Winnipeg - Conservative (Right) or Progressive (Left)?

[LilZebra]

• Video Link

Alex Jones of Infowars.com just flew (or drove) to leftist city Seattle, Washington.

A young adult spilled what Alex allegedly says was HOT COFFEE on him. Another young adult male called Alex a 'racist'.

Wondering, if AJ were to visit our fair city, how would we treat him?

Is metro Winnipeg as a whole more Left-leaning or is it more Right-leaning?

My guesstimate is that we are a Left-leaning racist city and someone would do the same to AJ as was done in Seattle, Washington.

[bomberjet]

I don't give a crap what your political views are. Regardless of your opinion on Winnipeg being a racist city. If you come here specifically to spout racist garbage, you're going to have a hard time.

Who was that other guy that was supposed to come here maybe last year and the Mayor told him just don't come. I could see that happening again to that guy.

[esquire]

Guys like Alex Jones and that d-bag bomberjet was talking about need to have some kind of foil to play off of to whip up their supporters. Let's face it, they do what they have to do to provoke a response... there isn't as much money in calm discussion as there is in emotional hysterics.

[Wolf13]

We're definitely left of centre.

I'm right wing, but no fan of the provocateurs that are parading around these days. For me it's more fiscal. However, I find it completely hypocritical that leftists and antifa can run around and actually commit harm to people with minimal backlash because "racism". I'm sure some of these people are racist, and in Charlottesville hell yes they were, but often the right is generalized in the Trump era as racist which is nonsense. Sure enough, the quicker you throw a term around, the quicker you can feel entitled to punch someone you disagree with.

I don't care what reasons you give, if you're a moron who tries to attach a label to anyone just so you can start a fight, then I have no respect.

We all know that if a white right wing capitalist punched someone for differing political opinions it doesn't matter if his wife could be black, he's probably Hitler and thereafter face down in a ditch.

[Jets4Life]

• Video Link

Found this on YouTube a couple of months ago. Not sure what is going on, but it's obvious it's taking place in front of Winnipeg City Hall.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

We're definitely left of centre.

I'm right wing, but no fan of the provocateurs that are parading around these days. For me it's more fiscal. However, I find it completely hypocritical that leftists and antifa can run around and actually commit harm to people with minimal backlash because "racism". I'm sure some of these people are racist, and in Charlottesville hell yes they were, but often the right is generalized in the Trump era as racist which is nonsense. Sure enough, the quicker you throw a term around, the quicker you can feel entitled to punch someone you disagree with.

I don't care what reasons you give, if you're a moron who tries to attach a label to anyone just so you can start a fight, then I have no respect.

We all know that if a white right wing capitalist punched someone for differing political opinions it doesn't matter if his wife could be black, he's probably Hitler and thereafter face down in a ditch.

In a way, you can characterize the right as motivated by winning, which over the last few decades has inclined them towards unifying. Uniting the right has been politically effective in Canada, so far. The white nationalist rally in Charlottesville was even branded as a unite the right rally. It would seem that the right can only unite so far. It's unfortunate for voters that the division came so far to the right (I can get down with the thoughtful, centre-right pollitics of a man like Joe Clark, or the fundamentally kind conservatism of Angela Merkel, but the likes of Brian Pallister and Andrew Scheer will never gain my vote). But it's good that right wing politicians in North America are finally drawing a line on who they're willing to associate with in order to hold power.

Conversely, the left seems compelled to sort itself into ever smaller factions. Regressive leftist ideals die hard. Identity pollitics have taken the bleeding edge of needlessly illiberal progressive pollitics. The Black block is all fun and games when they're punching Nazis, but they aren't heroes, and they probably hate you too, if you dare to see the good in capitalism because it keeps food on our tables, or understand what the word 'inherently' means and therefore know that capitalism is not inherently racist.

Unfortunately, extremism begets extremism. Those of us who aren't extremists might disagree with each other, but we've brought about a wonderful system in which we can disagree constructively and cooperatively.


As for Alex Jones, I don't even think he's a real person. He's a blow hard who knows which side of his bread is buttered. The odd hot coffee to the face is a small price to pay for the oodles of money he makes off whipping up idiots. What he does is definitely not helpful, but we're in the midst of the process of collectively figuring that out.

[WolselyMan]

Winnipeg decisively sways towards leftist Ideology. This is probably an echo of it once having one of the largest marxist movements in Canada. It's actually fairly understandable how the social environment of the city in it's adolescent days might not have given a lot of people the best picture of capitalism. Winnipeg was basically founded by a Fur Company, so right from the very start Businessmen had humongous influence over the city's governance. This meant lots of abuses of power could be implemented by powerful tycoons, many of whom built some of the oldest riverfront mansions that remain on wellington crescent today. The city just simply sprung out of nowhere so mind-mindbogglingly fast that you are bound to run into a ton of growing pains such as an unhealthy amount of corporatism that comes from mixing government with business so tightly.

