Economic News Affecting St. John's

[Architype]

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly

I say let the kids work!

For those of you that are sovereignists, nationalists, or separatists, I will remind you, that was very much the reality before confederation. The good old days of independence.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by cam477

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...court-722.html

In a press release, Hydro-Québec says the 1969 Churchill Falls power deal gives the company “certain essential rights.”

No kidding!

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by Architype

For those of you that are sovereignists, nationalists, or separatists, I will remind you, that was very much the reality before confederation. The good old days of independence.

lol what does that have to do with being a modern day sovereignist? if you say to people what life was like in scotland before they were a part of the united kingdom suggesting things would go back to a way in the past is a little silly.

[Marty_Mcfly]

Originally Posted by Architype

For those of you that are sovereignists, nationalists, or separatists, I will remind you, that was very much the reality before confederation. The good old days of independence.

I think my grandmother started general labour around her parents farm at the age of 8; and finally started working for money around 14 or so. In contrast my first job was when I was 17, and my first "real-person" job was when I was 23

[Architype]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

lol what does that have to do with being a modern day sovereignist? if you say to people what life was like in scotland before they were a part of the united kingdom suggesting things would go back to a way in the past is a little silly.

Touché, it may not be fair to connect the two altogether, as it may have applied elsewhere anyway, but I have found there is a lot of misinformation and revisionist history floating around regarding those subjects. Anyway, it was meant more as a joke than anything else. Confederation may have just coincided with the modern age, and I don't think people should blame all Nfld's problems and the suburbanization of St. John's, for instance, on confederation with Canada. The process actually had already started before 1949, and would have continued anyway regardless. Sorry, that's a bit of a tangent.

[SignalHillHiker]

I subscribe to the view that we weren't really that bad off in relation to everyone else. Vast areas of the United States are poorer TODAY than we were then. We had more wealth inequality than in Canada (like the United States of today, we had extreme wealth and relative poverty). Incomes were only 1/3 of those in Canada, but our expenses were much less as well.

Our problems prior to Confederation were not fixed by Canada - most countries had (and many still have) similar problems, such as indebted servitude.

The idea that a country that treats us relatively poorly, and certainly not with the soft gloves it treats Quebec, saved us - as opposed to us simply progressing with the rest of the developed world - strikes me as a bit inaccurate.

We were basically sold to Canada by Britain to pay off its war debts. And we know the Canadians only wanted us so they'd have real access to the Atlantic, hydroelectric resources to power Central Canada, and prevent the Americans from getting us like Alaska.

[SignalHillHiker]

And I still can't believe people fell for it.

"We are not a nation. We are a medium-sized municipality." - Joseph R. Smallwood.

Seriously? And people still voted for him? Absolutely pathetic.

And then we wonder why that's all that Canada treated us as.

[Architype]

I've been reading a bit about this and I don't think it's as cut and dry as is made out to be. The fact is Nfld. had no social programs, hardly any infrastructure at the time. The reason there was any money and prosperity around that time was a result of the war and the Americans. Simply put, I don't think it would have ever gone well for an independent Nfld., and that it never did before either. I think it's just a nice romantic notion.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

And I still can't believe people fell for it.

"We are not a nation. We are a medium-sized municipality." - Joseph R. Smallwood.

Seriously? And people still voted for him? Absolutely pathetic.

And then we wonder why that's all that Canada treated us as.

Well, I think Smallwood may have been a bit unrealistic, misguided and perhaps under qualified, and a bit of a dictator (Williams was also the latter), but he is vilified way too much. But those were different times. He never had any real ulterior motives than to better the province. However, there is quite a list of conspiracy theories going around, as per Greg Malone's book, etc.. I don't think Newfoundland was ever "sold"; people voted democratically for confederation. Sometimes things are just exactly what they appear to be and no more. Newfoundland was not just St. John's, even less so then, and even St. John's itself was full of poverty. Look at what our built heritage actually is; beside Water Street, the biggest industry was the Roman Catholic Church. Newfoundland also gave up it's truly independent status back in the 1930s; that's twice, and not a coincidence.

Anyway, I know some people disagree, and this is only my opinion, being said because there is so much propaganda from the other side - it made me look at these issues seriously, and that is my conclusion, at least for now.

[SignalHillHiker]

Oh, it's fine. I disagree completely, passionately - but you're still awesome, of course.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Oh, it's fine. I disagree completely, passionately - but you're still awesome, of course.

Thanks, but no, not so awesome. Yes, I know you disagree - you would think that with all the oil wealth Nfld. could be independent, but look at the facts - the government is still running a deficit, Nfld's population is small and extremely spread out, there is no agricultural land, lots of bays and rugged territory with small communities, making it a very expensive place to run efficiently. And, I don't think Newfoundlanders could wait another 60 years without roads, services, all that sort of thing. And, never mind the collapse of the fishery - what would have happened to an independent Newfoundland after the main industry all but disappeared in the 90s? I think Nfld. is the victim more of geography, and a bit of unfortunate colonialist history and politics - I think any blame lies more with Britain, not with Canada.

