Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

A howler:



No one in the U.S. is going to confuse the Northern Cities Vowel Shift in Buffalo and Detroit with Toronto.

Probably not, but those cities aren't what people have in mind when they think of a Midwestern US accent.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Probably not, but those cities aren't what people have in mind when they think of a Midwestern US accent.

They most certainly are. Though Chicago would obviously be the very first city on the list.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

They most certainly are. Though Chicago would obviously be the very first city on the list.

I guess the definition of the accent region or accents within the region might be variable?

That Principal Victoria character from South Park that kool maudit had me discover is what I'd have in mind, and a large area of the U.S. including much of the Midwest (Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, etc.) and arguably all the way to the west coast, has millions of people who sound like that.

Some of you guys may have very trained ears, but to mine and most people's, it's very hard to tell that accent apart from that of your average English-speaking Canadian.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by rousseau

No one in the U.S. is going to confuse the Northern Cities Vowel Shift in Buffalo and Detroit with Toronto.

I think they are talking more about places like Minnesota. Also, it tends to be Western Canadians, particularly from the Prairies, who say they get mistaken for upper Midwesterners. To me, the rural Prairie hoser type accents and upper Midwest do sound similar.

My NS accent was never very strong and has been fading for years but Americans pick me out all the time.

There are often some "tells" with accents or dialects. One in the US it the pin -> pen merger. Do pin and pen sound the same to you? Almost certainly not if you are Canadian, but they are pronounced the same way in a lot of Southern US accents/dialects (with all -en sounds being shifted to -in).

How do you pronounce "mom"? I say "mum", and Americans tend to think of that as British. It is immediately identifiable and weird (it is sometimes "mam" in Northern England).

Do you pronounce "aunt" and "ant" the same way? I do not. This is common in the Maritimes and New England. I think it's "ant" in most of Canada.

Sometimes the differences fall between sounds that exist in a dialect and that's when people get confused. "Aboot" is in that category. I believe v and w are like this in some Central and Eastern European languages.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I guess the definition of the accent region or accents within the region might be variable?

That Principal Victoria character from South Park that kool maudit had me discover is what I'd have in mind, and a large area of the U.S. including much of the Midwest (Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, etc.) and arguably all the way to the west coast, has millions of people who sound like that.

Some of you guys may have very trained ears, but to mine and most people's, it's very hard to tell that accent apart from that of your average English-speaking Canadian.

Wisconsin is definitely part of the Northern Cities Vowel Shift ("Wis-cayan-sin"). I've heard it in Minneapolis too, though that's just anecdotal on my part.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inland...es_Vowel_Shift

What's interesting is how sharp the borders can be. My sister lives in Ithaca, just below Rochester on the map there, and there is no NCVS in the accent there whatsoever.

[drew]

There is a pretty decent chance that if someone in the States makes fun of the "Canadian" accent, all you need to do is ask them to say "roof". It's basically a mic drop retort.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Wisconsin is definitely part of the Northern Cities Vowel Shift. I've heard it in Minneapolis too, though that's just anecdotal on my part.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inland...es_Vowel_Shift

OK what do you think of Principal Victoria's accent, which kool said was Minnesotan?

Though I have to say Buffalo and Detroit accents do stand out as non-Canadian to me for sure. In the case of Detroit, white people in particular often have accent traits more typical of the southern US. I gather many of them or their parents moved there from the south to work in the auto industry.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

OK what do you think of Principal Victoria's accent, which kool said was Minnesotan?

Don't know this character, will have to look up a video to see.

Originally Posted by Acajack

In the case of Detroit, white people in particular often have accent traits more typical of the southern US. I gather many of them or their parents moved there from the south to work in the auto industry.

Where do you get this from? I don't hear anything southern in Detroit. It's Midwestern like anywhere else on that map.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Sarah89

I've found several Americans to do this when reacting to the Canadian accent. Immature people no question, but it's still seems to be a ''thing'' for Americans to laugh at Canadians just for speaking a sentences that exposes words like ''out''.

Or saying "eh." Not that I say it all that much anyway, but I consciously avoid using it in the U.S. or among American friends. But sometimes it slips out, and the resulting mirth is always a bit startling.

