CHICAGO | General Developments

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Seriously? You think this isn't possible? Millennium Park (also built atop infrastructure) was financed with over $120M in private contributions and sponsorship deals.

McDonald's has already sponsored things downtown, mostly minor things like the Millennium Park Bike Station and the dino lab at Field Museum, but with a downtown headquarters I imagine they'd be even more willing to contribute.

A real estate team demonstrated the cap could be financed purely through value capture (creating a new TIF district around the Kennedy corridor), but a large corporate partner could certainly fill in any remaining funding gaps.

You can't be serious. Via's reaction to your post was on-point. The era of new downtown TIF districts is decisively over (as it should be). That was just Fifield floating something out there in the remote hopes of getting a 'bite' from the city (and actually thru impacting other investors' psychology by making people think this is actually on its way in the near future, thus inducing more speculative activity/higher risk-taking/appetite on their part, it's funny a couple people I was speaking with who were arguing that McD's new HQ location decision makes sense were actually using the imminent Kennedy-capping as one justification.....and probably this is also the message McD's was also being told by its real estate consultants/advisors/brokers, etc - it may indeed happen eventually but likely a long, long way off) to increase the value of their West Loop assets.

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by moorhosj

So, they are using essentially the same logic in their decision as you are in your "take-down" of that decision. Somehow, this irony is lost on you.

The other possibility you might at least consider is that I actually know what I'm talking about re the subject.....

[the urban politician]

^ A lot of people do. Real estate isn't that hard

[SamInTheLoop]

^ maybe, but moorhosj demonstrates there are tons who do not....

[Chi-Sky21]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

...and probably this is also the message McD's was also being told by it's real estate consultants/advisors/brokers, etc - .

Holy wild speculation batman..... you really like badmouthing their advisers...almost like you have something personal against them.

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by ardecila

You can absolutely tout Houston as a model.

........................

There is no shortage of urbanity in Houston

I don't know if you're being contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian, but it's not working for you. This is patently ridiculous stuff, and flies in the face of the observable urban universe.....

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21

Holy wild speculation batman..... you really like badmouthing their advisers...almost like you have something personal against them.

Nothing is personal. It's all about ideas.

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by bcp

Welcome... I know a few people from Denver going...you should seek out Ken Schroeppel who will be there. He is a friend and runs www.denverinfill.com

Bryan

All cons need their marks/all marks need a con, and so it goes, I suppose......

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

You can't be serious. Via's reaction to your post was on-point. The era of new downtown TIF districts is decisively over (as it should be). That was just Fifield floating something out there in the remote hopes of getting a 'bite' from the city (and actually thru impacting other investors' psychology by making people think this is actually on its way in the near future, thus inducing more speculative activity/higher risk-taking/appetite on their part, it's funny a couple people I was speaking with who were arguing that McD's new HQ location decision makes sense were actually using the imminent Kennedy-capping as one justification.....and probably this is also the message McD's was also being told by its real estate consultants/advisors/brokers, etc - it may indeed happen eventually but likely a long, long way off) to increase the value of their West Loop assets.

No one said anything about"imminent capping of the Kennedy", not even close. In fact, the one commenter that mentioned it said that they hoped the McDonald's move might make that vision more likely, in other words literally the opposite of saying the capping was a done deal.

That said the Harpo site makes perfect sense and you sound like an old geezer stuck in the real estate market of 1999 in your virulent bad-mouthing of the idea with little to no justification. Distance wise Harpo is basically the same (maybe a block or two further) as locating anywhere East of State or North of the River...

[Tom In Chicago]

Originally Posted by ardecila

You can absolutely tout Houston as a model. . .
. . . There is no shortage of urbanity in Houston.

Eh? I spend a lot of time in Houston and find this statement perplexing. . . you must have a definition of "urbanity" that is contrary to what we are familiar with here on this forum. . .

. . .

[r18tdi]

Originally Posted by lu9

The city website calls this area "The Boardwalk" and has a pretty cool rendering of a pedestrian bridge

That bridge looks a complete mess.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

(and actually thru impacting other investors' psychology by making people think this is actually on its way in the near future, thus inducing more speculative activity/higher risk-taking/appetite on their part)

I don't know why you are maintaining this argument that the growth in the West Loop is somehow illegitimate. The neighborhood has arrived. Residents, restaurants, and now employers increasingly want to be there. That's all there is to it.

If you think it's a bad decision on McDonald's part, then get ready for the business community, city officials, and others to double down. They will work through any issues with the neighborhood... it's not like this is Motorola moving to Harvard IL. It is the bleeding edge of the second-biggest CBD in North America, with the entirety of the Chicagoland rail system and expressway system accessible inside of ten minutes.

What are you expecting? McDonald's will say, uh-oh, this was a bad decision and terminate their lease, paying massive penalties to Sterling Bay (or whoever their landlord happens to be)? Or will they sink a smaller amount of money into shuttles or whatever else they need to make the location work? Based on 600 W Chicago, I think the latter is infinitely more likely. I haven't seen a mass wave of defections from that building, in fact it has 1.2M SF mostly leased up, with even poorer transit access than the Harpo site.

[aaron38]

Originally Posted by r18tdi

That bridge looks a complete mess.

The Boardwalk will be the site of an iconic bridge bringing people from Upper Wacker down to the Riverwalk level. It will be surrounded by floating gardens and landscaping.

?? A bridge crosses water. This sounds like a ramp. I can't picture where this bridge is going to go, why it's better than ramps/stairs, and how it's not going to muck up views of the confluence from upper Wacker.

[r18tdi]

Originally Posted by aaron38

?? A bridge crosses water. This sounds like a ramp. I can't picture where this bridge is going to go, why it's better than ramps/stairs, and how it's not going to muck up views of the confluence from upper Wacker.

