Lamenting the decline of the car

[kool maudit]

The North American truck situation has kind of an arms race feel to it; my sister just got some ridiculous SUV because she felt surrounded by too many others in traffic.

The only way to prevent this is building enough "tight" areas (streets and parking) so that these vehicles are just too much of a hassle for city people.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

The only way to prevent this is building enough "tight" areas (streets and parking) so that these vehicles are just too much of a hassle for city people.

Very much this. Streets are ridiculously wide in North America. So I'm not even sure the carbon tax will change much. Eventually, we'll just substitute large gas pickup trucks with large electric pickup trucks.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

The North American truck situation has kind of an arms race feel to it; my sister just got some ridiculous SUV because she felt surrounded by too many others in traffic.

The only way to prevent this is building enough "tight" areas (streets and parking) so that these vehicles are just too much of a hassle for city people.

This is already happening to some degree.

Parking spaces even in suburban malls are noticeably tighter. Parking garages as well.

My wife and I always negotiate vehicle size, she wanting bigger, I wanting smaller. We generally settle in the middle.

I want smaller as I am the one driving most of the time and parking is a pain in the ass (even in the burbs) with too large a vehicle.

There are few things that I hate more than having to squeeze between my car and the one next to it. Multiply that by 10 in the winter.

I also like how "nimble" a small vehicle is when manoeuvring.

[niwell]

I've noticed that a number of people in my social circle seem convinced that moving forward they will need a Large Vehicle both for safety and capacity. Most either have a small car or no vehicle at this point, and live in central Toronto or Ottawa. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me since I've found large vehicles a massive pain in the ass driving anywhere in central Toronto.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

This is already happening to some degree.

Parking spaces even in suburban malls are noticeably tighter. Parking garages as well.

My wife and I always negotiate vehicle size, she wanting bigger, I wanting smaller. We generally settle in the middle.

I want smaller as I am the one driving most of the time and parking is a pain in the ass (even in the burbs) with too large a vehicle.

There are few things that I hate more than having to squeeze between my car and the one next to it. Multiply that by 10 in the winter.

I also like how "nimble" a small vehicle is when manoeuvring.

There is no question that parking spaces in Winnipeg are a holdover from an era when cars were smaller than they are now. Unless you drive a compact or smaller, most parking spaces are a fairly tight fit.

Contrast with North Dakota where this is never an issue... it's like every space is designed with Tahoes and F250s in mind, which are extremely common sights down there.

As far as the "arms race" with cars goes, I think that's very much a thing. The smaller of my two cars is a midsized sedan, and to be honest I don't think I'd want to drive anything much smaller than that. A subcompact on the same roads as these massive pickups would feel pretty dangerous to me.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Nope, a place where "lake effect" snow was a thing.

So I'm assuming it was somewhat flat then That does help... compared to what I'm used to.

But yeah, I agree that drivers nowadays are generally incompetent.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by theman23

I think the point thats being made is that more and more you dont have to have a beard, pasty complexion, and premature balding to drive one of these. They're the best selling cars in the country. Everyone from oil patch workers in Fort Mcmurray to Punjabi soccer moms in Surrey drive them.

Apparently even Acajack's social circle is buying them, and we all know he has token friends from every minority group.

Which is ridiculous. These vehicle are so stupidly oversized for most of their missions it's criminal. They should just slap on a honking federal gas tax to make them less appealing.

Somebody alluded to it, but I've a friend in a condo where its becoming a real problem as the parkade was never deisgned for vehicles of this size.

[Innsertnamehere]

I’m a fan of the hatchback. 90% of the utility of an SUV without the terrible driving dynamics and gas mileage. I don’t understand people’s obsession with large vehicles.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is something about pickup trucks that gives me shivers of the wrong kind.

I have posted before that a few years ago my dealership gave me a pickup truck as a loaner while my car was being serviced for a few days.

I posted on social media to my friends that now was the time to see Acajack driving around in a pickup - it likely won't ever happen again.

You almost had one in the driveway at some point, remember when I PM'd you to check whether you knew anyone in the Greater Ottawa area who could temporarily store for me that awesome deal crewcab F250 diesel that needed to go from the seller's place immediately, until I'd be ready to take it home, and you kinda wanted to offer your own driveway?

(Thanks again BTW!!)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

There is no question that parking spaces in Winnipeg are a holdover from an era when cars were smaller than they are now. Unless you drive a compact or smaller, most parking spaces are a fairly tight fit.

Contrast with North Dakota where this is never an issue... it's like every space is designed with Tahoes and F250s in mind, which are extremely common sights down there.

