HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #81  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2020, 7:09 AM
isaidso isaidso is offline
The New Republic
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Provinces of America
Posts: 10,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
But the NBA only cares marginally about that. Their primary concern is how putting a team in the Montreal – or any other market – would tangibly grow the business to the point it would offset the cost of having to share existing revenues, estimated at $7.4- billion last season.. And how would having a team in Montreal help that process more than a franchise in any other market?

And by the way – if there is any argument that splitting the Canadian market with the Raptors would somehow cut into their pie – that could be a strike too.

For that matter adding teams in Europe before they try to squeeze more juice out of a well-serviced North American landscape makes sense. Even in Canada there might be the urge to right a wrong in putting another franchise in Vancouver and further deepening the league’s tie to the vital Asian market.
But that's just it. Canada/US isn't well serviced yet. The Raptors have done wonders for drumming up basketball interest nationally but that can only go so far. To expand it further, major regions in Canada like BC and Quebec need their own teams. I see the NBA's experience with the Raptors as helping Canadian expansion more than harming it. They've made their mark on the league and helped fuel a basketball boom in what is still a virgin territory for the NBA.

Basketball in Quebec is where basketball in Ontario was at in the 1980s. The sport is growing; we're even seeing Quebeckers playing in the NBA these days. An NBA team in Montreal is the right place at the right time. Quebec maybe a smaller market than Ontario but it's still substantial by North American standards. 8.5 million and the 7th fastest growing jurisdiction in Canada/US demographically. Only 5 US states added more people than Quebec last year.

Provincial/State population growth, 2018-2019, Top 10

Texas: 367,215
Ontario: 248,002
Florida: 233,420
Arizona: 120,693
North Carolina: 106,469
Georgia: 106,292
Quebec: 97,333
Washington: 91,024
Alberta: 70,595
British Columbia: 70,166



Annual Demographic Estimates: Canada, Provinces and Territories, 2019, StatsCan
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...01/tbl-eng.htm

2019 U.S. Population Estimates Continue to Show the Nation’s Growth Is Slowing, US Census Bureau
https://census.gov/newsroom/press-re...st-nation.html
__________________
World's First Documented Baseball Game: Beachville, Ontario, June 4th, 1838.
World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
Hamilton Tiger-Cats since 1869 & Toronto Argonauts since 1873: North America's 2 oldest pro football teams
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #82  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2020, 7:20 AM
isaidso isaidso is offline
The New Republic
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Provinces of America
Posts: 10,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
As London grows in stature, it should change its name so people don't always have to ask which London they're talking about. Maybe New London or West London. Lol idk just bugs me.
It's always bugged me too. There's precedent for this too. Toronto changed its name from York to avoid confusion with New York. Berlin became Kitchener. London should do the same. It's just way to confusing considering the stature of the one across the pond.

What do you change London to though? A First Nations name would be my preference. Tecumseh, Huron, or maybe pay homage to former industry.... Carling, Labatt?
__________________
World's First Documented Baseball Game: Beachville, Ontario, June 4th, 1838.
World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
Hamilton Tiger-Cats since 1869 & Toronto Argonauts since 1873: North America's 2 oldest pro football teams

Last edited by isaidso; Jan 5, 2020 at 7:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #83  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2020, 7:43 AM
Corndogger Corndogger is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 7,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
But that's just it. Canada/US isn't well serviced yet. The Raptors have done wonders for drumming up basketball interest nationally but that can only go so far. To expand it further, major regions in Canada like BC and Quebec need their own teams. I see the NBA's experience with the Raptors as helping Canadian expansion more than harming it. They've made their mark on the league and helped fuel a basketball boom in what is still a virgin territory for the NBA.

Basketball in Quebec is where basketball in Ontario was at in the 1980s. The sport is growing; we're even seeing Quebeckers playing in the NBA these days. An NBA team in Montreal is the right place at the right time. Quebec maybe a smaller market than Ontario but it's still substantial by North American standards. 8.5 million and the 7th fastest growing jurisdiction in Canada/US demographically. Only 5 US states added more people than Quebec last year.

