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  #141  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2019, 5:52 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Well BC is receiving "equalization" from Mainland China so...


Trade?
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  #142  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2019, 5:54 PM
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Trade?
The guy is a racist, pay him zero attention, he isn't deserving of a dignified response.
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  #143  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2019, 5:56 PM
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Dominion? The main (only?) reason we're in this mess is because the Brits saddled us with policies and institutions meant for subservient colonies. Damn near every major problem in the world can be traced back to those stupid assholes and you want to keep emulating that shit? Manitoba would be a million times better off separated from Canada. How many more times do you need to get fucked over by the Liberal elites in the east before you understand that? For you personally the best solution is probably to move back to Britain since you think they have such a shit hot system.
Do you like anybody? A lot of bitterness in all those points. I guess Canada has been a terrible failure as a country. I guess that not having a war on Canadian territory since 1814 is a sign of failure.

Manitoba would be in the middle of nothingness as part of a separate country. I am sure it would flourish.

Perhaps Alberta and Saskatchewan should consider moving into the 21st century economy. Being so dependent on natural resources and with the world moving away from oil, is not going to lead to a happy ending unless there is diversification.
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  #144  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2019, 6:01 PM
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It's very windy and sunny in Alberta I recommend continuing on with wind and solar investment.
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  #145  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2019, 9:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 1ajs View Post
actuly they are trying to get their books in order so they dont need the transfers and feel like they get to much from what ive been reading
every province gets transfers.
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  #146  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2019, 9:34 PM
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It's very windy and sunny in Alberta I recommend continuing on with wind and solar investment.
Wind has a chance although I believe it’s windier in California and a lot more sunny. Nuclear is probably the best.
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  #147  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2019, 10:09 PM
NotToScale NotToScale is offline
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The guy is a racist, pay him zero attention, he isn't deserving of a dignified response.
How was that comment racist?
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  #148  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2019, 10:10 PM
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Nuclear makes the most sense for Alberta, given our rapid population growth, though obviously we have enormous wind and solar potential which should be (and is being) exploited as well. Nuclear making the most sense because of our extremely cold riverine resources, being one of the most seismically stable regions on the planet, and being close to the largest deposits of uranium on the planet (Sask).
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  #149  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2019, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor View Post
This response is completely uncalled for. I never personally insulted anyone. I get it you're an albertan and you love the province. I also know you are not one of these mouth breathing idiots throwing a fit, I know not everyone in alberta is like this, but a recent poll showed 37% of albertans supported this wexit nonsense. Your province has an issue with far right extremism and you need to get a handle over it. It's not the ROC's fault that your province has a lot of extremists.
far right extremists? ok
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  #150  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2019, 10:37 PM
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How was that comment racist?
Everything you don't agree with is racism these days!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...-chinese-money
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  #151  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2019, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Chadillaccc View Post
Nuclear makes the most sense for Alberta, given our rapid population growth, though obviously we have enormous wind and solar potential which should be (and is being) exploited as well. Nuclear making the most sense because of our extremely cold riverine resources, being one of the most seismically stable regions on the planet, and being close to the largest deposits of uranium on the planet (Sask).
The issue I have with nuclear energy is that in the rare but very likely future scenario of a large solar storm, our electrical grids could be fried. To the point where repair could take years.... these nuclear plants need constant cooling (which requires hydro), and if the grid is fried.... these plants become mini nuclear bombs. Anywhere within 10-20KM becomes incinerated and radioactive. I know nuclear plants have safeguards in place (massive generators, etc), I have always had deep concerns about this energy source. Research back to the Carrington Event in the 1800s, something of that magnitude or greater could spell trouble.
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  #152  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2019, 10:57 PM
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The issue I have with nuclear energy is that in the rare but very likely future scenario of a large solar storm, our electrical grids could be fried. To the point where repair could take years.... these nuclear plants need constant cooling (which requires hydro), and if the grid is fried.... these plants become mini nuclear bombs. Anywhere within 10-20KM becomes incinerated and radioactive. I know nuclear plants have safeguards in place (massive generators, etc), I have always had deep concerns about this energy source. Research back to the Carrington Event in the 1800s, something of that magnitude or greater could spell trouble.
This has been studied and it appears that modern nuclear plants are safe.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesco.../#2a75b7a170cb

Quote:
Can Nuclear Power Plants Resist Attacks Of Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP)?