[WolselyMan]

Originally Posted by biguc

1. Since Charlottesville, right wing politicians have denounced the alt-right.

2.if you think I'm an asshole, that's your prerogative. I think you're quite the asshole, myself, and, if you do run the blog you used to link to in your signature, I recently saw you outed on Facebook for the supposedly racist blog you run. Never read it, myself, but that is in character with some of your posts. I may have been out of line in ridiculing one poster who grinds my gears, but I've never taken a shit on every single one of the 1600000000 Muslims on earth, like you have. Think about that, next time you want to call someone a hypocrite.

Nevertheless, democracy exists, and that's the collaborative system of constructive disagreement I'm referencing. And that has nothing to do with me being an assholes.

Islam has absolutely nothing to do with race. It's an ideology that is as independent of ingrained characteristics as any other view of what the world should be like, which is pretty much what a political ideology is anyway.

[Tony]

That's enough children.

[WolselyMan]

Originally Posted by biguc

Like I said, I never read the blog you used to link in your signature. Try reading. People on Facebook read your blog, they doxed you. People know who you are and consider you an extremist who they might assault. Not my thinking, theirs. Maybe that's your motivation for this thread.

I have read islamophobic posts from you before though.

Wolseley Man, I expect better than that kind of teenage semantics from you. You know that Muslims are easily racialized and that race is not a real thing. For an analogy, the Nazis frequently referred to the "Jewish race". Not because they didn't know that Judaism is a religion, but because race can be just about anything those who invoke it want it to be. Anyway, I don't need to refer to Islamophobia to find examples of Jets being racist: he's said some choice things about natives.

The only people I see racializing Muslims are social justice warriors who think that just because Islam is mostly practiced by brown people, that means anything you say about Islam you say about 'brown people' as well. Forget about the word race. Think ethnicity, and Muslims are NOT an ethnic group. Connecting Islam to race is nothing but a sneaky tactic that the left uses to shield the religion from any possible scrutiny. No idea is above criticism, and no person is below dignity. Do you understand the difference between these two sentences?

"Jets4Life Hates Muslims"
"Jets4Life Hates Islam"

[WolselyMan]

Looks like I just left behind an archeological record of an internet flame war long ago erased from history.

[Jets4Life]

Just for the record, I am not racist against either of said groups. I hate everyone equally...

[Tacheguy]

[QUOTE=Jets4Life;7898430]Just for the record, I am not racist against either of said groups. I hate everyone equally...[/QUOTE

I love mankind. it's people I can't stand..

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

I love mankind. it's people I can't stand..

I love the animal kingdom.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by biguc

In a way, you can characterize the right as motivated by winning, which over the last few decades has inclined them towards unifying. Uniting the right has been politically effective in Canada, so far. The white nationalist rally in Charlottesville was even branded as a unite the right rally. It would seem that the right can only unite so far. It's unfortunate for voters that the division came so far to the right (I can get down with the thoughtful, centre-right pollitics of a man like Joe Clark, or the fundamentally kind conservatism of Angela Merkel, but the likes of Brian Pallister and Andrew Scheer will never gain my vote). But it's good that right wing politicians in North America are finally drawing a line on who they're willing to associate with in order to hold power.

Conversely, the left seems compelled to sort itself into ever smaller factions. Regressive leftist ideals die hard. Identity pollitics have taken the bleeding edge of needlessly illiberal progressive pollitics. The Black block is all fun and games when they're punching Nazis, but they aren't heroes, and they probably hate you too, if you dare to see the good in capitalism because it keeps food on our tables, or understand what the word 'inherently' means and therefore know that capitalism is not inherently racist.

Unfortunately, extremism begets extremism. Those of us who aren't extremists might disagree with each other, but we've brought about a wonderful system in which we can disagree constructively and cooperatively.


As for Alex Jones, I don't even think he's a real person. He's a blow hard who knows which side of his bread is buttered. The odd hot coffee to the face is a small price to pay for the oodles of money he makes off whipping up idiots. What he does is definitely not helpful, but we're in the midst of the process of collectively figuring that out.

I agree with pretty much everything, except I like Scheer and Pallister so far, and like the intent of Merkel but not so much the execution. However, given the circumstances, I think she has attempted to play an unplayable hand, and could have still handled everything much worse. But that's another rabbit hole.

As far as Alex Jones, and my problem with the current left, is that everyone must not only respect the new infinitely overcomplicated individual, it must now also be legally protected, funded, and society molded around it. "Everyone just be yourself and be nice" works for me, but we've created a new, untouchable individual with an unlimited spectrum provided it votes left. These same identity warriors can dictate punishment for wrongful use of pronouns by unknown, innocent people, yet see no overreaching when the law is rewritten, and conveniently, the same party they support starts taking more money from people they disagree with in the form of taxes.

They are untouchable, but apparently everyone else's money and liberty is not.