[PoscStudent]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I subscribe to the view that we weren't really that bad off in relation to everyone else. Vast areas of the United States are poorer TODAY than we were then. We had more wealth inequality than in Canada (like the United States of today, we had extreme wealth and relative poverty). Incomes were only 1/3 of those in Canada, but our expenses were much less as well.

Our problems prior to Confederation were not fixed by Canada - most countries had (and many still have) similar problems, such as indebted servitude.

The idea that a country that treats us relatively poorly, and certainly not with the soft gloves it treats Quebec, saved us - as opposed to us simply progressing with the rest of the developed world - strikes me as a bit inaccurate.

We were basically sold to Canada by Britain to pay off its war debts. And we know the Canadians only wanted us so they'd have real access to the Atlantic, hydroelectric resources to power Central Canada, and prevent the Americans from getting us like Alaska.

That's if you think that Newfoundland and Labrador was treated poorly.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I subscribe to the view that we weren't really that bad off in relation to everyone else. Vast areas of the United States are poorer TODAY than we were then. We had more wealth inequality than in Canada (like the United States of today, we had extreme wealth and relative poverty). Incomes were only 1/3 of those in Canada, but our expenses were much less as well.

Our problems prior to Confederation were not fixed by Canada - most countries had (and many still have) similar problems, such as indebted servitude.

The idea that a country that treats us relatively poorly, and certainly not with the soft gloves it treats Quebec, saved us - as opposed to us simply progressing with the rest of the developed world - strikes me as a bit inaccurate.

We were basically sold to Canada by Britain to pay off its war debts. And we know the Canadians only wanted us so they'd have real access to the Atlantic, hydroelectric resources to power Central Canada, and prevent the Americans from getting us like Alaska.

No, I would contend that America and Canada had a much higher standard of living than Nfld. at that time. And if Canada wanted the hydro resources to power Central Canada, then they did a piss poor job of doing so. And, again I don't think Nfld. was sold (Britain was however stupid in this); I see confederation as the result of a democratic process, with equal opportunity to spread propaganda for votes on both sides. The Catholic church alone did their share of that, and actually succeeded to the extent of continuing control of their education system for a few decades. Regarding preferential treatment of Quebec, I do agree with that, but it's not only Nfld. that realizes it; that unfortunately is Canada's Achilles heel; and in order to avoid amputation . . . you know the rest.

[Architype]

To provide more clarification to those remarks, Newfoundland already is a nation (a nation within a nation - and there are others), and has certainly been in the past. It's just that political boundaries don't always have to reflect that; it may not be the best thing in today's global world economy. So those remarks don't come from a lack of national pride, but are just a product of economic and political reality. It may be possible for Nfld. to be politically independent but it would be difficult.

[jeddy1989]

I hope more stuff like this gets the attention of developers
(here's to hoping for a flood of proposals after the municipal election)

St. John's To Lead Canadian Economic Growth In 2013: Conference Board

What a difference oil can make.

St. John’s, Newfoundland, will be Canada’s economic winner for 2013, according to a new report from the Conference Board of Canada, and it's pretty much all thanks to black gold. (Yes, you read that correctly — St. John’s.)

The capital of the province often thought of as an economic basket-case will soar to 5 per cent growth this year, on the strength of Newfoundland’s booming offshore oil industry, the Board said in its latest metropolitan outlook.

That places St. John’s well ahead of Alberta’s resource-rich cities, with Calgary projected to grow 3.3 per cent and Edmonton 3.2 per cent this year, according to an earlier report from the Conference Board.

Newfoundland overall is expected to do even better than St. John's itself. The Conference Board projected in June the province would grow 6.1 per cent this year, on the strength of a 12.5-per-cent boom in oil production. That would make it the fastest-growing province in Canada this year.

...

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/08...comm_ref=false

[Architype]

That places St. John’s well ahead of Alberta’s resource-rich cities

That's worth repeating in bold.

[Townie709]

Great news story! Makes me proud to be a Newfoundlander! I only hope this boom will continue for many years to come and we can become a very economically relevant Canadian city

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by Architype

That's worth repeating in bold.

Agreed!

and hopefully these types of articles are drawing more attention to us

[statbass]

VOCM, Aug 19, 2013

The St. John's Board of Trade has released its annual Mid-Year Economic Survey, and it confirms that business is 'booming' in and around the northeast Avalon. 94 per cent of business owners who responded to the survey indicate that local economic conditions are 'good' or 'excellent', and many say they are confident in continued growth. Board chair Denis Mahoney says the region is in the midst of a boom, and everyone is feeling the effects of positive growth....

http://vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?mn=2&id=37511&latest=1

[statbass]

VOCM, Aug 20, 2013

Here's another story related to yesterday's post:

While the majority of businesses surveyed indicate that the St. John's region is booming, there are a number of factors that some business owners say are hindering their growth...that's according to the latest economic survey from the St. Johns' Board of Trade. VOCM's Linda Swain reports.

Nearly 40 per cent of businesses involved in the survey say there are factors that are preventing them from seeing greater growth. Among the most significant, are an inability to access opportunities in Labrador, access to information about the tendering process, and the latest provincial budget. A Board of Trade spokesperson says the board has hired a Labrador mentor to help local companies create partnerships with Labrador businesses to take advantage of growing opportunities in the region....

http://vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?mn=2&id=37531&latest=1