Yes. Specifically, the small modular nuclear reactor company, NuScale, out of Oregon, has made their reactor resistant to electromagnetic pulses (EMP) and most other reactor designs should follow.

EMPs are one of those things that many people think is fake, or over-blown, or a conspiracy theorist’s dream. But they are real. EMPs can be either natural, from things like extreme solar geomagnetic disturbances, or man-made like a large thermonuclear detonation or a cyberattack. If they are coordinated with physical attacks then things can get real dicey real fast.

As the U.S. Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from EMP Attack points out, “the physical and social fabric of the United States is sustained by a system of systems - a complex and dynamic network of interlocking and interdependent infrastructures whose harmonious functioning enables the myriad actions, transactions, and information flow that undergird the orderly conduct of civil society.”


According to the Commission, EMP effects represent arguably the largest-scale common-cause failure events that could affect our electric power grid and undermine our society, leaving it vulnerable on many fronts. High-voltage control cables and large transformers that control the grid are particularly vulnerable. Transformers weigh 400 tons, take two years to build, and cost $7 million apiece. We are already way behind in having backup transformers ready, so if many go out at once, we have a big problem powering our country...
The Nuclear Regulatory Commission tracks this issue closely, and has been examining these issues for more than 30 years, starting in the late 1970s when the agency studied how EMP could affect nuclear power plant safe-shutdown systems. The agency concluded as recently as two years ago that nuclear power plants can safely shut down following an EMP event. NRC drafted a rule last year on maintaining key plant safety functions after a severe event, particularly on how to keep spent fuel pools cool.

On the other hand, Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) just came out with a 2019 report that says the threats are not as grim as these past studies imply. They found the potential impacts of EMPs on transmission substations do not include long-lasting blackouts, national grid failure and mass casualties, as previously reported. Instead they would lead to regional service interruptions.

"We did not see the dire consequences that some of the other reports have documented," said Randy Horton, senior program manager at EPRI.

EPRI did advise using options such as shielded cables and low-voltage surge suppression devices or filters, diverting the extra surge to the ground.

Regardless of source or level of risk, protection of electric power plants, and upgrading our infrastructure, will be essential in preventing long term outages and in restarting portions of the grid that have failed in the face of wide-area threats...
Nuclear power plants have a special place in any strategy because of perceived threats of meltdowns of the core and of nuclear fuel pools, as well as from public concern over all things nuclear. But in addition, nuclear plants could be the most likely power generators to restart quickest after a pulse and would be the baseload power that could keep critical parts of society operating.

At present, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission has no regulatory framework to address the EMP risk to nuclear power stations, although NRC is currently working to create new fuel storage standards and most nuclear plants are EMP-hardening their back-up generators.

So while there are differing opinions as to the direct threat of an EMP to a nuclear power plant, it is generally agreed that the threat should not be ignored.

So NuScale didn’t ignore it, and set about to actively deter EMP effects in the design of their new small modular nuclear reactor (SMR). NuScale’s SMR is already the most resilient, reliable and flexible of any energy source in history, with Black-Start Capability, Island Mode and First Responder Power, without needing external grid connections, capable of withstanding earthquakes, category 5 hurricanes and F5 tornados, planes crashing into it, floods, and cyberattacks. Now it has added EMP threats and geomagnetic disturbances.

Fortunately, NuScale is the first SMR company to file a license and design certification application with the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, and it is the first one to have the NRC complete their Phase 1 review – in record time. So the first unit should roll out in only a few years.

NuScale evaluated support systems of their SMR as either likely vulnerable or inherently resilient to an EMP. The evaluation involved a qualitative vulnerability assessment of above and below ground subsystems, including communications, controls, switches, transformers and machinery within the SMR with special attention to the nuclear plant’s ability to safely shut down and the potential to provide continuous power during and after exposure to an EMP pulse.

Several design features allow the SMR to withstand an EMP attack. There are no safety-related electrical loads, including pumps and electric motor-operated safety valves. Because natural convective core heat removal is used, electrically-operated pumps are not needed to circulate coolant. This means that, if necessary, the reactor can shut down and cool itself for indefinite periods without the need for human intervention, adding water, or external electrical power. So the inherent safety of the reactor is impervious to an EMP and can’t melt-down due to an event.

But just being safe isn’t good enough. It would be great to be able to start up right away or, better yet, keep operating right through the event, so that power is available to mitigate, recover and respond to the worst of attack.

