New Interchanges and Bypasses in MB / SK - Page 49

bomberjet · #**961** Posted **Jun 29, 2020, 9:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Is that article stating that MB is spending an extra $500 million on infrastructure to help kickstart the economy? If that's the case why such a small amount of money?

Is it just infrastructure? Says $500 million for Manitoba Restart Program, with $65 mil for roads. Which is a small amount ($65 mil) and would barely cover that interchange and associated roads.

bomberjet · #**962** Posted **Jun 29, 2020, 9:14 PM**

Bringing this over from the other thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Good news the Province is making this effort. The Province said there is $65 million for highways in total. I'm not sure they can get this interchange done for that price.

Here is the plan for this area:

Dengler Avenue · #**963** Posted **Jun 29, 2020, 9:17 PM**

P3 (Public-Private Partnership) please... If Regina Bypass doesn't warrant it, this one sure does. We can then upgrade everything in one go.

bomberjet · #**964** Posted **Jun 29, 2020, 9:20 PM**

Seems like it'll be done piece by piece.

I wonder what the extents of the St. Mary's project will be. Are they building the news lanes from the Red River Bridge east ward through to where the new St. Anne's interchange would start. The median is being widened in between those 2 locations., based on the functional plan renders.

Corndogger · #**965** Posted **Jun 29, 2020, 9:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

P3 (Public-Private Partnership) please... If Regina Bypass doesn't warrant it, this one sure does. We can then upgrade everything in one go.

I thought the Regina Bypass was a P3 project? I'm pretty sure that was the case b/c a lot of NDP people in SK bitched about it for years.

Corndogger · #**966** Posted **Jun 29, 2020, 9:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Is it just infrastructure? Says $500 million for Manitoba Restart Program, with $65 mil for roads. Which is a small amount ($65 mil) and would barely cover that interchange and associated roads.

No idea but even in normal times $500 million for highways seems like a very small amount. If SK is investing an extra $7.5 billion (?) in infrastructure to kickstart their economy and AB just announced an extra $10 billion for infrastucture there, how can MB justify a measly $0.5 billion? Has MB not been impacted much by the pandemic?

Corndogger · #**967** Posted **Jun 29, 2020, 9:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

P3 (Public-Private Partnership) please... If Regina Bypass doesn't warrant it, this one sure does. We can then upgrade everything in one go.

This would also be a great time to do a P3. MB should take advantage of the current situation and upgrade a major stretch of road. Once people see the benefits of P3 they'll want more.

CoryB · #**968** Posted **Jun 30, 2020, 12:44 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Agreed on #1 interchange.

Some of the design choices, such as Pembina and at Portage. The reason for changing for a cloverleaf to a diamond, is to utilize the existing 3 lanes bridges. Right now the 3rd lane on the bridge is used for merging. Taking that off the bridge down to the cross road via the diamond, opens up the bridge to be all through lanes. Thus not requiring a rebuild, widening or whatever.

The rest of the bridges, such as the recently reconstructed bridge at Roblin, account for ultimate design of 6 lanes.

My guess on the south Perimeter upgrades? It will only ever happen for St Annes through McGillray. Waverly is going to be a massive rebuild as it will need two full new bridges. Same with the Assinboine River crossing. Also CentrePort is already needing some significant repairs and pretty sure the through lanes have a two lane capacity.

If I have money to burn on highways building out the St Norbert and Headingley bypass routes would rank well ahead of changes on the McGillvary/Roser Rd Perimeter section.

esquire · #**969** Posted **Jun 30, 2020, 12:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoryB

My guess on the south Perimeter upgrades? It will only ever happen for St Annes through McGillray.

That's the part most in need of upgrades... the stretches from McGillivray to Portage and from St. Anne's to Fermor don't have any traffic lights so the existing setup is generally OK. The big problem with the south Perimeter is the number of intersections at grade... the uncontrolled ones have been mostly eliminated, and converting the controlled ones to interchanges is where the big push will be.

CoryB · #**970** Posted **Jun 30, 2020, 1:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

That's the part most in need of upgrades... the stretches from McGillivray to Portage and from St. Anne's to Fermor don't have any traffic lights so the existing setup is generally OK. The big problem with the south Perimeter is the number of intersections at grade... the uncontrolled ones have been mostly eliminated, and converting the controlled ones to interchanges is where the big push will be.

Portage and the Perimeter is getting extremely dangerous and needs to be addressed ASAP. The volume is definitely been increasingly significantly over the past few years with significantly more large commercial truck traffic that the McGillivray/Lag section. There has even been a fatality just south of Portage on the Perimeter likely due in part to the poor design. West to north and east to south have merge lanes forcing traffic into a through lane near the bottom on the overpass ramp. That is always a bad combination. The opposite directions have merge and exit sharing a small space on a bridge with people being forced to use one of the two through lanes for deceleration. Add into the fun that about 1 km past the east to south merge There is a RIRO access road. For lots of the day the traffic volume is sufficient there that entering or exiting traffic is a higher risk than it should be.

I am fairly certain some of the preparation work for the Portage Ave improvements has already been undertaken as the City has definitely been reworking or perhaps permanently closed the bulk water filling station on the southeast corner.

There is also my long favorite Wilkes and the Perimeter with its hairpin merge lane and blind exit halfway down the ramp. The overhaul calls for the easy fixes on both those to be done and reality is those improvements should have been greenlit years ago. Even if the full overpass replacement happens the changes could be built in a way to mostly be reused.

esquire · #**971** Posted **Jun 30, 2020, 1:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoryB

West to north and east to south have merge lanes forcing traffic into a through lane near the bottom on the overpass ramp. That is always a bad combination.

