OC Transpo

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by FrostyMug

Why not have the roundabout at the highway exit off and on the 174? Gets it away from the school, puts it next to the bus stop area, reduces time for turn around and would potentially improve flow off and onto the highway at Jeanne D'arc.

Because the buses turn around at the roundabout, then wait (facing southbound) in a lay-up area between the roundabout and the interchange. If the roundabout was at the north interchange ramp terminal there would be no lay-up space for the buses to wait.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

Because the buses turn around at the roundabout, then wait (facing southbound) in a lay-up area between the roundabout and the interchange. If the roundabout was at the north interchange ramp terminal there would be no lay-up space for the buses to wait.

Yes we've decided on time performance is a key measure so of course we will spend money, sacrifice frequency to meet out targets.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes we've decided on time performance is a key measure so of course we will spend money, sacrifice frequency to meet out targets.

What are you talking about? Lay-up space is pretty key for major route termini. It says nothing about our priorities, it's just the realities of transit operations.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

What are you talking about? Lay-up space is pretty key for major route termini. It says nothing about our priorities, it's just the realities of transit operations.

We have padded schedules to improve on time performance. Go to an LRT endpoint and watch a bus arrive on time and wait 20 minutes for the next scheduled departure. You can sit at Tunney and watch 10 busses waiting and idling and not a single bus pull around for 5 minutes.

[1overcosc]

And yet, the buses still leave late.

I've visited Ottawa and used OC Transpo a few times post-2019 and every time I'll be waiting for a bus connection at Hurdman, Tunney's, Blair, etc. (in fairness to the city, that's maybe 10 times total), I can literally see the bus that will start the route laying up 5+ minutes before the trip is supposed to start, and the driver just sits there until 1-2 minutes after the trip is supposed to start and with how long it takes to drive around to the stop, the trip ends up being 4 minutes late right when it starts, despite the fact that the bus had plenty of layup time beforehand.

This never a problem in Kingston. Buses are only ever late to start their trips if there was insufficient layup time / the bus arrived too late in the first place. Does OC just need better discipline among their drivers?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

We have padded schedules to improve on time performance.

Good. I would far rather that than the alternative of buses being expected to do completely unrealistic run times which make it impossible for riders to know when their bus is actually going to arrive.

[FrostyMug]

Bob McQuarrie community centre right around the corner. Lots of room to stage buses there at no additional cost.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Good. I would far rather that than the alternative of buses being expected to do completely unrealistic run times which make it impossible for riders to know when their bus is actually going to arrive.

That's fair especially going to the LRT on the bus it's nice to be able to reasonably estimate the time the bus will come. It comes at a cost though. We spend a lot of money on idling busses. For zero dollars we can increase the frequency on lots of those routes and yes our "on time" percentage will go down. In a perfect world we have idling busses sitting two abreast at every end station departing every 5 minutes in every direction on time with 10 minutes of padding. The broke world we live in though has to set priorities. If it's on time performance so be it. For me I'd prefer more busses running.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

And yet, the buses still leave late.

I've visited Ottawa and used OC Transpo a few times post-2019 and every time I'll be waiting for a bus connection at Hurdman, Tunney's, Blair, etc. (in fairness to the city, that's maybe 10 times total), I can literally see the bus that will start the route laying up 5+ minutes before the trip is supposed to start, and the driver just sits there until 1-2 minutes after the trip is supposed to start and with how long it takes to drive around to the stop, the trip ends up being 4 minutes late right when it starts, despite the fact that the bus had plenty of layup time beforehand.

This never a problem in Kingston. Buses are only ever late to start their trips if there was insufficient layup time / the bus arrived too late in the first place. Does OC just need better discipline among their drivers?

Agreed, this is a part of on-time performance that doesn’t get enough attention. Regularly see drivers having a smoke or chatting with colleagues for 3-4 min after their run was supposed to begin. As you said, by the time they finally pull out of layup, drive around the loop, etc the run is already 5 min late right off the bat. One time I had a driver begin the run late and then repeatedly stop the bus demanding that some vagrant turn off his music or she wasn’t going to drive. When I was getting off, I asked her why she’d make the run more late over something so petty and she simply shrugged and said “we’re running behind today, it happens” and that really gave me a hint as to drivers’ attitudes towards on time performance.

Another big one is how many runs pass by stops and arrive at their termini early, something which should never happen under any circumstances. I’ve tried to catch the last bus of the night many times only to see the driver hauling ass, blow through a borderline red light, and pass by my stop 7 min early causing me to miss it. All I can think is that they’re determined to reach the terminus ASAP so they can have a smoke and browse their phone (or go home), thinking “nobody rides at this time of the night anyway, what’s the big deal?”.

That being said, I think driver attitudes are a symptom of a bigger problem, where OCT and city management decisions towards transit have created a “what’s the point?” culture amongst OCT employees. I’m sure union protections, especially for long tenured drivers, don’t help either (from a customer perspective).