CHICAGO | Waterview Tower | 1,047' Official / 1,035' Roof | 89 FLOORS |NEVER BUILT - Page 59

colemonkee · #**1161** Posted **Dec 19, 2007, 5:52 AM**

^ Meh, seems like I'm always late to the party. Enough derailing this thread with my pointless jokes.

ufdigga · #**1162** Posted **Dec 19, 2007, 3:15 PM**

Do you think you'd be able to see Wrigley Field from the higher levels?

Steely Dan · #**1163** Posted **Dec 19, 2007, 3:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ufdigga

Do you think you'd be able to see Wrigley Field from the higher levels?

most certainly. i can see wrigley from the roof of marina city, and waterview will be roughly 2x taller. however, you won't be able to make out much of the stadium without a telescope or binoculars, it's pretty damn tiny when you're 4 miles away from it.

jrickw · #**1164** Posted **Dec 19, 2007, 5:32 PM**

I walked by the site yesterday at around 3:45, and it seemed to be deserted. I know that we have been seeing progress but I still thought it odd that they would shut down construction on a major project so early in the day. The paranoid side of my brain immediately started worrying about the fact that, as far as I know, there still has been no announcement of the financing necessary to finish this project. Does anybody know anything more about the money? Could the financing situation be having an impact on the pace of work at the site?

Also, a question to insiders -- is there a contingency plan as to what this building will end up becoming if the developer is never able to obtain financing for the tower? My recollection is that the Plaza Escada on North Michigan was originally supposed to include a high-rise tower that would have been the Park Hyatt (later developed as the Park Tower -- one of the earliest in the current boom). I believe that the foundation for the Plaza Escada is actually designed to support the tower that was never built. Until financing for WV is set, it seems that it could befall a similar fate.

harryc · #**1165** Posted **Dec 19, 2007, 5:39 PM**

They are working now

Knightwing · #**1166** Posted **Dec 19, 2007, 5:42 PM**

Ye of little faith...

jrickw · #**1167** Posted **Dec 19, 2007, 5:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by harryc

They are working now

I didn't mean to suggest that they had stopped working completely -- only that they seemed to stop working early in the day, which suggests a "leisurely" work pace that could be driven by the need to balance competing interests of showing steady progress [necessary to attract buyers] while making the money stretch until permanent financing is in place.

Eventually...Chicago · #**1168** Posted **Dec 19, 2007, 6:05 PM**

who knows what is going on?

contractors keep weird schedules and are responsible with building more than one project at a time so they have to balance have certain people on one job at a certain time versus another. They could be waiting for conc. to cure enough to continue, something to be delivered, another crew to show up, the bears to stop sucking (hence this building won't be finished until '09), ... people need to stop worrying, the percentage of projects that fail after starting construction is pathetically small.

Working slowly doesn't save anyone money. Construction costs keep skyrocketing, everyone wants to get the project done as soon as possible, financing or not. Besides, assume the worst and the developer goes under because of this project, when they liquidate assets i would rather be bankrupt with a finished building with real good value than a partially finished building. Better to be dollar poor and building rich than dollar poor AND property poor. Really, enough about this project's progress, it is being built, enjoy it...

ufdigga · #**1169** Posted **Dec 19, 2007, 7:07 PM**

Anybody know what the going rate is on the condos right now? I contacted the sales office about a condo, and I was very surprised by the asking price:

Apt 71-01: $3,167,000 (3671 sq. ft.)
Per Sq. Ft: $862.71
Quote From Emporis in 2004:

Quote:

Chicago: Pre-sales have begun on the 236 residential units for the 82-storey mixed-use Waterview Tower at 111 West Wacker Drive. The residential units will occupy floors 26 through 80, with prices starting at $410 per sq. ft. The penthouse units starting at the 69th floor will range between $672 and $721 per sq. ft. The lower floors will be used for office and parking.

This unit's cost far exceeds even the highest quoted square-footage price for "penthouse units". With all of the high-rise residences currently being built in Chicago, and with the general state of the real estate market in general, I would have expected supply-and-demand to force a much lower price-point.

Is there any pertinent explanation I'm missing?

rascacielos · #**1170** Posted **Dec 19, 2007, 7:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ufdigga

Anybody know what the going rate is on the condos right now? I contacted the sales office about a condo, and I was very surprised by the asking price:

Apt 71-01: $3,167,000 (3167 sq. ft.)
Per Sq. Ft: $862.71
Quote From Emporis in 2004:

This unit's cost far exceeds even the highest quoted square-footage price for "penthouse units". With all of the high-rise residences currently being built in Chicago, and with the general state of the real estate market in general, I would have expected supply-and-demand to force a much lower price-point.

Is there any pertinent explanation I'm missing?

My math skills aren't the greatest but doesn't that come out to exactly $1,000 per square foot?

budman · #**1171** Posted **Dec 19, 2007, 7:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ufdigga

Anybody know what the going rate is on the condos right now? I contacted the sales office about a condo, and I was very surprised by the asking price:

Apt 71-01: $3,167,000 (3167 sq. ft.)
Per Sq. Ft: $862.71
Quote From Emporis in 2004:

This unit's cost far exceeds even the highest quoted square-footage price for "penthouse units". With all of the high-rise residences currently being built in Chicago, and with the general state of the real estate market in general, I would have expected supply-and-demand to force a much lower price-point.

