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  #141  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2007, 2:55 AM
emoney2 emoney2 is offline
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This building seems to be close to the the USR building from iRobot at about half scale
     
     
  #142  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2007, 3:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
but why are you so sure that they're going to compete for the exact same buyers? the spire stands alone as one of the singular achievements in the history of our species, it will succeed or fail on its own, there will be no other projects that possess anywhere near the same level of magic to torpedo it, this waldorf-astoria tower included.
How will they not compete for the same buyers? They're two very tall building with modern architecture, three blocks apart from each other, both aiming for luxury price points. Sure the prices in the Spire are a bit higher, and the architecture more unique and with better pedigree, but they're close enough. Most buyers aren't as awed by Calatrava as we are (or even know who he is), and with the Waldorf=Astoria brand attached this building will have its own cache. Fact is, if someone can buy an 80th floor unit in this building for less than a 40th floor unit in the Spire, of the same size, many buyers will opt for this building. They're not the exact same buyers, but there is significant overlap - basically, anyone who isn't buying a unit above the 100th floor and doesn't know who Calatrava is (read: at least 50% of potential Spire buyers) is going to compare the two based on price relative to how big and how high the unit in question is.

I'm sure several people here will nod approvingly at your post, but I disagree completely.

Last edited by 10023; Sep 28, 2007 at 3:22 AM.
     
     
  #143  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2007, 3:13 AM
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^But this thing certainly won't have 100+ floor (or 1300'+) units to sell which are available exclusively in the Spire. Thats the 'big price' part of the Spire.
     
     
  #144  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2007, 3:21 AM
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What a nice proposal. Sleek looking tower for a great city. Its well deserved. I'll be moving back to SF in a couple of months, so my only regret is that, if this is indeed a serious proposal, I wont see this or Chicago Spire rise.
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  #145  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2007, 3:21 AM
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After reading that the 5 star hotel WA will have around 325 units this would make it probably the largest 5 star hotel in Chicago.



A list of 3-4-and 5 star hotels U/C in Chicago

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...=441045&page=9
     
     
  #146  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2007, 3:26 AM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
How will they not compete for the same buyers? They're two very tall building with modern architecture, three blocks apart from each other, both aiming for luxury price points. Sure the prices in the Spire are a bit higher, and the architecture more unique and with better pedigree, but they're close enough. Most buyers aren't as awed by Calatrava as we are (or even know who he is), and with the Waldorf=Astoria brand attached this building will have its own cache. Fact is, if someone can buy an 80th floor unit in this building for less than a 40th floor unit in the Spire, of the same size, many buyers will opt for this building.
nobody's heard of this building. that won't be true for long with the spire. This thing is so far away from reality, its laughable
     
     
  #147  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2007, 3:28 AM
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Originally Posted by aluminum View Post
^But this thing certainly won't have 100+ floor (or 1300'+) units to sell which are available exclusively in the Spire. Thats the 'big price' part of the Spire.
It's also less than 1/3 of the Spire's units and probably 50% of its sales value.

Imagine you're a young professional looking for a one bedroom. Your choices are a 30th floor, 1100 square foot unit in the Spire for $1.2 million or a 70th floor, 1100 square foot unit in the Waldorf=Astoria for $900,000.

Most people don't know who Calatrava is, and these are both luxury developments. Don't think for a second that they're not competing for the same buyer.
     
     
  #148  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2007, 3:49 AM
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You gotta admit, the seemingly nonstop proposals in Chicago's very crazy.

But this building $500mil? No way, after all this coming from a guy who massiveley underestimated the [Fordham] Spire's price. I'm thinking it will be slightly higher priced than Trump if this one is U/C now.
     
