Does Western Alienation exist, and how can we fix it?

[dleung]

I think BC, AB/SK, and Quebec should be their own countries lol. Canada will be a mini-EU. Don't know how Quebec will keep the lights on though

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by dleung

I think BC, AB/SK, and Quebec should be their own countries lol. Canada will be a mini-EU. Don't know how Quebec will keep the lights on though

actuly they are trying to get their books in order so they dont need the transfers and feel like they get to much from what ive been reading

[Bcasey25raptor]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

She definitely is when it comes to this topic and several others.

Oh really, name those other topics. I post on these forums so rarely that it seems hugely unlikely to me that you have any idea what my views are.

Again. Polls show 37% of Albertans support wexit. That’s a large number. Your province has a problem.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by vid

Iran just made a new discovery, 50 billion barrels of oil reserves. Iran can't sell oil to Canada. Iran can sell oil to China. Is Trans-Mountain even necessary now? Why would China want our overpriced oil when nearby, friendly Iran is about to start a blowout sale on the stuff?

There is more to the world than Alberta and its environs. The iron curtain falling resulted in over 1,500 Thunder Bayers losing their jobs. A single event on the other side of the planet killed our economy. The internet took out the other half. No one needs printed newspapers anymore. We have smartphones. Another 2,500 jobs gone in half a decade. Back in 1985, no one saw either of these things coming. We predicted Thunder Bay would have half a million people in 2020. Two inevitable things that no one in Canada, let alone Thunder Bay, could ever hope to control.

It'll happen to you, too!! We could build all the pipelines, but by 2050, what is there to stop Calgary from ending up like Pittsburgh? Cleveland? Detroit? Railways were the lifeblood of my city. The scars upon which they once traveled are now walking trails for explorers of a past era. Entire rail yards populated by ghosts. There used to be an iron industry in this region. Our mountains are literally called "The Iron Range". No one works in that sector in this region anymore. From thousands, to 0, in a generation. Don't think it can't happen. Don't act like you can prevent it.

This and your previous post above are two of the best on the entire thread.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

This and your previous post above are two of the best on the entire thread.

I agree.

No matter what Kenney wants, The oil industry is going to contract over the next half century, and the province should be planning on diversifying it's economy now.

This is also a caution to the Wexiteers. You might think you're better off without Canada now, but you might be singing a different tune in 30-40 years..........

[flar]

If Alberta wants to see its future if they hang their hat on oil, they should look at the rust belt. Detroit was once the Paris of North America, a great dynamic city with gleaming skyscrapers. Now they are bankrupt.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I agree.

No matter what Kenney wants, The oil industry is going to contract over the next half century, and the province should be planning on diversifying it's economy now.

This is also a caution to the Wexiteers. You might think you're better off without Canada now, but you might be singing a different tune in 30-40 years..........

Wexit is NOT a thing. Its just that today's social media has allowed the blowhards more of a platform to be the gas flare.

What is not helping is the snarky comments from the usual suspects. While they mostly have facts on their side, the condescending tone just adds oxygen to the fire. They just have to hold their commentary for a few weeks to allow the fire to burn out.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

But I've been to canada's 4 largest cities and spent enough time in them to know that the east does NOT hate the west, but I saw so much hatred of the east in Calgary when I was there that I was shouted down when I called it out. I.

I'd agree there isn't much hate for the West or the Prairies or even Alberta in the rest of the country, but if we are honest there is some condescension.

I don't want to lay the blame solely on AB-SK but the condescension is likely to go nowhere but up given the immaturity of some of the political discourse we are hearing these days.

[goodgrowth]

Saying "we need to diversify the economy" is typically an oxymoron (similar to having a "Bureau of Competition") when used because people mean "government should be diversifying the economy". Any top down approach (ie government) is going to have the opposite effect of "diversification". If you really wanted a diversified economy you would create a 100% even playing field(ie flat tax and no tax credits) and literally do nothing else. No intervention to save dying industries in the name of jobs....no intervention to "invest" in new industries to create jobs.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

Saying "we need to diversify the economy" is typically an oxymoron (similar to having a "Bureau of Competition") when used because people mean "government should be diversifying the economy". Any top down approach (ie government) is going to have the opposite effect of "diversification". If you really wanted a diversified economy you would create a 100% even playing field(ie flat tax and no tax credits) and literally do nothing else. No intervention to save dying industries in the name of jobs....no intervention to "invest" in new industries to create jobs.