[Acajack]

I wonder why (some) Americans do this to Canadians when they seemingly don't do it as much to their fellow countrymen who have lots of different accent and vocabulary quirks based on the region they're from?

Or perhaps they do it and it doesn't bother people as much? Or perhaps a southerner saying "y'all" is old hat so people don't react?

They don't seem to do that to Brits either and god knows there are lots of differences.

Could it be that the fact that Canadians may speak somewhat differently from Americans comes as a surprise to many Americans? (And to Canadians too?)

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I wonder why (some) Americans do this to Canadians when they seemingly don't do it as much to their fellow countrymen who have lots of different accent and vocabulary quirks based on the region they're from?

Or perhaps they do it and it doesn't bother people as much? Or perhaps a southerner saying "y'all" is old hat so people don't react?

They don't seem to do that to Brits either and god knows there are lots of differences.

Could it be that the fact that Canadians may speak somewhat differently from Americans comes as a surprise to many Americans? (And to Canadians too?)

My sense is that pretty much most Americans know about the Canadian "eh" thing. They think it's amusing, Canadians are a non-threatening and mostly unknown quantity aside from being a lot like Americans (save for politeness?), and there's no rancorous history or legacy between us, so it's safe. The dynamic is essentially like how an Iowan might poke fun at a Nebraskan.

Plus, with most Canadians perceived to be white (the multicultural aspect isn't so well known), there's no chance of an aggrieved SJW backlash happening, so with most other targets becoming off-limits, this one has legs.

We should relish it.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Could it be that the fact that Canadians may speak somewhat differently from Americans comes as a surprise to many Americans? (And to Canadians too?)

I think it largely comes down to "eh" somehow having worked its way into the pop culture stereotype of Canadians in American media. I'd guess it would be possible to trace it back to some influential writer many decades ago who happened to know a Canadian who said "eh" all the time.

Another factor is that Canadians pay attention to what Americans say about them and so there has been a reaction to make the meme even stronger over time.

[wg_flamip]

Originally Posted by Acajack

OK what do you think of Principal Victoria's accent, which kool said was Minnesotan?

Though I have to say Buffalo and Detroit accents do stand out as non-Canadian to me for sure. In the case of Detroit, white people in particular often have accent traits more typical of the southern US. I gather many of them or their parents moved there from the south to work in the auto industry.

The phonology Upper Midwest/North-Central American variety of English is well documented (see here for a quick overview). Although it shares a few features with Canadian English, it lacks Canadian raising and the Canadian shift. It also shares several features with the Northern Cities that Canadian English lacks.

I find the two accents quite easy to differentiate: If you put Michele Bachmann, Sarah Palin or the cast of Making a Murderer in Toronto, their accents would definitely not register as from here.

I'm not sure what similarities you're referring to between Southern American English and the Northern Cities. I'd be hard-pressed to name a feature the two have that's not also present across most American varieties of English. The pin–pen merger, one of the most distinctive features of Southern American English, has been slowly spreading northward over the past several decades and has become fairly common in certain parts of the Midwest (namely, the southern parts of Indiana, Illinois, Missouri and Kansas), but it hasn't reached the Great Lakes area yet.

[Denscity]

Why does Sarah Palin sound like she's from Minnesota?

[Acajack]

Guys, I did not make that up!

https://cestlazindagi.wordpress.com/...nt-of-detroit/

[lio45]

Is "You betcha!" just a (longer, less direct) way of saying "Yes"? That's what I'm starting to believe

I've never noticed it until before. Seems quite common in Vancouver, and not anywhere else in the Anglosphere I've spent any time.

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by lio45

Is "You betcha!" just a (longer, less direct) way of saying "Yes"? That's what I'm starting to believe

I've never noticed it until before. Seems quite common in Vancouver, and not anywhere else in the Anglosphere I've spent any time.

Ya it comes from "you bet". Meaning for sure.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Ya it comes from "you bet". Meaning for sure.

Isn't it a contraction or simplification of "you bet you"?

[lio45]

Seems pretty clear it's a contraction of "you [can] bet [that that's correct], you!" but again, a simple "yeah" would usually suffice.

[lio45]

(Not to be confused with "You bitch!")