As far as the "arms race" with cars goes, I think that's very much a thing. The smaller of my two cars is a midsized sedan, and to be honest I don't think I'd want to drive anything much smaller than that. A subcompact on the same roads as these massive pickups would feel pretty dangerous to me.

Of course the big vehicle owners generally park at the far end of the lot. When they can. This is not always possible though.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Very much this. Streets are ridiculously wide in North America. So I'm not even sure the carbon tax will change much. Eventually, we'll just substitute large gas pickup trucks with large electric pickup trucks.

Street and lane widths are standardized and vehicle makers work with governments on these standards.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Of course the big vehicle owners generally park at the far end of the lot. When they can.

It happened once that I got trapped by someone parking right behind me (I had a super long trailer so I was parked at the end of the parking, in a corner, taking like 10 parking spots in a row (sideways) - and some idiot parked in the free spot that was the closest to the rear of the trailer), I had to escape driving forward on the grass.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by theman23

Apparently even Acajack's social circle is buying them, and we all know he has token friends from every minority group.

Not every group, and none of them are "token".

Still, if I come by a pretty diverse social circle in little old Gatineau, isn't it a bit suspicious that some of you guys in global diversity capitals might not?

[theman23]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Which is ridiculous. These vehicle are so stupidly oversized for most of their missions it's criminal. They should just slap on a honking federal gas tax to make them less appealing.

Somebody alluded to it, but I've a friend in a condo where its becoming a real problem as the parkade was never deisgned for vehicles of this size.

B.C. has a ton of "small car only" parking spots in garages, malls, etc. They struck me, because I never saw those before I moved out west. They're almost always occupied by SUVs or pickup trucks. I imagine there would less appeal to have one if parking rules were better enforced.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by theman23

B.C. has a ton of "small car only" parking spots in garages, malls, etc. They struck me, because I never saw those before I moved out west. They're almost always occupied by SUVs or pickup trucks.

There are also a lot of new "30 minute quick shopping" parking spots now.

In some places it makes sense, but who the hell spends more than 30 minutes in a... pet food store?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Street and lane widths are standardized and vehicle makers work with governments on these standards.

There's absolutely nothing stopping the adoption of narrower streets. Portland, famously, did just this, with all kinds of positive outcomes. Good 5 min video explaining the trend catching on:

• Video Link

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I’m a fan of the hatchback. 90% of the utility of an SUV without the terrible driving dynamics and gas mileage. I don’t understand people’s obsession with large vehicles.

I'm liking the new fastback trend. It's a better take on hatchbacks.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by theman23

B.C. has a ton of "small car only" parking spots in garages, malls, etc. They struck me, because I never saw those before I moved out west. They're almost always occupied by SUVs or pickup trucks. I imagine there would less appeal to have one if parking rules were better enforced.

I always assumed those signs were intended to mean "park here at your own risk of dents in doors if your vehicle is large, we parking designers/owners wouldn't recommend this spot for anything bigger than a small car, we aren't liable for anything arising from the fact that this particular spot is not meeting the City regulations' full standard width for a parking spot."

I own a few downtown parking lots in my hometown and I know with 100% certainty that the City has regulations for minimum legal width and they do enforce them (smaller-than-legal spots would be considered a zoning violation) - however if I wanted to get away with having a few more spots I could try to label some of them "small car only". (Though, as you pointed out, this idea pretty much doesn't exist yet in the East, or at least in Quebec.)

[theman23]

Originally Posted by lio45

I always assumed those signs were intended to mean "park here at your own risk of dents in doors if your vehicle is large, we parking designers/owners wouldn't recommend this spot for anything bigger than a small car, we aren't liable for anything arising from the fact that this particular spot is not meeting the City regulations' full standard width for a parking spot."

Maybe, although I would guess that the pickup trucks/SUVs are doling out more damage than they receive.

[ssiguy]

The reality is that these huge trucks and SUV are bloody expensive so people driving them are not concerned about the price of gas. Vancouver has the most expensive gas in NA but big trucks and SUVs dominate the landscape.

Much of this can be blamed on near zero interest rates and 7 year pack back plans. Also leases play a huge part.................people no longer buy cars but simply lease them. Essentially they are just renting them so they never actually have to pay for the whole vehicle. These expensive trucks & SUVs are bought by people who are not concerned about whether they can afford the vehicle but rather just if they can afford the payments which are 2 very different things.

When I was a kid, leases were strictly for business and tax write-offs. Nobody leased a car but rather bought it and 3 years was the most you could pay it back over. Now such restrictions are gone and surprise, surprise, everyone can afford an expensive truck & SUV.