The government can provide direction, and can give grants or funding to kickstart change.

In the late 1980s, Moncton had a near death experience. Moncton traditionally was a railway town with 5,000 people employed at the CNR shops facility. It closed, and in short order, CFB Moncton and the Eatons catalogue warehouse in the city also closed, with the loss of about 2,500 other jobs.

7,500 jobs is a huge loss for an urban area at the time of about 80,000 people. Obituaries were being written for the city, and comparisons were being made to the languor of industrial Cape Breton, but a small group of civic business leaders decided that the time was not right to give up the ghost, and with the help of Premier Frank McKenna and federal assistance plans, this railway town reinvented itself with IT and customer contact jobs, and bolstered some pre-existing strengths in health care, education, distribution, transportation, banking and insurance to create a regional economic success story. The population of the city has doubled since the 1980s.

Before the CNR shops closure, Moncton had been complacent about its role as a railway town. The near death experience of the shops closure gave the city the kick it needed to explore other opportunities and move on into a different type of future; more successful than it was before.

The same can be true for Alberta.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

This and your previous post above are two of the best on the entire thread.

Agreed! Very interesting info too.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Agreed! Very interesting info too.

See people? Lio and I can be nice to vid.

When he deserves it.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I'd agree there isn't much hate for the West or the Prairies or even Alberta in the rest of the country, but if we are honest there is some condescension.

I don't want to lay the blame solely on AB-SK but the condescension is likely to go nowhere but up given the immaturity of some of the political discourse we are hearing these days.

These days?

Maybe we've just had it good for the past little bit, but immature political discourse is de rigueur for this country.

Naturally, social media just amplifies it to an absurd degree.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wave46

These days?

Maybe we've just had it good for the past little bit, but immature political discourse is de rigueur for this country.

Naturally, social media just amplifies it to an absurd degree.

The #wexit and equalization blather have reached new heights of political immaturity, I'd argue.

[lrt's friend]

What irks me is how Alberta in particular expects the rest of the country to accept Reform politics which has subverted the conservative movement federally.

They don't ask the questions on how the conservative movement can be made attractive in Canada's major cities outside of Alberta. Instead, they want to re-enforce Reform attitudes.

I get nervous when I hear stories that people are afraid to post signs for other parties in Alberta for fear of being ridiculed or worse by their neighbours. They are fostering pack mentality not so much different from Quebec in the 70s, 80s and 90s.

[north 42]

Originally Posted by flar

If Alberta wants to see its future if they hang their hat on oil, they should look at the rust belt. Detroit was once the Paris of North America, a great dynamic city with gleaming skyscrapers. Now they are bankrupt.

Correction, Detroit was bankrupt, but is now enjoying a major investment surge not seen in over 50 years, I get what you were trying to say though.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The #wexit and equalization blather have reached new heights of political immaturity, I'd argue.

Like a hangover that happened far in the past, I'd imagine that the immediate one feels worse than the one that happened years ago.

If Albertans start trampling the Canadian flag (see: Brockville of the ealy 1990s) I'd say you're onto something.

The immediate discourse seems to revolve around a handful of people who are extraordinarily vocal and the silent majority who probably don't care nearly as much.

The palpable condescending tone from the Eastern crowd doesn't help advance the discourse much. If oil is as doomed as people say, economics will fix the problem far better than any carbon tax will.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Ottawa's money? Let's see how long the rest of you last when you realize that either your taxes will have to increase dramatically or the benefits you receive need to be severely cut. The sense of entitlement from some of you is just about reason enough for AB and SK to leave.

Cool story bro. BC is doing fine without any equalization, and despite different rounds of industry collapse in our past.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Cool story bro. BC is doing fine without any equalization, and despite different rounds of industry collapse in our past.

Well BC is receiving "equalization" from Mainland China so...

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I agree.

No matter what Kenney wants, The oil industry is going to contract over the next half century, and the province should be planning on diversifying it's economy now.

This is also a caution to the Wexiteers. You might think you're better off without Canada now, but you might be singing a different tune in 30-40 years..........

As with climate change in general. The best time to act was 20 years ago, the second best time is now.