has to do with perception. Without looking at the stats, on the ground in tourist areas, Chicago looks much safer than SF for example.
SF looks very unsafe due to low QOL. NYC has a similar problem, but not to that extreme.

[Steely Dan]

Humans generally suck at risk assessment because emotions.

Some people who visit Chicago actively worry about getting murdered while walking around downtown.

But they won't give the slightest single thought to the taxi ride from ORD down to the loop.

The latter is much more dangerous for the typical Chicago tourist.

[Crawford]

There have been individual years where more Americans were killed while in vehicles than total American deaths during the entire Vietnam War.

Yeah, people are generally terrible at relative risk assessment.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Disagree, the narrative is that SF is unsafe. SF has, for U.S. standards, very low crime rates, including violent crime rates like murder. I have clients who won't set foot in SF, and it's due to perceptions about safety, not urine.

I have a theory that people project their own emotions about their nearest big city onto stories in the national media about NYC, Chicago, and/or SF. If someone has negative feelings about the city they live closest to, then hearing stories about dysfunction in San Francisco just validates the narrative that cities are fucked up places. The media never qualifies that the overall violent crime in NYC is MUCH lower than the typical American city. I think the shit hole city narrative is less effective on people who have positive feelings about the city they live closest to (or in).

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Crawford

There have been individual years where more Americans were killed while in vehicles than total American deaths during the entire Vietnam War.

Yeah, people are generally terrible at relative risk assessment.

"You take your children on the L?!?! But it's so DANGEROUS!!!!!!!", says the horrified suburban soccer mom as she loads her kids into her Expedition to go flying down stroads at 50mph multiple times per day, everyday.

She is completely unaware of how stupid she is.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Disagree, the narrative is that SF is unsafe. SF has, for U.S. standards, very low crime rates, including violent crime rates like murder. I have clients who won't set foot in SF, and it's due to perceptions about safety, not urine.

The toll property crime and theft takes on a person and their feeling of safety gets downplayed, though. When you have had your windows smashed five times and car damaged, packages stolen over and over again, etc., it does lead to a feeling of being violated and as brazen as the crime is it's natural to think that it can escalate at any time and/or naturally creates a lot of what if scenarios.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

The toll property crime and theft takes on a person and their feeling of safety gets downplayed, though. When you have had your windows smashed five times and car damaged, packages stolen over and over again, etc., it does lead to a feeling of being violated and as brazen as the crime is it's natural to think that it can escalate at any time and/or naturally creates a lot of what if scenarios.

We're not talking about the perceptions of people who actually live in SF.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

We're not talking about the perceptions of people who actually live in SF.

It can happen while visiting and people have friends/relatives that do live in SF that it is happening to. And seeing countless videos of people smashing window after window and stealing from cars is enough to make someone think twice. And I am not picking on SF either, similar situation in many cities right now and the point being decreasing violent crime is great of course but there's more to it than just that when it comes to the general feeling of safety.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

It can happen while visiting and people have friends/relatives that do live in SF that it is happening to. And seeing countless videos of people smashing window after window and stealing from cars is enough to make someone think twice. And I am not picking on SF either, similar situation in many cities right now and the point being decreasing violent crime is great of course but there's more to it than just that when it comes to the general feeling of safety.

Right, we're just talking about social media perceptions and not about actual perceptions from people in these cities, visiting or otherwise. I was in San Francisco last summer and didn't feel uncomfortable at all. I felt more safe walking in SF alone at night than I would in most major U.S. cities.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

It can happen while visiting and people have friends/relatives that do live in SF that it is happening to. And seeing countless videos of people smashing window after window and stealing from cars is enough to make someone think twice. And I am not picking on SF either, similar situation in many cities right now and the point being decreasing violent crime is great of course but there's more to it than just that when it comes to the general feeling of safety.

I just served two weeks on a grand jury and heard upwards of 100 cases. My city now has crime cameras all over the high crime areas. They are high-quality and it's very easy to read license plates and do facial recognition from over 100 feet away. Most hilariously, they can simply follow people walking back to their apartments, meaning the the police just...go to that apartment and knock on the door. They don't have to chase them in their cruisers.

These cameras are helping police identify the people breaking into cars, stealing cars, shooting firearms, etc. But the crazy thing is that it's not really deterring crime. All of these people know the whole public housing complex has cameras but...they still sell drugs, guns, etc. in full view of the cameras. They could go around the corner where there are no cameras, but...they don't.

It's...insane. Because chronic criminals are just really, really stupid people.

[The North One]

I feel like I'd be way more likely to get randomly attacked by a homeless person in San Francisco than the traditional high murder rate cities tbh. That violence usually happens behind closed doors between people who know each other.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by The North One

I feel like I'd be way more likely to get randomly attacked by a homeless person in San Francisco than the traditional high murder rate cities tbh. That violence usually happens behind closed doors between people who know each other.

What an odd feeling. As a visitor you are not at all likely to be randomly attacked by a homeless person in San Francisco, just as I am not at all likely to be randomly gunned down while visiting Philadelphia.

Do you also feel it is more likely that 20 angels can dance on the head of a pin than 30 angels?

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

I just served two weeks on a grand jury and heard upwards of 100 cases. My city now has crime cameras all over the high crime areas. They are high-quality and it's very easy to read license plates and do facial recognition from over 100 feet away. Most hilariously, they can simply follow people walking back to their apartments, meaning the the police just...go to that apartment and knock on the door. They don't have to chase them in their cruisers.

These cameras are helping police identify the people breaking into cars, stealing cars, shooting firearms, etc. But the crazy thing is that it's not really deterring crime. All of these people know the whole public housing complex has cameras but...they still sell drugs, guns, etc. in full view of the cameras. They could go around the corner where there are no cameras, but...they don't.

It's...insane. Because chronic criminals are just really, really stupid people.

What city are you in? We have public security cameras but only in isolated areas. Doorbell cams are really common, though, yet they don't do much good. I suppose private businesses have a bunch of cameras. But I wish we had 100 times as many public security cameras all over the city, like pointed at streets, all of the parks, etc.. Property crime is nuts here, and it doesn't matter where you live. I'm talking about car break-ins, stolen cars, grafitti, shoplifting, general theft, etc.. In my neighborhood we've had homeless decide to move into homes for sale or under construction. A few blocks from me, they burned down a home under construction.

[LA21st]

Youre def more likely to get mugged in detroit than get attacked by a homeless person in sf. No idea why people think this is common. It makes the news because it isnt fucking common.

People thinking detroit is safer than SF. yea fucking right. Lets just throw out all the stats that say different because of feelings. You know what brings crime and violence? CRIMINALS. So sick of this dumbass narrative. Maybe people say it because they live in violent places.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by craigs

What an odd feeling. As a visitor you are not at all likely to be randomly attacked by a homeless person in San Francisco, just as I am not at all likely to be randomly gunned down while visiting Philadelphia.

Do you also feel it is more likely that 20 angels can dance on the head of a pin than 30 angels?

I bet hes never even been to california. The people who bring up the oh my God, im going to get killed by a homeless person is someone who watches right wing propaganda videos in their spare time.