Long term repercussions from Covid-19 what will they be?

[thurmas]

Europe was in much better shape when it was the "community" in the 70's and 80's and just a free trading zone now it has become this massive bureaucratic monolith that hampers the needs of many countries.

[whatnext]

Guess who asked for Coronavirus bailout but won't get one?


“No” – Government dismisses Airbnb request to bail out hosts in Canada with one word"

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by milomilo

There was always a lot of talk about how the Spanish HSR system was vastly overbuilt as well as abandoned airports.

https://www.rfae.org/the-astonishing...orts-in-spain/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ost-train.html




I highly doubt the Euro will go away. But if the EU is to keep the Euro, and peace, they are going to have to integrate further. You can't properly have a currency union without a shared political destiny.

In fairness I have taken Spain's awesome AVE trains several times including in the past year and they were always pretty full. But I never took that line.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I saw your comment and started smiling.
I was like, “I knew it! Jacques was talking about transportation infrastructure.”
Yea the ones in Scandinavian countries,

Got it.

[wave46]

I'll put this here because I don't where else to put it.

Maybe this crisis is going to make us confront something that's always been with humanity, but we've swept under the rug in our society.

Death.

Now, the modern era has really changed our relationship with death. Before the modern era (say, post WWII), death was a constant companion in life. If one grew up on a farm, one was acutely aware of where one's food came from. There was no old age home to ship people off to once they became inconvenient. People died in the homes that the family lived in.

With the Baby Boom, nuclear family and modern healthcare, death has been removed from daily life. Death became a melodramatic moment on TV or in the movies. Now, people can 'die' metaphorically speaking far before they actually go. A family shunts granny off into the old-folks home and forgets about her except for a visit or two a year. I've seen people dumped into the healthcare system and forgotten about by their families. We call them 'alternate level of care' as a euphemism for 'waiting for them to die' in the industry.

I'm not sure about where we should go with this, but I'm almost wondering if the nuclear family thing that appeared post-WWII as an ideal was a fluke. Certainly, the conditions that precipitated it are falling apart for the average person. It depended on cheap housing, a single breadwinner and stable employment. Now, housing becomes ever more expensive (outpacing inflation), both parents work and need daycare ($$$) for the kids, and grandparents are being shoved into an overloaded system to wait it out until the end. Indeed, in most other human societies of the past, the grandparents ended up taking care of the children as the labour had to be done by the most able-bodied.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by wave46

I'll put this here because I don't where else to put it.

Maybe this crisis is going to make us confront something that's always been with humanity, but we've swept under the rug in our society.

Death.

Now, the modern era has really changed our relationship with death. Before the modern era (say, post WWII), death was a constant companion in life. If one grew up on a farm, one was acutely aware of where one's food came from. There was no old age home to ship people off to once they became inconvenient. People died in the homes that the family lived in.

With the Baby Boom, nuclear family and modern healthcare, death has been removed from daily life. Death became a melodramatic moment on TV or in the movies. Now, people can 'die' metaphorically speaking far before they actually go. A family shunts granny off into the old-folks home and forgets about her except for a visit or two a year. I've seen people dumped into the healthcare system and forgotten about by their families. We call them 'alternate level of care' as a euphemism for 'waiting for them to die' in the industry.

I'm not sure about where we should go with this, but I'm almost wondering if the nuclear family thing that appeared post-WWII as an ideal was a fluke. Certainly, the conditions that precipitated it are falling apart for the average person. It depended on cheap housing, a single breadwinner and stable employment. Now, housing becomes ever more expensive (outpacing inflation), both parents work and need daycare ($$$) for the kids, and grandparents are being shoved into an overloaded system to wait it out until the end. Indeed, in most other human societies of the past, the grandparents ended up taking care of the children as the labour had to be done by the most able-bodied.

Well said.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by p_xavier

Well said.

It's just one of those things that became de rigeur that seems to fall apart once you examine it more closely. People act like it's always been this way, but when one looks at it historically, the idea of people living in their own 'pods' distant from their extended families is actually the aberration. The idea of 'social distancing' is kind of the extreme version of this.

Humans are deeply social creatures. Indeed, I wonder if the increased mental health issues we are experiencing today are because many people are socially isolated from each other and meaning in life.

Humans were built to have a role to play in a society. We are not sedentary animals and the idea that one would just stop doing something (in other words, retire) and just wait for the end is bizarre.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by wave46

I'll put this here because I don't where else to put it.

Maybe this crisis is going to make us confront something that's always been with humanity, but we've swept under the rug in our society.

Death.

Now, the modern era has really changed our relationship with death. Before the modern era (say, post WWII), death was a constant companion in life. If one grew up on a farm, one was acutely aware of where one's food came from. There was no old age home to ship people off to once they became inconvenient. People died in the homes that the family lived in.