The SMR can go into Island Mode operation, not requiring a connection to the grid to provide electrical power, and allowing for a rapid recovery to full power following the event. The reactor modules can keep safely running and go into stand-by mode

such that they can be rapidly put back into service.

Also, safety-related systems are electrically-isolated from the main plant electrical system, and all sensor cables penetrate the reactor containment vessel at a single location (containment vessel top plate), thereby reducing the EMP pathway.

In addition, the reactor building provides effective electric shielding of EMPs by being several-foot thick concrete walls laced with steel rebar, effectively making it into a Faraday Cage, which is an enclosure or structure that can block an electromagnetic field.

Electrical conducting lines are underground, which significantly attenuates the first burst effects. NuScale uses redundant fiber optic cable for communication links, which are immune to EMP effects.

The NuScale plants feature multiple reactors, multiple turbine generators, an Auxiliary AC Power Source (AAPS), two 2MW backup diesel generators for blackstarting the plant, multiple main power transformers (MPTs) and unit auxiliary transformers (UATs), and redundant backup battery banks. Such redundancy is essential for addressing these complex threats.

The design also provides good grounding practices, lightning protection systems, surge arrestors for connections to the switchyard, delta-wye transformers, and circumferentially-bonded stainless-steel piping.

So new nuclear plants are able to be designed, and old ones upgraded, to withstand EMPs better than most energy systems. Their inherent isolation from the rest of the world is similar to why they can so effectively withstand cyberattacks.
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  #153  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2019, 11:26 PM
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Vid of course is exactly right on this. Anyone who takes the position that we should just be blindly barreling (pardon the pun) ahead with oil is just in basket case territory. There's legitimate debate in terms of how fast it's feasible to transition away from it but that's about it. I recall the Atlantic fisheries even had some similarity to this situation in the sense that for year scientists were warning that harvesting fish at those levels was unsustainable and that we risked a total collapse of the stock, but there was very little attempt to cut back due to political considerations.

Once the numbers dropped so drastically that there was no other choice but to cut harvesting, there were still many people in the Atlantic region who were mad and disagreed with the decision. They saw the dept. of fisheries and oceans as this extension of government authority from outside the region being wielded by unsympathetic people who weren't being directly harmed by their decisions. It sounds crazy but that's what people are like. They aren't rational when it comes to money and they vent their anger in whatever manner is most comforting.

Sometimes I wonder whether having such a geography makes stuff like this more harmful since there will inevitably be cases where natural resource industries are limited to sub regions. It's hard to say but I'd guess that if the oil industry were spread more evenly across the country it might make for greater national unity but it would make difficult decisions such as to phase out fossil fuel production even more difficult or perhaps impossible. If the people in those AB and SK who currently voted 80% against anything that disrupts the oil sector were spread evenly across the country, there would probably have been a blue majority since not only did they win the popular vote, but people influence one another and those economic fears could easily have influenced more of the population. On the other hand, if you didn't have an entire region so directly dependent on one industry, maybe no one would be so freaked out about its decline.

Either way, what we really need is a strategy to move forward, develop a new economy, and focus on the positive. There's nothing productive in pretending that nothing needs to change.
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  #154  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Vid of course is exactly right on this. Anyone who takes the position that we should just be blindly barreling (pardon the pun) ahead with oil is just in basket case territory. There's legitimate debate in terms of how fast it's feasible to transition away from it but that's about it. I recall the Atlantic fisheries even had some similarity to this situation in the sense that for year scientists were warning that harvesting fish at those levels was unsustainable and that we risked a total collapse of the stock, but there was very little attempt to cut back due to political considerations.

Once the numbers dropped so drastically that there was no other choice but to cut harvesting, there were still many people in the Atlantic region who were mad and disagreed with the decision. They saw the dept. of fisheries and oceans as this extension of government authority from outside the region being wielded by unsympathetic people who weren't being directly harmed by their decisions. It sounds crazy but that's what people are like. They aren't rational when it comes to money and they vent their anger in whatever manner is most comforting.

Sometimes I wonder whether having such a geography makes stuff like this more harmful since there will inevitably be cases where natural resource industries are limited to sub regions. It's hard to say but I'd guess that if the oil industry were spread more evenly across the country it might make for greater national unity but it would make difficult decisions such as to phase out fossil fuel production even more difficult or perhaps impossible. If the people in those AB and SK who currently voted 80% against anything that disrupts the oil sector were spread evenly across the country, there would probably have been a blue majority since not only did they win the popular vote, but people influence one another and those economic fears could easily have influenced more of the population. On the other hand, if you didn't have an entire region so directly dependent on one industry, maybe no one would be so freaked out about its decline.