Provincial/State population growth, 2018-2019, Top 10

Texas: 367,215
Ontario: 248,002
Florida: 233,420
Arizona: 120,693
North Carolina: 106,469
Georgia: 106,292
Quebec: 97,333
Washington: 91,024
Alberta: 70,595
British Columbia: 70,166



Annual Demographic Estimates: Canada, Provinces and Territories, 2019, StatsCan
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...01/tbl-eng.htm

2019 U.S. Population Estimates Continue to Show the Nation’s Growth Is Slowing, US Census Bureau
https://census.gov/newsroom/press-re...st-nation.html
The NBA and it's team owners care most about TV contracts because that's what pays the bills. Adding teams in North America lowers what each team gets unless they can negotiate an even better deal in 2024 (?). Will adding a team in Montreal make Disney want to dish out at least another $800 million/year? I doubt it! Expanding to Europe makes much more sense assuming they even want to expand. I'm not saying Montreal couldn't sell out their games. What I'm saying is that gate receipts mean very little for the NBA and NFL.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #84  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2020, 7:31 PM
ssiguy ssiguy is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: White Rock BC
Posts: 10,714
Berline changing it's name to Kitchener had nothing to do with a ground swell support to do so from the citizens and everything to do with WW1. This is why the name was changed during that time.

As far as London changing it's name, this comes up every couple of decades in the city to the point of almost being part of the culture. I remember in the 1970s many thought the name should be changed and again in the 90s but nothing ever comes of it. Probably the easiest and most exceptable name change would simple be New London except that name is also already taken.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #85  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2020, 8:02 PM
casper casper is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria
Posts: 9,098
One aspect that will have a major impact on immigration into Canada is the US.

The US is moving more and more towards being closed for immigration. I think this trend goes beyond Trump.

In Vancouver for the past decade we had companies like Microsoft using Vancouver as holding pen for the people they recruited from around the world that they could not get into the US as permanent residents. I think this is a positive. We should be encouraging all of these tech companies to setup shop in Canada and providing a degree of flexibility as they focus on bringing in highly skilled talent from overseas as well as their families.

There is no shortage of people who have come to the US as immigrants with temporary status that are no longer wanted because geo-political issues instead of the specifics of the individual. Canada should be actively recruiting these people to come to Canada.

The waves of immigrants from Central American that are sitting in Mexico waiting to enter the US are again a potential pool that we should be looking at.

I am not convinced that the major cities will see the majority of the growth. With more and more people working from home I think over time there is going to be more and more relocation from the bigger centers to the smaller centers. Immigrants will still be settling in the major urban areas when they first arrive.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #86  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2020, 8:36 PM
isaidso isaidso is offline
The New Republic
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Provinces of America
Posts: 10,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
The NBA and it's team owners care most about TV contracts because that's what pays the bills. Adding teams in North America lowers what each team gets unless they can negotiate an even better deal in 2024 (?). Will adding a team in Montreal make Disney want to dish out at least another $800 million/year? I doubt it! Expanding to Europe makes much more sense assuming they even want to expand. I'm not saying Montreal couldn't sell out their games. What I'm saying is that gate receipts mean very little for the NBA and NFL.
So it's $24 billion/30 teams to get $800 million. One has to think that there's no market anywhere that would increase television revenues more than that. Overseas markets may be large but NBA viewership is much much lower as well. A large market can only take you so far. Look at the NHL's experience in Atlanta. People vastly over estimate the popularity of basketball in places like London. Most people in the UK have never seen a game let alone understand the rules.

Perhaps, markets like Montreal and Vancouver will just have to grab an existing team and re-locate it. You'd have to think that both Canadian markets hold more value than low hanging fruit like Memphis, New Orleans, Oklahoma City, and Milwaukee.
__________________
World's First Documented Baseball Game: Beachville, Ontario, June 4th, 1838.
World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
Hamilton Tiger-Cats since 1869 & Toronto Argonauts since 1873: North America's 2 oldest pro football teams

Last edited by isaidso; Jan 5, 2020 at 9:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #87  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2020, 8:57 PM
Corndogger Corndogger is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 7,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
So it's $24 billion/30 teams to get $800 million. One has to think that there's no market anywhere that would increase television revenues more than that. Overseas markets may be large but NBA viewership is much much lower as well. A large market can only take you so far. Look at the NHL's experience in Atlanta. People vastly over estimate the popularity of basketball in places like London. Most people in the UK have never seen a game let alone understand the rules.