With the Baby Boom, nuclear family and modern healthcare, death has been removed from daily life. Death became a melodramatic moment on TV or in the movies. Now, people can 'die' metaphorically speaking far before they actually go. A family shunts granny off into the old-folks home and forgets about her except for a visit or two a year. I've seen people dumped into the healthcare system and forgotten about by their families. We call them 'alternate level of care' as a euphemism for 'waiting for them to die' in the industry.

I'm not sure about where we should go with this, but I'm almost wondering if the nuclear family thing that appeared post-WWII as an ideal was a fluke. Certainly, the conditions that precipitated it are falling apart for the average person. It depended on cheap housing, a single breadwinner and stable employment. Now, housing becomes ever more expensive (outpacing inflation), both parents work and need daycare ($$$) for the kids, and grandparents are being shoved into an overloaded system to wait it out until the end. Indeed, in most other human societies of the past, the grandparents ended up taking care of the children as the labour had to be done by the most able-bodied.

Can't disagree with anything you've said here.

We're detached from the realities of life, in the constant pursuit of selfish desires, feel that we're owed things without having to earn them.

There are a lot of good people in our society, don't get me wrong. But we have work to do and this catastrophe will force us to look straight into the mirror and reflect on our failings...

[ssiguy]

Completely agree with wave46. An excellent and insightful post.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wave46

I'll put this here because I don't where else to put it.

Maybe this crisis is going to make us confront something that's always been with humanity, but we've swept under the rug in our society.

Death.

Now, the modern era has really changed our relationship with death. Before the modern era (say, post WWII), death was a constant companion in life. If one grew up on a farm, one was acutely aware of where one's food came from. There was no old age home to ship people off to once they became inconvenient. People died in the homes that the family lived in.

With the Baby Boom, nuclear family and modern healthcare, death has been removed from daily life. Death became a melodramatic moment on TV or in the movies. Now, people can 'die' metaphorically speaking far before they actually go. A family shunts granny off into the old-folks home and forgets about her except for a visit or two a year. I've seen people dumped into the healthcare system and forgotten about by their families. We call them 'alternate level of care' as a euphemism for 'waiting for them to die' in the industry.

I'm not sure about where we should go with this, but I'm almost wondering if the nuclear family thing that appeared post-WWII as an ideal was a fluke. Certainly, the conditions that precipitated it are falling apart for the average person. It depended on cheap housing, a single breadwinner and stable employment. Now, housing becomes ever more expensive (outpacing inflation), both parents work and need daycare ($$$) for the kids, and grandparents are being shoved into an overloaded system to wait it out until the end. Indeed, in most other human societies of the past, the grandparents ended up taking care of the children as the labour had to be done by the most able-bodied.

As others have said, this is a good post.

But it's really a western world thing.

I was chatting with a friend of mine who is from Africa yesterday, and while he is observing all of the "rules" these days, he has a more fatalistic attitude about such things than we native-born westerners do. (I have observed this about him long before anyone had heard of COVID-19.)

He said: "You know when you come into this life, but you don't know when you will go out, or how. The only thing that is certain is that you'll go out at some point."

[Dengler Avenue]

Well, he’s not wrong...

[whatnext]

Bad news from the restaurant industry:

A Restaurants Canada survey has revealed that many jobs lost due to COVID-19 might not return, as nearly one in 10 restaurants have already closed permanently and many more might close within a month.
TORONTO — Restaurants Canada estimates that 800,000 foodservice jobs have already been lost nationwide due to COVID-19 and might not return if current conditions continue.

With restaurants now struggling to pay rent and other bills due in April, the national association has conducted a survey to shed light on the state of the industry. Responses from foodservice operators across the country have revealed:

• Four out of five restaurants have laid off employees since March 1.
• Seven out of 10 foodservice operators will further cut back on staff hours or lay off more employees if conditions do not improve.
• Nearly one out of 10 restaurants have already closed permanently and another 18 per cent will permanently close within a month if current conditions continue....

https://www.restaurantscanada.org/in...since-march-1/

[misher]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Bad news from the restaurant industry:

A Restaurants Canada survey has revealed that many jobs lost due to COVID-19 might not return, as nearly one in 10 restaurants have already closed permanently and many more might close within a month.
TORONTO — Restaurants Canada estimates that 800,000 foodservice jobs have already been lost nationwide due to COVID-19 and might not return if current conditions continue.

With restaurants now struggling to pay rent and other bills due in April, the national association has conducted a survey to shed light on the state of the industry. Responses from foodservice operators across the country have revealed:

• Four out of five restaurants have laid off employees since March 1.
• Seven out of 10 foodservice operators will further cut back on staff hours or lay off more employees if conditions do not improve.
• Nearly one out of 10 restaurants have already closed permanently and another 18 per cent will permanently close within a month if current conditions continue....

https://www.restaurantscanada.org/in...since-march-1/

What I’m wondering is the stats on delivery drivers. I’d expect Skip and other delivery companies to be quadrupling their business if not more.

[GreaterMontréal]

The longer the crisis lasts, the less people will order food from restaurants.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

The longer the crisis lasts, the less people will order food from restaurants.