Either way, what we really need is a strategy to move forward, develop a new economy, and focus on the positive. There's nothing productive in pretending that nothing needs to change.
Yep but oil is nowhere near ending the way fishing was. Fishing had 5-10 years of life left when we were worried while oil likely has 30-50 years left if not longer. Remember that even if we phase out oil consumption in cars and short flights, we still can't get around fueling long distance flights or marine trade without fossil fuels. I'm sure technologies to do so will come out but likely we won't have working versions ready for the market for at least 20 more years if not longer.

We also don't have any good alternatives to plastic in large quantities. In addition, we also require oil to make carbon fibre and other materials. Even if we stop burning fossil fuels for transportation we will need them for many other products. Infact, with how material science is advancing, its very well possible that we will require oil for more products in the future not less. Oil is honestly a great source of carbon molecules and most of our advanced materials require carbon molecules. As we shift away from metal and more towards carbon based alternatives its predictable that we will require a large supply of carbon. In the past 40 years non-energy use of oil has increased 50%. I wouldn't be surprised if it increases another 50% in the next 10.


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  #155  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 12:10 AM
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It isn't ending immediately in the sense that it isn't there but that it isn't feasible to continue in the previous way as I'm sure most of us are familiar enough with as to not require a detailed explanation. But yes, point taken that so two situations aren't 100% identical. That wasn't what was being suggested.
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  #156  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
It isn't ending immediately in the sense that it isn't there but that it isn't feasible to continue in the previous way as I'm sure most of us are familiar enough with as to not require a detailed explanation. But yes, point taken that so two situations aren't 100% identical. That wasn't what was being suggested.
Yep but now we have two competing priorities. We have people saying shut it down its bad for the environment. And people saying be careful it won't last forever.

I think everyone in Alberta and Canada realizes the 2nd is true but thats the same for everything. In the end we might stop using cars or airplanes someday. We might stop using shoes or eating plants or meat someday. In the end I think only the most wildest predictions would say the demand for oil will stop in the next 30 years. While Alberta should diversify (and it appears to be doing so), I don't see a big need to "rush" this.
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  #157  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by misher View Post
Yep but oil is nowhere near ending the way fishing was. Fishing had 5-10 years of life left when we were worried while oil likely has 30-50 years left if not longer. Remember that even if we phase out oil consumption in cars and short flights, we still can't get around fueling long distance flights or marine trade without fossil fuels. I'm sure technologies to do so will come out but likely we won't have working versions ready for the market for at least 20 more years if not longer.

We also don't have any good alternatives to plastic in large quantities. In addition, we also require oil to make carbon fibre and other materials. Even if we stop burning fossil fuels for transportation we will need them for many other products. Infact, with how material science is advancing, its very well possible that we will require oil for more products in the future not less. Oil is honestly a great source of carbon molecules and most of our advanced materials require carbon molecules. As we shift away from metal and more towards carbon based alternatives its predictable that we will require a large supply of carbon. In the past 40 years non-energy use of oil has increased 50%. I wouldn't be surprised if it increases another 50% in the next 10.
And this is exactly why we need to burn as little oil as possible, so that it lasts as long as possible.
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  #158  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 12:39 AM
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Alberta is like that rich East Indian kid who drove his BMW into a river because it wasn't a Ferrari. They're having a "depression" with better economic vitals than my city, which is saying it's "prospering".

Obviously, we know who the snowflake of confederation is.

But, take it from me. Economic depression isn't too bad. I make less each year than the average Albertan spends on blow in a month and I'm on track to buy a house.
LOL, many of the Albertan whiners certainly are snowflakes!

Your comparison to the rich East Indian kid is pretty accurate. I spent a fair amount of time in Calgary and Edmonton as well as rural Alberta during the Summer. They are doing much better than what I've seen in Northern Ontario when forestry and mining aren't doing well. And they vote for people who want corporate tax cuts thinking that it will be a solution?!?
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  #159  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 12:54 AM
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It's very windy and sunny in Alberta I recommend continuing on with wind and solar investment.
There's a lot more room for more turbines in Pincher Creek and the surrounding area.
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  #160  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 12:57 AM
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There's a lot more room for more turbines in Pincher Creek and the surrounding area.
If you look at maps of North America there are better areas for wind and solar power in the US plus probably better tax incentives in California.
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