Is there any pertinent explanation I'm missing?

^The price points have increased at least three times since 2004, most recently this past summer. This is typical in new construction projects, even smaller ones. The highest price point for this tower is currently $1000/ sq ft for the top, full floor penthouses (I didnt know that the lower floors were going for this amount too). The explanation is that the developer's research shows the market will bear these price points over time. If they are wrong, the answer isn't to lower prices (from a marketing perspective, this would be imprudent). Instead, one could negotiate some incentives from the developer if one believes that the units are overpriced. Because this would be a private transaction, done on a case-by-case basis, the developer would not run the risk of aessentially advertising a discount on the units. If the developer is right that the market will bear these price points, they will not negotiate any incentives. Once the developer has financing, and depending on the terms of the financing (eg, when the loan becomes due, what is the interest rate, etc.), the developer can hold out to sell the units at the higher price point because buyers cant close on their units for another two years (in this case) anyway. So the developer can wait until the market gets better to sell at the increased price. The fact that the developer has increased the price points here even though no financing has yet been announced demonstrates, to me at least, that they are confident of obtaining financing. This is oversimplified, but you get the point...

ufdigga · #**1172** Posted **Dec 19, 2007, 7:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rascacielos

My math skills aren't the greatest but doesn't that come out to exactly $1,000 per square foot?

Yes, sorry. I mistyped the square-footage, which is actually 3671 sq. ft.

chi-arch · #**1173** Posted **Dec 19, 2007, 8:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by budman

^The price points have increased at least three times since 2004, most recently this past summer. This is typical in new construction projects, even smaller ones. The highest price point for this tower is currently $1000/ sq ft for the top, full floor penthouses (I didnt know that the lower floors were going for this amount too). The explanation is that the developer's research shows the market will bear these price points over time. If they are wrong, the answer isn't to lower prices (from a marketing perspective, this would be imprudent). Instead, one could negotiate some incentives from the developer if one believes that the units are overpriced. Because this would be a private transaction, done on a case-by-case basis, the developer would not run the risk of aessentially advertising a discount on the units. If the developer is right that the market will bear these price points, they will not negotiate any incentives. Once the developer has financing, and depending on the terms of the financing (eg, when the loan becomes due, what is the interest rate, etc.), the developer can hold out to sell the units at the higher price point because buyers cant close on their units for another two years (in this case) anyway. So the developer can wait until the market gets better to sell at the increased price. The fact that the developer has increased the price points here even though no financing has yet been announced demonstrates, to me at least, that they are confident of obtaining financing. This is oversimplified, but you get the point...

well said, Budman! Plus the fact that there are only 236 units. and Ufdigga, did you only ask about penthouse pricing? Is that what you are interested in?

The other issue that started this regarding construction... quitting time is 3:30.

I don't understand the issue.

ufdigga · #**1174** Posted **Dec 19, 2007, 8:11 PM**

Budman: Thanks for the explanation! I still would have expected the depressed housing market to affect these luxury condos, but I suppose people are still buying them at a sufficient rate to justify the price.

Chi-Arch: My specific request was for details on an -01 (East Corner) unit at a height that exceeded the United building.

chi-arch · #**1175** Posted **Dec 19, 2007, 9:11 PM**

^^There is always room for negotiation. Make an offer at $850/sf and see if they are interested. Trump still has units available, but I would guess they are in the very same range on a per s.f. basis.

budman · #**1176** Posted **Dec 19, 2007, 10:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by chi-arch

The other issue that started this regarding construction... quitting time is 3:30.

I don't understand the issue.

^A 3:30 quitting time is my dream

harryc · #**1177** Posted **Dec 20, 2007, 3:57 AM**

chi-arch · #**1178** Posted **Dec 20, 2007, 8:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by budman

^A 3:30 quitting time is my dream

I see construction in your future, Budman!! I probably forgot to tell you that the start time is 6:30 though.....

Lecom · #**1179** Posted **Dec 21, 2007, 9:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

I wonder if some smartass model maker put that car like that in there?

I wouldn't be surprised if some architecture intern (or a licensed architect) was just messing around. I remember doing the same with human figures while we were building the Moynihan Station model in '06. Of course, I never crossed the line, but nevertheless their arms and legs were bendable, allowing us to make them do cool stuff.

SolarWind · #**1180** Posted **Dec 23, 2007, 11:43 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ufdigga

Do you think you'd be able to see Wrigley Field from the higher levels?

Yeah, Wrigley Field will be visible to the majority of Waterview residents facing north. From that distance, the light towers are the most prominent feature.

Here's a picture of Wrigley Field taken Dec. 12 from the United Building next door to Waterview Tower. I happened to capture it in the background while taking a photo of River North. The light towers are visible to the left and right of the building in the middle.