Will any other metro host multiple teams in the same sport?

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Again, real sports fans don't care about the value of the team. Do you think Knicks fans care that they're the highest valued team in the league when the product, at every level of the organization from ownership to players, has been trash for nearly two decades?

I don't know if that's a great example. There is a lot of debate about whether Knicks fans are encouraging the mediocrity because they keep pumping money into the org despite the results.

[Chisouthside]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I don't know if that's a great example. There is a lot of debate about whether Knicks fans are encouraging the mediocrity because they keep pumping money into the org despite the results.

I think Bulls and Knicks fans are similar in that they're ride or die even in lean seasons, but at least with Bulls fans they do seem to have patience for 3 or 4 seasons max before they rebel, look at attendance finally dropping this year. Whereas Knicks fans love the mediocrity, it's NEW YAWKKKKK

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Chisouthside

I think Bulls and Knicks fans are similar in that they're ride or die even in lean seasons, but at least with Bulls fans they do seem to have patience for 3 or 4 seasons max before they rebel, look at attendance finally dropping this year. Whereas Knicks fans love the mediocrity, it's NEW YAWKKKKK

Things will get interesting if the Nets win (or get close to winning) a championship.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Chisouthside

at least with Bulls fans they do seem to have patience for 3 or 4 seasons max before they rebel, look at attendance finally dropping this year.

whoa, you're right. i hadn't been following the bull's average attendance this year, but they're currently 11th league-wide. they haven't been below the top 3 in attendance since 2003.

quite a drop indeed!



the blackhawks are still first in attendance in the NHL though (as they have been for the past decade), despite their now 3 season slump.

if they don't get to fucking work and make the playoffs again one of these years, might they follow a similar fate as the bulls?

[xzmattzx]

I/everyone forgot to mention that the Sacramento Kings almost moved to Anaheim a few years ago. That would've been the Los Angeles area's third NBA team.

[skysoar]

I believe the Chicago area could support another major league team , but it would need to be in an area close to Ohare airport. The corridor of I-294 north going toward Wisconsin, and south going toward Indiana has many large western suburbs in which to draw from with large populations.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by xzmattzx

I/everyone forgot to mention that the Sacramento Kings almost moved to Anaheim a few years ago. That would've been the Los Angeles area's third NBA team.

oh yeah, forgot about that.

on that note, i remember the clippers used to play some "home" games down at the duck pond in anaheim back in the 90s, and drew pretty well.

i never understood why they didn't just fully transition to anaheim permanently to differentiate themselves from, and get out of the shadow of, the alpha-dog lakers.

Originally Posted by skysoar

I believe the Chicago area could support another major league team , but it would need to be in an area close to Ohare airport. The corridor of I-294 north going toward Wisconsin, and south going toward Indiana has many large western suburbs in which to draw from with large populations.

well, the Rosemont Horizon (excuse me, Allstate Arena) has been just north of O'hare, right near the junction of the tri-state and the northwest tollway (excuse me, the jane adams tollway), for 4 decades now, and it has never been able to attract a major league team, just minor league hockey, college B-ball, arena football, WNBA, and indoor soccer (all it has left now is minor league hockey after Wintrust Arena opened in the south loop and took the WNBA and Depaul college hoops away from it).

[Chisouthside]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

whoa, you're right. i hadn't been following the bull's average attendance this year, but they're currently 11th league-wide. they haven't been below the top 3 in attendance since 2003.

quite a drop indeed!



the blackhawks are still first in attendance in the NHL though (as they have been for the past decade), despite their now 3 season slump.

if they don't get to fucking work and make the playoffs again one of these years, might they follow a similar fate as the bulls?

I think they might have another season or two before fans rebel, especially after winning 3 stanley cups. 2003 was a full five years of futility after the last Bulls Championship.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Again, real sports fans don't care about the value of the team. Do you think Knicks fans care that they're the highest valued team in the league when the product, at every level of the organization from ownership to players, has been trash for nearly two decades?

Who's talking about real fans. The owner is not moving a team that's worth billions more in one city to another for "real fans"

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by xzmattzx

I/everyone forgot to mention that the Sacramento Kings almost moved to Anaheim a few years ago. That would've been the Los Angeles area's third NBA team.

And in certain they would have done very well there,other than lakers games of course

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

Who's talking about real fans. The owner is not moving a team that's worth billions more in one city to another for "real fans"

Again, that's great for the owner. But real sports fans don't define success with monetary value. No one in the NFL currently respects the Chargers or their fans. I mean, do they even have any left? If you go to any sports blog, the Chargers are one of the prime laughing stock teams in the league right now.

Anyone who watches the NFL even casually knows the Chargers move to Los Angeles has been an utter failure. From opponents fans filling the stadium to absolutely dismal television ratings in Los Angeles, the NFL may be preparing to do something.

...

One particularly troubling thing for the NFL was even with the team winning 12 games in 2018, the team still is considered a laughing stock by most Angelenos.

https://www.cbs8.com/article/sports/...c-4b96f3266fe8

[LA21st]

That's great fans don't respect the chargers at all, but it means nothing.
Aloy of fans don't respect the Jags, Browns etc. So what?
The NFL can't force a owner to move to a place he doesn't want to go to.

