CHICAGO | Grant Park 3 & 4 | (3) 790' - 73 FLOORS | (4) 900' - 83 FLOORS NEVER BUILT

[BVictor1]

Hope you don't mind me using this info tomorrow

[Dr. Taco]

it doesn't matter what you say about the shadows because the issue was already addressed last fall! They had satellite photos of south GP at the most shadowy times of day from a day in each season. the winter was the worst, like you said, and you could even see how far out the shadows reached. Its true the shadows just aren't going to do enough, but if they ignored the reasoning then, I don't see any reason why they won't now. And I also don't think their bitching is going to make a difference.

However, BVic, I do think its a good idea to show them alliance's variance on the color. at least see what they think and how possibly willing they are for design change. I seem to recall the GP3 design being cheered at that meeting I went to, and the designers must have felt pretty good about themselves, but now we've had this change of heart. i dunno

[aaron38]

Originally Posted by Alliance

I hate to say it, but it might solve some of its issues.

Be careful what you wish for. Right now we've got a tower that isn't painted concrete and doesn't have a blank wall parking podium. If they shorten it up, I'm afraid we'll get something that looks a lot like Michigan Marquee.

[Eventually...Chicago]

To be honest i can live with whatever color glass they want, i just want good ground level design. Lots of trees, no blank walls to walk against. I don't know if there is a less pedestrian friendly section of building than the blank dryvit wall on the south side of roosevelt just west of michigan. Except for that big brick wall on state in the gold coast, i think.

Oh yea, bvic, you're not allow to use my sun angle calculations, i only let people who actually contribute meaningful stuff to the forum use my posts

[Alliance]

Originally Posted by BVictor1

No, but I will be showing this image to encourage them to use a different tinted color glass. There's enough blue glass in that area already.

Please do. Clear glass would rock.

Originally Posted by aaron38

Be careful what you wish for. Right now we've got a tower that isn't painted concrete and doesn't have a blank wall parking podium. If they shorten it up, I'm afraid we'll get something that looks a lot like Michigan Marquee.

To me, just because a building is glassy doesn't mean its good. Keep in minf this is a permenant tower that will NEVER be obscured. OMP and OMPW are already whimsical and uncohesive. Its time for a change. By trying to be too different this building is the same. I've brought up LSE many times as an example of GOOD variation in a planned development. I see none of that in OMP.

At the current design, I'd rather see only the first 400 ft of the building built.

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

Originally Posted by Alliance

To me, just because a building is glassy doesn't mean its good. Keep in minf this is a permenant tower that will NEVER be obscured. OMP and OMPW are already whimsical and uncohesive. Its time for a change. By trying to be too different this building is the same. I've brought up LSE many times as an example of GOOD variation in a planned development. I see none of that in OMP.

At the current design, I'd rather see only the first 400 ft of the building built.

OMP and OMPW work better as a duo than either does alone, IMO; OMPW blocks OMP's blunt, blocky western elevation. But I digress.

The design of GP3 just doesn't make any sense. It's just arbitrary curves. And what's with the floor plans? Some balconies are a lot smaller than others for no apparent reason. The form is just so irrational. And it's still on a podium.

Ultimately, I agree with Alliance. At least something half the size might allow future high rises to peak out behind it should anything ever be planned for that area. As it is now we have a stylized question mark -- fitting, I guess, if it were actually built.

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

Ultimately, I agree with Alliance. At least something half the size might allow future high rises to peak out behind it should anything ever be planned for that area. As it is now we have a stylized question mark -- fitting, I guess, if it were actually built.

There's no vacant land behind the site of GP Tower 3 & 4

I think that we also must remember that we don't necessarily want all of the buildings to be cohesive. I think that's the beauty of the Chicago skyline, dfferences in architectual detail and style even if the buildings use the same materials.

The building might be built on a podium like base, but remember, this will be active space. It won't be a blank uninviting blob.

[Alliance]

Well, it will be a blob on the park. An ugly blob.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. These buildings are already too cohesive. They try too had to be different. They all have radical curfed forms, all glass, and another element tacked on. Its pseudovariaton. Its a contrivance. I want variation too, but 4 exotic glass towers in a row form their own little island of glaring similarity in the sea of Chicago's diverse buildings. The glass is al treated the same way, as are the curves, the podiums, and the balconies. Even worse GP3 has no contextualism to its surroinding area.

Lakeshore east managed to give us more buildings with incredible amounts of variation that isn't forced or contrived. Look how different 340, Tides, Aqua, and Arquitectonica are. They're all modern towers, but they don't look like they're part of a deveopment. Thats not the case with the GP towers, all of which will be seen way past our lifetimes.