Yes, I meant ramp. It's just so busy looking. I also agree with about obstructed views from Wacker.

[J_M_Tungsten]

Lol, look at this garbage email I got from my building today. The density is coming, the density is coming!

"Dear Neighbors,

Because the city only requires that residents within 250 feet of a proposed development be notified, you may or may not be aware of at least seven proposed developments – some of them 10 and 13 stories tall – in our immediate area, in addition to ones that are already approved and in process.

According to 27th Ward Alderman Walter Burnett, Old Town has been targeted by the city for “density,” meaning a surge of development, including a proposed 13-story hotel at 1520-1532 N. Wells St., the site of O’Brien’s and Old Town Oil, which will require rezoning.

If you are in support of this development initiative, we respect your position. However, if you would like more information, or if you are not in support of it, you can click here or go to Change.org and search for the page “Preserve Wells Street zoning and charm.” There you will find previous updates with background information as well as articles from neighborhood news outlet DNAinfo, which includes an overview and map of current proposed developments. Also on the site are actions you can take, including a petition you can sign and add your comments. These will be shared with the alderman as well the city’s Planning Commission, which is meeting June 16 to finalize the hotel development. You can also email your comments to Department of Planning and Development Commissioner David Reifman at david.reifman@cityofchicago.org and Zoning Administrator Patricia Scudiero at Pscudiero@cityofchicago.org.

It’s important to know we are not against development, we just want responsible, thoughtful development that is the right size and aesthetic for the neighborhood, complies with current zoning and serves the residents of the Old Town community.

Sincerely,

Neighborhood Association of Old Town (NAOT)"

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I don't know why you are maintaining this argument that the growth in the West Loop is somehow illegitimate. The neighborhood has arrived. Residents, restaurants, and now employers increasingly want to be there. That's all there is to it.

If you think it's a bad decision on McDonald's part, then get ready for the business community, city officials, and others to double down. They will work through any issues with the neighborhood... it's not like this is Motorola moving to Harvard IL. It is the bleeding edge of the second-biggest CBD in North America, with the entirety of the Chicagoland rail system and expressway system accessible inside of ten minutes.

What are you expecting? McDonald's will say, uh-oh, this was a bad decision and terminate their lease, paying massive penalties to Sterling Bay (or whoever their landlord happens to be)? Or will they sink a smaller amount of money into shuttles or whatever else they need to make the location work? Based on 600 W Chicago, I think the latter is infinitely more likely. I haven't seen a mass wave of defections from that building, in fact it has 1.2M SF mostly leased up, with even poorer transit access than the Harpo site.

Yeah after Rahm and city council changed the boundaries of the DX zoning districts and instituted the density bonus for community development funds program, it is absurd not to think that we will someday see major development, probably even highrise development, all the way West to Ashland in the future. This is just the beginning.

Also, not only is it absurd to say the West Loop is unsuitable for Class A corporate HQ office, it is flat out an oxymoron. The only Metra adjacent sites which remain are to the West. The next 700' class A skyscrapers will not have addresses on Wells or Wacker (with the exception of the area around 311), but on Desplaines or Clinton. It's not just OK for offices of this scale to locate further West, it's quickly becoming the only option. I posted images highlighting how many lots have disappeared in the area between the River, Lake, Vanburen, and Halsted a while ago, well the numbers continue to dwindle with the Econobox by the park and the little residential development further North. It's only a matter of time until the only option is to go tall or move further West.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by J_M_Tungsten

Lol, look at this garbage email I got from my building today. The density is coming, the density is coming!

"Dear Neighbors,

Because the city only requires that residents within 250 feet of a proposed development be notified, you may or may not be aware of at least seven proposed developments – some of them 10 and 13 stories tall – in our immediate area, in addition to ones that are already approved and in process.

According to 27th Ward Alderman Walter Burnett, Old Town has been targeted by the city for “density,” meaning a surge of development, including a proposed 13-story hotel at 1520-1532 N. Wells St., the site of O’Brien’s and Old Town Oil, which will require rezoning.

If you are in support of this development initiative, we respect your position. However, if you would like more information, or if you are not in support of it, you can click here or go to Change.org and search for the page “Preserve Wells Street zoning and charm.” There you will find previous updates with background information as well as articles from neighborhood news outlet DNAinfo, which includes an overview and map of current proposed developments. Also on the site are actions you can take, including a petition you can sign and add your comments. These will be shared with the alderman as well the city’s Planning Commission, which is meeting June 16 to finalize the hotel development. You can also email your comments to Department of Planning and Development Commissioner David Reifman at david.reifman@cityofchicago.org and Zoning Administrator Patricia Scudiero at Pscudiero@cityofchicago.org.

It’s important to know we are not against development, we just want responsible, thoughtful development that is the right size and aesthetic for the neighborhood, complies with current zoning and serves the residents of the Old Town community.

Sincerely,

Neighborhood Association of Old Town (NAOT)"

I don't know why people show up to the Plan Commission to bitch about a proposal, being that by the time it has reached that point it is essentially a few rubber stamps away from approval.

[the urban politician]

Doesn anybody see a developer being bold enough to propose a TOD at Armitage and the Brown Line?

I'm sure there is some world class NIMBYism up there, but that area could really use a boost in density. So many deconversions and tear downs into mansions, yet a hip retail strip that could really thrive if a couple of midrise apartment projects went up

[HowardL]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Doesn anybody see a developer being bold enough to propose a TOD at Armitage and the Brown Line?

Yes, but that area is still solidly built up.

Ride (2) stops up to Diversey ... now we're cooking up some TOD possibilities.

[SolarWind]

June 7, 2016