So while Alex Jones is asking for it, these new, offended untouchables have also decided whom they can exercise violence (ergo touch angrily) again.

Not referring to Charlottsville in this fyi...

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

I love the animal kingdom.

My neighbour's dog is an asshole, so I'm hesitant on this haha!

[LilZebra]

Where I grew up after Jul. '75, in South River Heights, Prog. Cons. Dan McKenzie was the federal MP representing "Winnipeg - South Centre" or something like that.

So now who represents south River Heights, I don't know if it's a Lib. or a Cons.

But it seems that everything is moving "left".

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

Where I grew up after Jul. '75, in South River Heights, Prog. Cons. Dan McKenzie was the federal MP representing "Winnipeg - South Centre" or something like that.

So now who represents south River Heights, I don't know if it's a Lib. or a Cons.

But it seems that everything is moving "left".

The centre is shifting more and more left. What was once borderline Marxism could be construed as far right now (a gross but illustrative exaggeration).

I for one find that the whole right left spectrum is a little innacurate and doesn't adequately take all considerations into account. I prefer to look at things on the freedom spectrum with authoritarian governments like Maoist China or Hitler's Germany at one end and anarchy/pure libertarianism at the other. Make no mistake, communism and fascism are essentially the same thing, the fact that we've got them at opposite ends of the political spectrum only serves to confuse people.

As for Winnipeg, we seem to get all the worst elements of left and right politics all at once. Misguided public spending and crony capitalism. Gotta love it.

[balletomane]

^Agreed with you on the left-right political spectrum.

I tried to make my own political spectrum using a hexagon, because I thought it was more accurate than the left-right spectrum.



https://hexnet.org/content/age-hexagons

Using the faces of a hexagon,
Liberal at left, Conservative at Right.
Left Libertarian at Top-Left, Right Libertarian at Top-Right.
Communism at Bottom-Left, Fascism at Bottom-Right.

This way, the left-right spectrum and anarchist-authoritarian spectrum are both taken into account.

[The Unknown Poster]

I think it works both ways. A guy like Alex Jones isnt afraid to walk up to average people because his job is to provoke and he's obviously intelligent, comfortable speaking and has his argument and talking points down.

If you take a left wing person in the same situation, you'd get the same results. A left could chase average people around the streets calling them names because the average person at 8 am on their way to work doesnt have an argument ready to counter a person seeking to provoke them.

Im a right leaning person and Im so saddened by some of the people I know who are attacking the left in some sort of lame defense of the nazis and racists. A well known person in Winnipeg who I am close with has done this and I am very sad for him.

Regardless of views, if you're politics out weigh racism and right and wrong then the argument is lost before it begins.

if you re-tweet James Woods regularly, you're not "right wing". You're just wrong. Regardless of how well thought out or how fancy the words are.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

I think it works both ways. A guy like Alex Jones isnt afraid to walk up to average people because his job is to provoke and he's obviously intelligent, comfortable speaking and has his argument and talking points down.

If you take a left wing person in the same situation, you'd get the same results. A left could chase average people around the streets calling them names because the average person at 8 am on their way to work doesnt have an argument ready to counter a person seeking to provoke them.

Im a right leaning person and Im so saddened by some of the people I know who are attacking the left in some sort of lame defense of the nazis and racists. A well known person in Winnipeg who I am close with has done this and I am very sad for him.

Regardless of views, if you're politics out weigh racism and right and wrong then the argument is lost before it begins.

if you re-tweet James Woods regularly, you're not "right wing". You're just wrong. Regardless of how well thought out or how fancy the words are.

I guess I have to be careful with this response...

If you take a left wing person and have them provoke, he'll get punched in the face, and the media backlash would label the aggressor a nazi. Because Nazi motivations had to be the root.

If a righty gets punched, then the aggressor is just an asshole or idiot. Perhaps some actually get reasonable and acknowledge the quick trigger violence of the new alt-left. There isn't an equally damaging political label to nazi that you can brandish the left aggressor with, so it's a losing battle for any right leaning person when one of their own idiots does something wrong.

Now as a conservative, I'm happy to denounce racism and of course, nazism... a no brainer. But I also am hesitant to accept identity based politics and to base each political thing around race, class, or identity, but rather the individual civilian regardless of identity etc... So to the new left, anyone who disagrees is a potential nazi and charlottseville sympathizer. They are HAPPY to jump to that conclusion.

Why, if there is any reason left, would ANYONE want to damage another person with such vile accusations? Why would anyone WANT that to be true?

Because if these accusation, however wrong, stick, that person's fucked, and they're down one person they disagree with. They lose their good job and any good public image.

A violent lefty gets no such permanent label, spends the night in jail and is back at Wendy's for their shift the next day.

I agree that politics are dangerous if your views outweigh racism, but that's also why many intelligent aggressive alt-lefties are so quick to cry it out... it shuts down the debate... and, as a bonus, might permanently damage the credibility of your political opposite.

None of this justifies Jones, however.