[St. John's] Metro West End Development

[Copes]

Largest Town Wants a Downtown

The Town of CBS is seeking the public's input on plans to develop a 'downtown' main street area. Conception Bay South is unique in that it's an amalgamation of seven separate communities stretched out along 22 km of shoreline. Mayor Woodrow French says, as a result, they've identified two key areas that have the potential to be developed into a 'downtown' hub for business: Long Pond from Terminal Road to Manuels River, and the Kelligrews area. Mayor French says they're hosting a town hall meeting on Tuesday, February 26th at St. George's Elementary to discuss the plans for 'Main Street CBS'.

A facebook group, and website have been set up with more information.

http://www.vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?...31153&latest=1

Links to the referenced website and facebook group are below.

WEBSITE: http://mainstreetcbs.com/

FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/MainStreetCBS

[SignalHillHiker]

Brilliant. CBS is going to easily outshine Mount Pearl and Paradise if they do this properly. And it's fitting as they're the farthest away from downtown St. John's. And, really... who wouldn't want a metro with two cores, one where the sun rises over the sea, the other where the sun sets on it.

[jeddy1989]

Here's the "Study area"


http://mainstreetcbs.com/2013/02/01/about-main-street/

about the main street improvement plan

Since its incorporation in 1973, the Town of Conception Bay South has experienced growth and development that today, with a population of approximately 25,000 residents, the largest town, and the second largest municipality in the province. Development of the community has been largely of a suburban residential nature with a disproportionate ratio of residential to commercial/industrial tax base. Despite the presence of over 500 businesses, there is no cohesive, readily identifiable business district in the community. Instead, commercial development is spread out along the high- way with concentrations of commercial uses in Long Pond/Manuels (around Villa Nova Plaza) and in Kelligrews.

In a 2001 review of the Municipal Plan, these areas were identified as needing further study and improvement. A Main Street Improvement Plan was recommended to concentrate on methods to calm traffic flow, improve vehicle access, parking and pedestrian circulation. Between 2001 and 2012, the Town’s Capital Works in- vestment strategy focused on completing installation of water and sewer services throughout the community. No plan for the main street area was completed, but the need was again identified in a review of the 2001 Municipal Plan (completed in 2012). The 2001 policy to undertake a Main Street Improvement Plan is also included in the new Plan.

Today, there are in the order of 50-60 commercial premises in the Commercial Main Street area, 4 municipal buildings, a church, an elementary school, 2 banks and a third in development, 82 residential properties. There are approximately 343 properties that are partially or entirely within the area with an assessed value in excess of $60 million.

The Town of Conception Bay South recognizes that its downtown commercial district is one of the most visible indicators of the community’s economic and social health. With a number of other priorities addressed, the Town now finds itself in a position to define and improve the appearance and amenity of its Main Street, and to seize on the potential to significantly advance the Town’s position as a progressive and vibrant community.

Study Area

The area included in the Main Street Improvement Plan is largely the area that is designated Commercial in the Town’s Municipal Plan, and zoned Commercial Main Street – essentially the area along Conception Bay Highway between Terminal Road and the Manuels River. The Commercial Main Street Area consists of the historical communities of Foxtrap and Manuels and is bookended by a Sobey’s grocery store to the west and the new Manuels River Interpretation Centre to the east. Also included in the study area is the T’Railway, which runs parallel to the south of Conception Bay Highway and is slated to become a linear park and pedestrian walkway with potential to develop into an initial backbone of a soft transportation network and important downtown amenity.

http://mainstreetcbs.com/2013/02/01/about-main-street/

This is AMAZING news! absolutely fantastic!

This is exactly what the region needs! make hubs and dense pedestrian friendly community centres! this is amazing for smart growth as well as transit!

I think this is one of the steps they are taking in preparation to eventually getting city status.
Also I REALLY hope they build some apartment buildings and condo buildings in their new Downtown. This make me so excited this morning yay! (maybe an office tower or two eventually :O )

[SignalHillHiker]

I'm very excited too.

The weather is just so much better in CBS than it is in St. John's. It's a great place for us to build up as a place where people can live and work without commuting.

[jeddy1989]

They would have an amazing opportunity for a boardwalk! the waterfront could be redeveloped and beautified

Imagine what amazing views a highrise or midrise residential building would have.

[SignalHillHiker]

Yeah, it's gorgeous out there. Especially with Bell Island visible.