Perhaps, markets like Montreal and Vancouver will just have to grab an existing team and re-locate it. You'd have to think that both Canadian markets hold more value than low hanging fruit like Memphis, New Orleans, and Oklahoma City.
I'm pretty sure London isn't where the NBA is looking. The NFL is definitely looking to put a team there. Canadian markets hold very little value to U.S. media conglomerates. Unless Disney, etc. are allowed to operate freely in this country markets such as OKC will be more valuable. And as the article stated, it's hard to imagine anyone ranking higher than Seattle and Vegas right now. The NBA also wants control of arenas which looks like an "X" for Montreal.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #88  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2020, 9:24 PM
isaidso isaidso is offline
The New Republic
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Provinces of America
Posts: 10,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by casper View Post
One aspect that will have a major impact on immigration into Canada is the US.

The US is moving more and more towards being closed for immigration. I think this trend goes beyond Trump.

In Vancouver for the past decade we had companies like Microsoft using Vancouver as holding pen for the people they recruited from around the world that they could not get into the US as permanent residents. I think this is a positive. We should be encouraging all of these tech companies to setup shop in Canada and providing a degree of flexibility as they focus on bringing in highly skilled talent from overseas as well as their families.
The US has in many ways been in impediment to Canadian growth over history. Immigrants chose the US over Canada by a wide margin. Corporate USA often steamrolled over corporate Canada in industry after industry (autos, consumer products, tech). Our biggest players were often just Canadian units of US parents.

We're slowly starting to see a shift of influence and power within north America. The US still dominates but Canada is much stronger (economically, culturally, demographically, politically) within north America than it was in the past. For the longest time there was a 10:1 population ratio. It's now down to 9:1 and could fall to a 8:1 ratio in the next 10-12 years.

And yes, we should be doing all we can to encourage US tech to set up shop here. I think we've done a good job on that front. Equally important is the emergence of home grown tech firms.

There's still no Canadian Facebook, no Canadian Uber, no Canadian Apple, no Canadian Google, no Canadian Nvidia, no Canadian Tesla, etc. The patents are held by US companies and the royalties flow there; as do the profits. As long as this continues, billions of dollars will continue heading south to the US annually. It explains why per capita income in San Francisco is almost double that of Toronto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by casper View Post
There is no shortage of people who have come to the US as immigrants with temporary status that are no longer wanted because geo-political issues instead of the specifics of the individual. Canada should be actively recruiting these people to come to Canada.

The waves of immigrants from Central American that are sitting in Mexico waiting to enter the US are again a potential pool that we should be looking at.

I am not convinced that the major cities will see the majority of the growth. With more and more people working from home I think over time there is going to be more and more relocation from the bigger centers to the smaller centers. Immigrants will still be settling in the major urban areas when they first arrive.
The hostility to latin America in the US is a potential gold mine for Canada. We'd be wise to capitalize on it rather than let that once in 500 year opportunity pass us by.

I'm also of the view that we'll see a wider dispersal of growth nationally. Cities tend to grow to a size where the negatives start outweighing the positives. You see that phenomenon all across the US. Canada has never really had cities that big where we've seen people start looking at alternatives. That's starting to change. People out west are starting to look at Kelowna and Victoria over Vancouver. In the east cities like Halifax are now on the radar of people who'd initially only thought of Toronto.