[intrepidDesign]

I'll play devils advocate for a moment and say, maybe with GP4 rendered, GP3 might make more sense (I doubt it) but who knows. All we have seen of GP4 is a ghost. It might compliment GP3 well... maybe...( but I doubt it).

[Nowhereman1280]

Originally Posted by Alliance

Well, it will be a blob on the park. An ugly blob.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. These buildings are already too cohesive. They try too had to be different. They all have radical curfed forms, all glass, and another element tacked on. Its pseudovariaton. Its a contrivance. I want variation too, but 4 exotic glass towers in a row form their own little island of glaring similarity in the sea of Chicago's diverse buildings. The glass is al treated the same way, as are the curves, the podiums, and the balconies. Even worse GP3 has no contextualism to its surroinding area.

A. How do you know that the glass on all three of these towers is treated the same when you have only seen what the glass actually looks like on one of them?

B. Contextualism is for pussies, this is Chicago, build first, the contextualism will follow (i.e. Sears and Hancock and soon to be CS)...

[BVictor1]

APPROVED

I gave the rendering to the members of the plan commission as well as the lawyer for the developer.

I didn't ask when they'd start marketing.

Of course, there was someone who spoke against this tower for reasons that I posted the other day.

[Alliance]

Thanks Vic.

[honte]

As much as I dislike the design for GP3, I am glad it was approved. It's not my taste, but it's not doing any real damage... and there are many people who will appreciate it.

Who knows, Alliance, it might get VE'ed into a common box. A lot of fancy plans in Chicago that get approved without sufficient means of oversight suddenly become "too expensive," as we're seeing with 444 Lake.

[nomarandlee]

http://www.suntimes.com/business/roe...tral20.article

Condo confidence
NEAR SOUTH SIDE |
Despite housing slowdown, developer says buyers still interested in Roosevelt Road high-rises

June 20, 2008Recommend

BY DAVID ROEDER droeder@suntimes.com

Reports of the death of the housing market in Chicago have been greatly exaggerated, the developer of the Near South Side's largest new neighborhood said Thursday.

Gerald Fogelson said he's still selling condominiums in his Central Station development and he has enough confidence to lay the groundwork for two new high-rises worth about $800 million.

By the end of the year, Fogelson said, he expects to sell more than $400 million in condos for 2008, a pace he said is down slightly from prior years.

.........The commission agreed that a building Fogelson plans for the southwest corner of Roosevelt and Indiana can be 790 feet, or 73 stories vs. the current allowance of 620 feet. He said he will start marketing the units next year and hopes to break ground in late 2009.............

..

[Mojava]

Seems like a very aggressive schedule to start construction next year.

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by Mojava

Seems like a very aggressive schedule to start construction next year.

more power to him

[Nowhereman1280]

I think this and W=A just show how much the press is over-exaggerating the current situation in the economy. The people who are actually selling the units still have confidence they can sell, not at the fire-sale rates of previous years, but at a normal rate. I would ignore 90% of the media panic surrounding the ecnonomy since we have basically just returned to market rate prices and a normal sales pace from 4 years ago...

Good news all around.

[Alliance]

Yes. Waldorf, Aquitectronica, and GP3 are all major tests of the State of Chicago's economy.

[MrLakepoint]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

I think this and W=A just show how much the press is over-exaggerating the current situation in the economy. The people who are actually selling the units still have confidence they can sell, not at the fire-sale rates of previous years, but at a normal rate. I would ignore 90% of the media panic surrounding the ecnonomy since we have basically just returned to market rate prices and a normal sales pace from 4 years ago...

Good news all around.

Nowhere man,

You are correct about the 90% factor. The media is driving this doom and gloom factor because they want Obama in the white house. I think that they will sell this building pretty fast and I am glad to see that they approved it yesterday (Great news).
I actually like the design, it is modern and unique and it will help define the south wall with a modern flare.

[Chicagoguy]

Originally Posted by MrLakepoint

Nowhere man,

You are correct about the 90% factor. The media is driving this doom and gloom factor because they want Obama in the white house. I think that they will sell this building pretty fast and I am glad to see that they approved it yesterday (Great news).
I actually like the design, it is modern and unique and it will help define the south wall with a modern flare.

I agree with both of you. If you look at sales of all of the new buildings going up they are selling quite well. I think the main reason for that is because the people who are buying these units aren't people that are be greatly affected by the economy right now. Aqua is almost completely sold along with OMP. I think they will have no problem selling the luxury condos, I think their trouble lies in selling condos to the middle class American.