[jeddy1989]

Maybe St. John's could have a look at some of these ideas that CBS is researching for Kenmount Road, some small changes could really transform that road.

Look familiar?
https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=kenmou...81.76,,0,16.61

one of the examples of a beautified 4 lane (with some turning)


Before:





After:











These are all from
Bridgeport Way, University Place, WA

http://www.pps.org/reference/bridgep...e-main-street/

[SignalHillHiker]

Brilliant ideas. I think the most important factor for future developments like Kenmount Road is to require parking lots to be behind buildings, not in front of them.

That's one thing many prairie towns do exceptionally well.

Take this one, for example. It's Park Avenue in Beausejour, Manitoba - a town with a population of only about 2,000 people. Yet it looks WAY bigger than ANY community in Newfoundland, excluding St. John's.

Park Avenue has exactly the same types of businesses that line Kenmount Road (and architecture that is equally ugly) - yet it is a pedestrian-friendly street with a real urban feeling.



The biggest contributing factor to the difference is simply a municipal requirement that parking lots be behind buildings, not in front of them. (Some exceptions were approved, of course... but, for the most part, that's what made it liveable).

[Townie709]

Excellent Idea! I would love to see CBS grow to have a fair sized downtown. It would transform what is a suburban town that is heavily reliant on commuting to St. John's, into a very functional city in which you never have to leave your community to work, shop ect. It would probably be the only community worthy of remaining separate from the metro area (amalgamation) because, as of now, it is not as integrated as say Mount Pearl or Paradise.

It's very true that CBS get's way better weather than St. John's, which could be a draw for moving there. I have friends in CBS and whenever i'm out there I can leave the wind rain and fog and arrive in a sunny paradise 5 degrees warmer than the city. (no pun intended!) I love the idea of a boardwalk! I would be quite happy to move to an alternate-universe-future-dense CBS in which there is a reasonably sized downtown and increased business and residential density. I love the better weather, I love functional communities, and I love being close to the water and the views of Conception Bay! I hope this "Main Street" plan will amount to much more than "inserting bulk barn here" and"build 2 story office building here"

I would love for CBS to be a model community on the Avalon

[jeddy1989]

Here's a video of the mayor of CBS talking about it

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada...ID/2336806601/

[Townie709]

It doesn't sound like too much of a change at this point in time. Mostly just aesthetic stuff like flowers, trees, town clock, benches, that kind of stuff. It sounds like they are trying to do something similar to what Grand Falls has done, which is a great start. I hope CBS doesn't stop at the aesthetic stuff and tries to increase density in the "downtown area" in the eventual future.

They are headed in the right direction and have the right mindset though, unlike some communities.. *cough* PARADISE *cough*

[Trevor3]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Brilliant ideas. I think the most important factor for future developments like Kenmount Road is to require parking lots to be behind buildings, not in front of them.

That's one thing many prairie towns do exceptionally well.

Take this one, for example. It's Park Avenue in Beausejour, Manitoba - a town with a population of only about 2,000 people. Yet it looks WAY bigger than ANY community in Newfoundland, excluding St. John's.

Park Avenue has exactly the same types of businesses that line Kenmount Road (and architecture that is equally ugly) - yet it is a pedestrian-friendly street with a real urban feeling.

The biggest contributing factor to the difference is simply a municipal requirement that parking lots be behind buildings, not in front of them. (Some exceptions were approved, of course... but, for the most part, that's what made it liveable).

That photo of Beausejour looks, in my opinion, a lot like High Street in downtown Grand Falls-Windsor. Here's a link to Google streetview of High Street, which has since been upgraded with new sidewalks, street lighting etc..., it looks much more attractive today than it does here. I also think Corner Brook's West St and Broadway shopping areas look bigger, just saying

That aside, this is great for CBS. There are very few places in Newfoundland with good downtown shopping/commercial areas outside of St. John's, especially on the east coast. The tricky part is going to be encouraging street front developments. It has been suggested that parking be put behind buildings, but guaranteed we will hear business owners complain that it will take traffic off the main street and defeat the purpose of having the storefront on the sidewalk (it won't).

It's almost a trademark of Newfoundland towns: a commercial area along the main drag with big parking lots stuck out in front of scattered and spaced out buildings. It's prominent in Deer Lake, Lewisporte, Gander to a degree, Clarenville, etc... All of these places should take note of CBS and try to develop neat little downtowns, and yeah, densify a little. It really adds a ton and makes the town feel more developed, just stand on Main Street in Stephenville and tell me if it doesn't at least feel lively.