Overall, this is good development. It's far better having 20-30 good big city options rather than 3. It might take 50 years to realize but at least the process has started.
__________________
World's First Documented Baseball Game: Beachville, Ontario, June 4th, 1838.
World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
Hamilton Tiger-Cats since 1869 & Toronto Argonauts since 1873: North America's 2 oldest pro football teams

Last edited by isaidso; Jan 5, 2020 at 9:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #89  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2020, 9:27 PM
isaidso isaidso is offline
The New Republic
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Provinces of America
Posts: 10,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
I'm pretty sure London isn't where the NBA is looking. The NFL is definitely looking to put a team there. Canadian markets hold very little value to U.S. media conglomerates. Unless Disney, etc. are allowed to operate freely in this country markets such as OKC will be more valuable. And as the article stated, it's hard to imagine anyone ranking higher than Seattle and Vegas right now. The NBA also wants control of arenas which looks like an "X" for Montreal.
Canada may hold little value to US media conglomerates but it holds huge value to Canadian media conglomerates. Surely it (US and Canadian tv revenues) all goes into the same pot or are Canadian tv revenue considered local and thus goes to the Raptors alone?
__________________
World's First Documented Baseball Game: Beachville, Ontario, June 4th, 1838.
World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
Hamilton Tiger-Cats since 1869 & Toronto Argonauts since 1873: North America's 2 oldest pro football teams
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #90  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2020, 9:29 PM
hipster duck's Avatar
hipster duck hipster duck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by casper View Post
The waves of immigrants from Central American that are sitting in Mexico waiting to enter the US are again a potential pool that we should be looking at.
These people have almost no skills and speak neither English nor French. They’re not the kind of immigrants we need.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #91  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2020, 9:45 PM
isaidso isaidso is offline
The New Republic
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Provinces of America
Posts: 10,805
^^ I don't think people are suggesting that we abandon the points system employed by Immigration Canada only that we actively recruit from there. We do this sort of thing all the time in other regions of the world. Canada skims the cream of the crop globally and we can do the same thing here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Berline changing it's name to Kitchener had nothing to do with a ground swell support to do so from the citizens and everything to do with WW1. This is why the name was changed during that time.
I think people are aware of that. It wasn't stated anywhere that it was a result of a ground swell of support by citizens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
As far as London changing it's name, this comes up every couple of decades in the city to the point of almost being part of the culture. I remember in the 1970s many thought the name should be changed and again in the 90s but nothing ever comes of it. Probably the easiest and most exceptable name change would simple be New London except that name is also already taken.
Yes, it falls under the category of wishful thinking than anything else. New London isn't much better.
__________________
World's First Documented Baseball Game: Beachville, Ontario, June 4th, 1838.
World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
Hamilton Tiger-Cats since 1869 & Toronto Argonauts since 1873: North America's 2 oldest pro football teams
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #92  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2020, 10:24 PM
Corndogger Corndogger is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 7,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Canada may hold little value to US media conglomerates but it holds huge value to Canadian media conglomerates. Surely it (US and Canadian tv revenues) all goes into the same pot or are Canadian tv revenue considered local and thus goes to the Raptors alone?
Adding two teams in Canada is not going to triple the appeal of the NBA in Canada. The Raptors would probably fight such a move as it would dilute their share of the pie. It's the same reason why the Leafs and Sabers would never agree to having another team in the area unless the expansion fee was huge. The expansion fee for NBA teams would be much higher.

I'm pretty sure that national TV deals are revenues the entire league shares. There are local deals though and they can be very lucrative. Last year the Lakers got $122 million from Time Warner which is by far the most of any pro sports team in North America. I believe the salary cap is less than that.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #93  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2020, 10:29 PM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is offline
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 33,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
These people have almost no skills and speak neither English nor French. They’re not the kind of immigrants we need.
I think this is an area that Canadians tend not to appreciate. The US has experienced a lot of low-skilled illegal immigration and it's had a big impact on American society including the standard of living of low-skilled American-born workers. This is a factor that has caused the US to be less open to immigration in general.

The more left-leaning pro-immigration political wing in the US hasn't been affected as much because it tends to be made up of people who are more insulated on average from the flooding of the low end of the labour market. People like Elizabeth Warren or Hollywood celebrities don't bear the brunt of that and may even profit from it, not just in terms of social points but in terms of cheaper labour.

It's a huge oversimplification to say that this is just about racism and Canadians being more enlightened.