This is a real issue all over the Winnipeg area, not just at that interchange. There is another letter to the editor in today's paper from a former Winnipegger questioning why so many Winnipeggers stop at the end of merge lanes... the reason is because so many of them force you directly into traffic without room to merge. Adding a few hundred metres of merge lane so that people can safely enter a highway (especially someplace as busy as EB PTH 1 to SB PTH 100) seems like such a low cost, high benefit fix yet it never happens. I don't get it.

But apart from that I'd say even the worst interchanges on the Perimeter are still far safer than even the best at-grade intersections. That's why the McGillivray-St. Anne's stretch is deserving of attention.

djforsberg · #**972** Posted **Jun 30, 2020, 3:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corndogger

I thought the Regina Bypass was a P3 project? I'm pretty sure that was the case b/c a lot of NDP people in SK bitched about it for years.

You don’t need to be an NDP supporter to know that P3s are bullshit corporate handouts.

CoryB · #**973** Posted **Jun 30, 2020, 3:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

That's why the McGillivray-St. Anne's stretch is deserving of attention.

I still maintain that Gunn Rd and the Perimeter is the #1 intersection needing attention. It is one of only two access points between 59 North and Hwy 15, it is an at-grade crossing and only has a stop sign. The current status quo from any of the "horrible" intersections on the south Perimeter would be a significant improvement. And before someone says it should be closed it would be the same as closing all access to the Perimeter between 59 South and Pembina as "there are other routes people could take".

The Unknown Poster · #**974** Posted **Jun 30, 2020, 8:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

This is a real issue all over the Winnipeg area, not just at that interchange. There is another letter to the editor in today's paper from a former Winnipegger questioning why so many Winnipeggers stop at the end of merge lanes... the reason is because so many of them force you directly into traffic without room to merge. Adding a few hundred metres of merge lane so that people can safely enter a highway (especially someplace as busy as EB PTH 1 to SB PTH 100) seems like such a low cost, high benefit fix yet it never happens. I don't get it.

But apart from that I'd say even the worst interchanges on the Perimeter are still far safer than even the best at-grade intersections. That's why the McGillivray-St. Anne's stretch is deserving of attention.

Drives me insane how many people stop at merge lanes. But you're right, so many of them dont have a merge lane so the instinct is to stop and check that its save to proceed into the lane. They need to add merge lanes everywhere and also improve signage to mark those areas as MERGE lanes and mark the other ones as not merge.

And educate Winnipeggers that yields are not stop signs and those long stretches of road are actually meant to be used to gain speed and merge.

bomberjet · #**975** Posted **Jun 30, 2020, 9:02 PM**

Signage. It's inconsistent. Merge lanes should have the yellow sign with black linework. Indicating you have a protected lane to use to merge into traffic. You do not need to stop.

The red triangular yield sign indicates you do not have a lane and will need to stop if there's traffic.

There are numerous merge lanes marked with yield signs. Creates confusion as to whether or not you actually have lane.

Corndogger · #**976** Posted **Jun 30, 2020, 9:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

Drives me insane how many people stop at merge lanes. But you're right, so many of them dont have a merge lane so the instinct is to stop and check that its save to proceed into the lane. They need to add merge lanes everywhere and also improve signage to mark those areas as MERGE lanes and mark the other ones as not merge.

And educate Winnipeggers that yields are not stop signs and those long stretches of road are actually meant to be used to gain speed and merge.

Maybe the province or whoever is in charge of the road should up electronic message boards telling people to speed up.

If merging is too dangerous they could also put in ramp metering until they build proper interchanges.

bomberjet · #**977** Posted **Jun 30, 2020, 9:11 PM**

Like this one on Fermor. There's a merge lane, albeit a short one, so should have the yellow sign.

Hockey · #**978** Posted **Jun 30, 2020, 10:01 PM**

I read that the new interchange will be a Design - Build (D-B) service delivery model. Is this where the design is already decided and the contractor builds what it's told? Or something else?

What are the other service delivery models and what is the most common in this type of work?

Thanks

craner · #**979** Posted **Jul 1, 2020, 6:37 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockey

I read that the new interchange will be a Design - Build (D-B) service delivery model. Is this where the design is already decided and the contractor builds what it's told? Or something else?

What are the other service delivery models and what is the most common in this type of work?

Thanks

Design - Build would imply that the Contractor is involved in the design of the interchange as well as building it (i.e. the design is not fully finalized).
Either way - I’m glad to see work on the Perimeter plan proceeding. I really wish the MB Government would dive-in with the P3 model and tackle the whole South Perimeter as a comprehensive project instead of piecemeal. P3s are really THE way to get these large projects done.

Corndogger · #**980** Posted **Jul 1, 2020, 7:07 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockey

I read that the new interchange will be a Design - Build (D-B) service delivery model. Is this where the design is already decided and the contractor builds what it's told? Or something else?

What are the other service delivery models and what is the most common in this type of work?

Thanks

I believe there can be up to four components in the model.

D=Design
B=Build
F=Finance (usually just partially)
O=Operate

The Federal Highway Administration in the U.S. uses DBFMO where M stands for maintain. As far as I can tell it's part of "O."

There are some freeway segments in Alberta that are DBFO and these tend to be (always?) P3 projects. DB is probably the most common but I'm not positive about that. Might tend on the jurisdiction.