I look forward to walking through downtown CBS in the future! Hopefully it can lead to a little more identity as well, and not just as a bedroom of St. John's.

[SignalHillHiker]

Stephenville is a great example. It's proper main street makes it feel like a wonderful place to be.

[Architype]

I always thought CBS would have to try to create a centre for itself. As it grows this should become more possible and a more obvious requirment. Aesthetic improvements are a good place to start, but a real town centre must include more people living right there, therefore more urban styled developments, including commercial, public, and residential, would be needed to make it become anything substantial.

[jeddy1989]

Meeting on Downtown CBS Tonight

A meeting is taking place tonight on the concept of developing a downtown area in Conception Bay South. It's one of a series of public meetings planned over the next few weeks. The town, which is made up of seven separate communities stretching 22 km along the shore of Conception Bay, doesn't have a defined area to call a downtown. Mayor Woody French says they've identified two separate areas for development: one in the Long Pond-Manuel's area, and another in Kelligrews. He told VOCM Open Line with Paddy Daly they're coming up with a Main Street development plan with the help of ACOA.


The meeting is taking place 7:00 to 9:00 pm at St. George’s Elementary School.

http://www.vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?mn=2&id=31384

[Copes]

Ha I just posted in Steel Toed Boots to find out if anyone is going.

[mrjanejacobs]

Hey folks - It's great to see so much discussion on the possibilities for the CBS main street. I have been chewing on these ideas a lot since the redevelopment was announced. I am a little hesitant to buy into it considering elections are coming up and it could just be a shameless promotion of incumbents to get reelected.

With that said - I got really excited at first because so many things could be done that could induce some really foundational changes in the town.

However, after researching a bit more and reading some reports like the CBS Municipal Plan and hearing Woodrow speak on the news - my hopes are dwindling. Woodrow talks about a 'town clock, benches, and decorative lighting' - purely aesthetic interventions... I am not saying that these aren't a great start but apparently the standards for redevelopment are low.

Let's talk about the purely linear arrangement of our downtown - it's really not going to help in densifying and making the downtown more livable and walkable. What are our options? I would like to propose parking lots retrofits particularly in the Villa Nova Plaza, Shoppers parking lot, Dominion parking lot, parcel of land adjacent to the town hall. To make these areas more dense with commercial activity and require less distance to access parking. Watch this video that was also posted on the CBS MainStreet website, it's fantastic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyxXB...layer_embedded

[statbass]

Originally Posted by mrjanejacobs

Hey folks - It's great to see so much discussion on the possibilities for the CBS main street. I have been chewing on these ideas a lot since the redevelopment was announced. I am a little hesitant to buy into it considering elections are coming up and it could just be a shameless promotion of incumbents to get reelected.

With that said - I got really excited at first because so many things could be done that could induce some really foundational changes in the town.

However, after researching a bit more and reading some reports like the CBS Municipal Plan and hearing Woodrow speak on the news - my hopes are dwindling. Woodrow talks about a 'town clock, benches, and decorative lighting' - purely aesthetic interventions... I am not saying that these aren't a great start but apparently the standards for redevelopment are low.

Let's talk about the purely linear arrangement of our downtown - it's really not going to help in densifying and making the downtown more livable and walkable. What are our options? I would like to propose parking lots retrofits particularly in the Villa Nova Plaza, Shoppers parking lot, Dominion parking lot, parcel of land adjacent to the town hall. To make these areas more dense with commercial activity and require less distance to access parking. Watch this video that was also posted on the CBS MainStreet website, it's fantastic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyxXB...layer_embedded

Great ideas (and video) and welcome to the forums!

[mrjanejacobs]

Thanks statbass - glad to be here.

I don't want to be a party-pooper in this conversation. I am really not convinced, however, that anything bold and foundation-changing will be occurring with this redevelopment. I think it's mainly for-show, paired with political opportunism from populist politicians. I really hate to be so cynical but this town is a mess and no one is interested in taking responsibility for it and there are certainly no planners (who are responsible or qualified, for that matter).

[SignalHillHiker]

I've been getting that impression as well. Oh well... at least it'll be slightly better. But, yeah, I won't be driving out there to enjoy summer evenings if it's a bench and some planters.

And WELCOME!