Winnipeg Police Headquarters | Graham Ave.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ As much as people like to harp on the helicopter and tank, I don't think the WPS has an equipment overexpenditure problem so much as it has a salary problem.

For what it's worth, the criminal element in this city has grown a harder over the last 30 years, so it stands to reason that the cops have more gear than the billy-club equipped officer did in my grandfather's day. However, the situation is a far cry from what it's like in flashpoints like St. Louis or other big American cities. The bigger issues here are rapidly escalating wages, generous OT provisions where many cops earn piles sitting around in court, generous pensions, etc.

Fair enough if council wants to pay those generous amounts out to cops, but it's going to limit the number of police offers that the city can support. Eventually something has to give.

Winnipeg had both the highest rate of police strength and also the highest Violent CSI value among the Canadian CMAs to put things in perspective. However more boots on the ground doesn't mean all these guys should be making $100K annually either, a three year arts degree the ability to run a mile under 10 minutes or do 50 sit-ups and to be of sound mind doesn't get you $100K anywhere else.

[rkspec]

a three year arts degree the ability to run a mile under 10 minutes or do 50 sit-ups and to be of sound mind gets you 51K.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by rkspec

a three year arts degree the ability to run a mile under 10 minutes or do 50 sit-ups and to be of sound mind gets you 51K.

WPS

CONSTABLE YEARS OF SERVICE HOURLY BI-WEEKLY ANNUAL
4th Class Starting $24.86 $1,989.09 $51,716.37
4th Class After 1 Year $27.12 $2,169.92 $56,417.86
3rd Class After 2 Years $29.38 $2,350.74 $61,119.34
3rd Class After 3 Years $31.64 $2,531.57 $65,820.83
2nd Class After 4 Years $36.17 $2,893.22 $74,479.02
1st Class After 5 Years $45.21 $3,616.53 $94,029.76

$94K is ridiculous for the minimal amount of education you need any way you look at.

[rkspec]

it is crazy, just 3 years ago you topped off at 84K

[bomberjet]

So the comments made by Ross Eadie about the police chief were either false or nicely covered up by Clunis.

Either way, $90k+ after 5 years is completely f'in crazy! Most people of similar education will not make anything close to that in their careers. Not even close. Unions..

Does that wage keep increasing with each year of service? Or do they just get increases at rate of inflation?

[esquire]

The funny thing is that this morning on CBC (and I'm sure even more so on CJOB) various players were scare-mongering about the doom that will befall our city if 80 police officers are axed... well, maybe if cops hadn't driven up their price so much we wouldn't need to get rid of some.

I wonder if the WPA's members will accept a 5% pay cut to defray the cost of retaining those officers if it's that important?

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

So the comments made by Ross Eadie about the police chief were either false or nicely covered up by Clunis.

Either way, $90k+ after 5 years is completely f'in crazy! Most people of similar education will not make anything close to that in their careers. Not even close. Unions..

Does that wage keep increasing with each year of service? Or do they just get increases at rate of inflation?

Multiply that salary by the number of officers (1442) Winnipeg employs and that's still not figuring in the salaries of sargents, inspectors, superintendents, deputy chiefs, civilian employees (510), add to that pensions, vehicle and equipment costs, vanity copter, vanity tank....

With 45% of the city budget already going to the WPS and WFPS where does it stop, this will bankrupt the city and taxes will reach a level where people will move elsewhere!

If anyone in their right mind thinks this city can sustain this you truly are out to lunch.

[CoryB]

A reason step increase in a union contract is fair however those, if accurate, seem to be out of line if there is not something more that just an anniversary date that moves you up to the next level. Going from 2nd class to 1st class is over a 25% increase in pay.

[bomberjet]

I know these are larger cities. But here we go.

Toronto 2015 budget has 15.5% of budget allocated for fire and police.
https://www1.toronto.ca/City%20Of%20...ance_Final.pdf

Chicago appears to be at about 27% for all police and fire operating budgets, including police boards, independent review agencies, etc. Their document is a bit confusing.
http://www.cityofchicago.org/content...verviewCoC.pdf

Vancouver police make up about 20% of the budget.
http://www.straight.com/news/597376/...ouncil-tuesday

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I know these are larger cities. But here we go.

Toronto 2015 budget has 15.5% of budget allocated for fire and police.
https://www1.toronto.ca/City%20Of%20...ance_Final.pdf

Chicago appears to be at about 27% for all police and fire operating budgets, including police boards, independent review agencies, etc. Their document is a bit confusing.
http://www.cityofchicago.org/content...verviewCoC.pdf

Vancouver police make up about 20% of the budget.
http://www.straight.com/news/597376/...ouncil-tuesday

One of us should be feeding this stuff to our city Councillor Jeff Browaty who actually seems to be one of the few on council who actually gets it!

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

WPS

CONSTABLE YEARS OF SERVICE HOURLY BI-WEEKLY ANNUAL
4th Class Starting $24.86 $1,989.09 $51,716.37
.

Hmm..Starting wage for a Canada Post Employee, once excepted into the Union, easy coin, some experience required. Loved it before I left..

[Bluenote]

81% of the police budget goes to their salaries.
That says enough.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

81% of the police budget goes to their salaries.
That says enough.

That's even more ridiculous since they have extensive physical assets. Many patrol vehicles, a helicopter ffs, that armoured personnel carrier, horses, stations, guns, blah, blah, blah.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

That's even more ridiculous since they have extensive physical assets. Many patrol vehicles, a helicopter ffs, that armoured personnel carrier, horses, stations, guns, blah, blah, blah.

No horse officers anymore, they were cut a year ago and the officers positions were transferred over to the school resource unit.

[bomberjet]

^ Ah yes, I remember hearing something about that. Didn't realize it had happened.

I was thinking about this and about ways the Police can reduce costs. Are the Blue Bombers responsible for all the officers that are on street, and in the stadium too I guess, on game days? Seems like a lot of police around and a lot of them aren't really doing much. If you really needed people at some of these locations, might be better to have civilian volunteers maybe.

I also wonder if the officers are on overtime. Even higher costs. For 10-12 days a year, that would add up to some good cash.

[cllew]

A lot of the officers are special duty paid for by the event promoters.
Here is the cost off the WPD website (it was formatted table and did not want to paste properly here)

Special Duty Policing Service

Constable $107.00 Per hour
P/Sergeant or D/Sergeant $109.00 per hour
Sergeant $117.15 Per hour
Staff Sergeant $127.35 Per hour
Vehicle Surcharge $30.20 Per hour
All fees do not include GST if applicable.

If you want a police traffic escort (car and two officers) you will pay $857.14 for a 4 hour block of time .

It doesn't say if this charge is for funerals, or if its for things like oversize truck transport loads needing an escort through Winnipeg.

[Stormer]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

That's even more ridiculous since they have extensive physical assets. Many patrol vehicles, a helicopter ffs, that armoured personnel carrier, horses, stations, guns, blah, blah, blah.

I'll bet the biggest cost of operating the helicopter is salaries, not counting the millions to buy it. There is no way they need a chopper in this age of drones.

[Cyro]

^ $ Aprx: 500/hr. Chief pilot, 2 line pilots and 4 tactical flight officers

[rkspec]

^^
including fuel?

Stormer you are correct, say they had drones surveying certain zones....

[Cyro]

Drones, 33K/as per RCMP plus the traing and salary of said officer, considerably cheaper, no where nere $4M for Air 1 in total