In one interview I listened to David Frum made an interesting comment about how immigration can be used to control inequality depending on what kind of immigration you permit, e.g. if you let in doctors versus farm labourers. Makes sense but then again those levers only allow you to rebalance different segments of the workforce; they're not very helpful in addressing the elephant in the room, wealth. And any immigration will shift the balance toward people who don't sell labour at all.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #94  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2020, 10:31 PM
Corndogger Corndogger is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 7,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
These people have almost no skills and speak neither English nor French. They’re not the kind of immigrants we need.
We know from what's happened in America over decades that these people can learn English and develop skills. They're also much more likely to accept our values, etc. than some more "skilled" immigrants. After the prolonged and continuing war on drugs we should feel obligated to help these people improve their lives after making them miserable for so long.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #95  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2020, 3:27 AM
Luisito's Avatar
Luisito Luisito is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,787
Many of our big urban centres will be Asian majority cities, mainly Indian and Chinese, Asians in general. Because of that I see Canada becoming a much more conservative place.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #96  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2020, 3:37 AM
vid's Avatar
vid vid is offline
I am a typical
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Thunder Bay
Posts: 41,172
"Oh no!" said the forumer from a city where 1/4th of the city council was born in Italy and speaks Italian.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #97  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2020, 3:50 AM
LakeLocker LakeLocker is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: London ON
Posts: 1,848
Quote:
Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
As London grows in stature, it should change its name so people don't always have to ask which London they're talking about. Maybe New London or West London. Lol idk just bugs me.
Yeah I've been a fan of using the term new london for quite some time. Of all the "news" found in north american "london" would be the one I think most people would expect to see.

I don't know "Old" Foundland, Jersey, York, Brunswick, Scotia, etc, but anyone who has ever spoken a word of english knows London.

Even while living in London, talking to people about London who also live in London, it gets confusing.

London to me signifies that place holder city. It was never quite an offshoot of Detroit/Toronto but it never stood on its own as an organic city either. London was started because some "Lord" decided he wanted Brits to come here and he didn't want to "challenge them" by being unique with novel naming schemes.

200 years later London still signifies "the place that shall not challenge you, by being in any way unique".

The only alternative that atleast makes some sense is "Forest City". Which is so ironic considering in Winter you realize how few evergreens exist here.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #98  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2020, 3:59 AM
LakeLocker LakeLocker is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: London ON
Posts: 1,848
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
It doesn't completely describe the phenomenon, but isn't bullshit either. Costs are definitely a factor. You think those clothing factories Bangladesh exist because of their abilities as trend setters? I'm not sure the workers there would agree with you...

https://nypost.com/2019/10/25/amazon...igation-finds/
Bangladesh is a horrible example as they proove the point.

It has always been the case that it is more productive to invest in machinery than people. They do well in textiles because it is so dependent on Labor.

Magna international is a great case study for what modern manufacturing should look like.(If you ignore the fact they make drive trains, a technology that will beyond worthless thanks to electric cars).

The reason Bangladesh is a dump is because they can't manage the technologies that are needed in a modern factory. Corrupting, lack of power, lack of education, lack of a industrial culture, etc are all reasons they get stuck doing the bottom of the barrel type manufacturing.

Canadian manufacturing became dominated by second rate creatives, that couldn't get past the labor equation.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #99  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2020, 4:03 AM
whatnext whatnext is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 22,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisito View Post
Many of our big urban centres will be Asian majority cities, mainly Indian and Chinese, Asians in general. Because of that I see Canada becoming a much more conservative place.
Yes it seems pretty obvious but the Liberals haven’t clued into it yet.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #100  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2020, 4:03 AM
LakeLocker LakeLocker is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: London ON
Posts: 1,848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeolas View Post
I suspect another major factor in the future will be ecological refugees. While Canada won't escape climate change issues; we are in one of the better positions to weather the changes than other countries. So that will probably increase the number of people heading our way to escape flooding, heat waves, wild fires, etc... That could very well offset any stabilization we would otherwise have and may actually lead to an increased growth rate for us in general.
It's a non issue made up by people with political agendas.

Most of the hardest hit places are minor tropical islands, with tiny populations that easily and willfully can be relocated.

The flaw with this kind of thinking is the failure to appreciate the nature of the change. The hardest hit places will be those places that currently lack much of an economy. So even with modest growth, economic advances will enabled technologies to circumvent the changes.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:55 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.