That is true in general. But I'm quite sure that the fast food places in larger communities that don't rely on travellers will be hurt the least.

In Timmins, I've noticed long drive-thru lines at McDonald's during meal times and other fast food places have enough traffic to keep them alive. Many people will be going for the cheap combo deals. One example is the $5 fill-ups at KFC. Our Tim Hortons locations which are normally always very busy are don't have lines of cars even at normally peak times. I'm surprised that all Tim's locations (except the mall one of course) are still open and open 24 hours.

I'm thinking that Timmins will fare better than most communities due to our natural resources industries and that there aren't as many self-employed people and independent businesses that you would find in most other cities in Ontario and Canada. But it's going to be rough on many working in the services sector just like elsewhere.

Interestingly, the largest sawmill here which is owned by EACOM is actually hiring right now for a number of skilled and non-skilled positions including general labour positions. I wanted to mention that in case there is anybody on here looking for work. And they are union positions if the position isn't management. They are hiring via online applications (Skype, FaceTime, etc.) and will be flexible with start dates due to the current situation. EACOM is hiring in other locations as well and here is the link:

https://www.eacom.ca/en/careers/#id-smart-recuiters

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Loco101

That is true in general. But I'm quite sure that the fast food places in larger communities that don't rely on travellers will be hurt the least.

In Timmins, I've noticed long drive-thru lines at McDonald's during meal times and other fast food places have enough traffic to keep them alive. Many people will be going for the cheap combo deals. One example is the $5 fill-ups at KFC. Our Tim Hortons locations which are normally always very busy are don't have lines of cars even at normally peak times. I'm surprised that all Tim's locations (except the mall one of course) are still open and open 24 hours.

I'm thinking that Timmins will fare better than most communities due to our natural resources industries and that there aren't as many self-employed people and independent businesses that you would find in most other cities in Ontario and Canada. But it's going to be rough on many working in the services sector just like elsewhere.

Interestingly, the largest sawmill here which is owned by EACOM is actually hiring right now for a number of skilled and non-skilled positions including general labour positions. I wanted to mention that in case there is anybody on here looking for work. And they are union positions if the position isn't management. They are hiring via online applications (Skype, FaceTime, etc.) and will be flexible with start dates due to the current situation. EACOM is hiring in other locations as well and here is the link:

https://www.eacom.ca/en/careers/#id-smart-recuiters

Think Chadillac has a chance?

[ssiguy]

Doing deliveries PT deliveries myself, I can say that deliveries are not even remotely close to making up the difference now that the entire front seating area is closed. While many may still be getting deliveries, as the economy continues to collapse, people will be more hesitant to spend their shrinking food budgets on restaurants. Remember too that for sit-in restaurants, they make a very good chunk of their money on drinks. Whether that is just regular or liquor, the markup on them is unbelievable. That $2 glass of Coke probably costs them 3 cents and ditto for the coffee and yet requires almost no labour or overhead. They make $5 profit on that $6 beer and even more on cocktails. Now that non-labour intensive revenue is gone.

There will probably be tens of thousands of small businesses that have closed and will never re-open. Yes, their labour costs are down significantly or completely gone but their rent/lease still has to be paid. Landlords/leasing companies may offer some reprieve for a couple months but will not be able to for long so when their businesses re-open they will have massive amounts of rental/lease fees to be repaid all while the economy is in a deep depression and people have probably already tapped out all their savings and VISA cards. Of course by then, our taxes are going to be going thru the roof to stave off government insolvency and keep basic services running as our debt-to-GDP level soars and you can bet the GST will be the first thing they raise.

Anyone who thinks that the economy will quickly recover after this long crisis is over is delusional.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Loco101

That is true in general. But I'm quite sure that the fast food places in larger communities that don't rely on travellers will be hurt the least.

In Timmins, I've noticed long drive-thru lines at McDonald's during meal times and other fast food places have enough traffic to keep them alive. Many people will be going for the cheap combo deals. One example is the $5 fill-ups at KFC. Our Tim Hortons locations which are normally always very busy are don't have lines of cars even at normally peak times. I'm surprised that all Tim's locations (except the mall one of course) are still open and open 24 hours.

I went to Wendy's last week and discovered that the drive-thru closes way earlier now. There was a sign in the window saying that the stop serving at 12:00AM so they can do preventive maintenance. I take it they mean disinfect, etc. the place as that's why Walmart, etc. are closing early now.

[Acajack]

Judging from the number of cultural events and festivals that continue to be postponed (generally until this fall), in most places I gather we'll have the busiest cultural calendar we've ever seen from September to December. (Provided we are out of this by then.)

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Judging from the number of cultural events and festivals that continue to be postponed (generally until this fall), in most places I gather we'll have the busiest cultural calendar we've ever seen from September to December. (Provided we are out of this by then.)

I've wondered about that - won't many of the major events/festivals find that time will be too short to reorganize for later in the year? Or, if they do so, perhaps on a much smaller scale?