That would be horrible look for the league.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by LA21st

That's great fans don't respect the chargers at all, but it means nothing.
Aloy of fans don't respect the Jags, Browns etc. So what?
The NFL can't force a owner to move to a place he doesn't want to go to.

That would be horrible look for the league.

It depends how you define success. Are the Knicks or Chargers successful from a a purely basketball/football and fan experience standpoint? Hell to the no! At least that’s how I define success for a sports franchise. Of course it helps to make money too but I didn’t hear any Chargers fans when they lost to the Chiefs go “Oh yeah? My team is worth $200 million more than yours!”

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by homebucket

It depends how you define success. Are the Knicks or Chargers successful from a a purely basketball/football and fan experience standpoint? Hell to the no! At least that’s how I define success for a sports franchise. Of course it helps to make money too but I didn’t hear any Chargers fans when they lost to the Chiefs go “Oh yeah? My team is worth $200 million more than yours!”

We're talking about two different things here.
The value was brought up as evidence why the Chargers will stay put, since people here are arguing they should be forced to relocate. Which makes no sense, as Los Anglees Sports Fan said, they would lose a billion or more in value.
They're not failing in LA financially.

[edale]

Originally Posted by LA21st

We're talking about two different things here.
The value was brought up as evidence why the Chargers will stay put, since people here are arguing they should be forced to relocate. Which makes no sense, as Los Anglees Sports Fan said, they would lose a billion or more in value.
They're not failing in LA financially.

Who is arguing that they should be forced to relocate? I've only seen people saying it's ridiculous they moved in the first place, no one wants them in Los Angeles or cares that they're here (see: poor tv ratings and very few Charger fans showing up to games), and, if they had to move out of SD, they probably would have been better received if they moved to a city that didn't have another team.

If the valuation of teams was all that mattered, why not stick 5 teams in NYC, 4 in LA, a couple in Chicago and Texas and tell the rest of the country to fuck off. Some of the most iconic and popular teams in the league are from small markets- the most obvious example being Green Bay. But Pittsburgh, Kansas City, New Orleans are all also small markets. Given the logic you're using to defend the move out of SD, should LA absorb the Steelers, too? They could surely get more people tuning into games in the ~20 million person media market of Southern California than they could in ~3 million person Pittsburgh. See how ridiculous that sounds? The valuation of the teams literally means nothing to 99% of sports fans. People want history and rivalries and, yes, geographic distribution of teams. Having everything clustered in a couple markets might make (temporary) financial sense, but that's not what people care about.

[LA21st]

You've got to be kidding. I have no idea why people can't comprehend a simple thing. All we said was the Chargers are worth more in LA, and moving sans NYC, are going to lose value. THAT"S IT. Nothing else about the other teams. NOTHING. I'll say it a third time,since it's so complicated for you. SPANOS CARES ABOUT THE VALUATION. HE DECIDES TO STAY OR GO.

You guys are the ones talking about fans being unhappy and they don't care about the valuation. That's true and nobody has argued this. But the fans don't matter in this equation because they have no power. It sucks, but that's the way sports is. If you have a bad owner, you're screwed. Redskins, Knicks, Bears, 49ers (for a short time).

[edale]

You got defensive when someone mentioned the Chargers moving to LA being a mistake for the league, given the incredible apathy that Angelenos have toward the team. YOU brought up that the valuation of the team increased by moving to LA, which no one has disputed. What I, and others, have said is that valuation of the team is not the marker that anyone cares about except for the team owner and Roger Goodell. Yes, the Chargers are supposedly worth a lot more on paper now than when they were in San Diego. They are also a team essentially without a fan base and that no one cares about.

Relax, bud. No one is taking shots at Los Angeles. You don't have to go on a crusade again to save the city's reputation from mean skyscraperpage forumers.

[LA21st]

I didn't bring up the valuation
And where did I say it was the only thing that mattered?

I'm tired of explaining the same thing over and over again because you guys want to keep talking about fans unhappiness, which nobody disagreed with.
It wouldnt affect me at all if the Chargers moved back to SD, but I understand why Spanos made the move and will remain there. Its money.
He's not the first owner to do this, it's nothing new.

[Handro]

Originally Posted by LA21st

I didn't bring up the valuation
And where did I say it was the only thing that mattered?

I'm tired of explaining the same thing over and over again because you guys want to keep talking about fans unhappiness, which nobody disagreed with.
It wouldnt affect me at all if the Chargers moved back to SD, but I understand why Spanos made the move and will remain there. Its money.
He's not the first owner to do this, it's nothing new.

I don't think you do understand though; he moved because he wanted a new stadium not because he though LA was a better market for his team. That's why it's so sweet watching the team struggle to sell season tickets after abandoning their rabid fan base in San Diego because taxpayers wouldn't fund his private stadium.

He's banking on the stadium boosting the valuation of the Chargers (I think the Cowboys stadium adds like $1B to the teams worth) to make up for the loss/stagnation of fan-driven revenue. As of now the Chargers rank in the bottom third of teams as far as valuation goes, about where they were years before their move to LA.

[LA21st]

I understand fine. Again, I didn't bring up the valuation. I only said the valuation is what Spanos cares about, not the fans opinions.
And where did I say La was the better market for them? Of course he's banking on the new stadium. That's not news.
I said in the long run, things will get better as they build a fanbase grows. It was never going to be a overnight thing .