     
  #149  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2007, 4:11 AM
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Hey everyone,
I don't post very much, and when I do, it's mostly questions about the construction process. As you can read, I'm real estate appraiser for the Chicagoland area. My wife and I also own a real estate investment company.
Most people have had there doubts about the condo glut in Chicago, but rest assure....Chicago's market is very healthy compared with the rest of the top 5 major cities in the U.S.
Within the past few years, Chicago has been noticed by several international real estate junkies to invest money here.
Why?... A weak American dollar and a slumping real estate market!!
New York and L.A. has always stood at the top for commercial and glamour when it came to the spotlight.
I'm not trying to troll, but L.A. and NYs real estate market have been soo far out of reach for so many people that it's almost impossible to buy there.
Chicago, on the other hand, has a much cheaper market with just as much to offer then both cities!
Food, entertainment, sports, you name it.....and has a great lake front.
Investors don't spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a builing unless they know that the market will support it.

Thanks
     
     
  #150  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2007, 4:33 AM
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It seems that Chicago has a good week starting a sneak peek of interior at CS and then Waldorf-Astoria. I wonder what the SOAR's reaction would be. I can't imagine them opposing the project attached with the 5-star hotel's name.

Anyway, my reaction to this is:
     
     
  #151  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2007, 5:16 AM
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Yeah, I don't think SOAR will be an issue with this one. Its by a hotel and offices and won't be blocking anyone's view. Also, after seeing the way they bent to Kellher on the Chicago Spire, they really have no legtimate voice telling the developer that a building is too tall when it is half the height of something already Under construction. This is 3 blocks from the Spire, 3 Blocks from Aon, and 3 blocks from Trump. I don't think there will be any legitimate NIMBY resistance here. This area of town has been completely claimed by the supertall!
     
     
  #152  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2007, 5:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alliance View Post
This might put this into perspective for everyone...especially those not famialiar with the BOOM rundown thread.

Propsals in Blue
U/C in Green
Built Boomers in (darker) Green
Important Oldtimers in Black/White

Thanks, Alliance. That's just what I needed to get my bearings. Chitown can't be stopped!
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  #153  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2007, 5:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 View Post
Yeah, I don't think SOAR will be an issue with this one. Its by a hotel and offices and won't be blocking anyone's view. Also, after seeing the way they bent to Kellher on the Chicago Spire, they really have no legtimate voice telling the developer that a building is too tall when it is half the height of something already Under construction. This is 3 blocks from the Spire, 3 Blocks from Aon, and 3 blocks from Trump. I don't think there will be any legitimate NIMBY resistance here. This area of town has been completely claimed by the supertall!
I guarantee you that SOAR didn't bend at all to Kelleher on the Chicago Spire. There were some initial concerns about things, but over all, SOAR loved the design and pretty much embraced the whole project. Kelleher made very convincing argument that won the majority of the group over. Plus the stunning design was a major selling point.
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  #154  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2007, 9:17 AM
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I think you guys are beating this "reality of the proposal" issue to death and the naysayers are missing the point.

The real excitement here should be that Chicago remains a place that inspires people to reach for greatness, and on a routine basis at that. Set aside the failures and dreams of the past and just consider how many amazing proposals we see in Chicago. This fact alone, coupled with the reality that a very large number of these projects become reality (all things considered), should give any Chicagoan great pride. It is a fair barometer of what we can expect in the future. Yes, I know it's all about money and opportunity, but all of these proposals have another side to them that involves inspiration and a sense of greatness.

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I always loved Carley because he seemed like an honest and truly decent man during the presentations of CS. It could all have been BS - but at least in that case he was a smooth BS'er (cf Trump). In any case, I believe in him and I think this building has a fine chance of becoming reality, especially if he can keep W=A in his pocket and make those mortgage payments on the property. He certainly knows the ins and outs of working in Streeterville, and honestly I think it's an incredible come-back already that the hotelier is still working with him after his "shameful" loss of the CS property bidding.

Still, let's face it, Kelleher destroys Carley when it comes to experience, savvy, and financial power. And he's not tied up with any kind of financial debt either that will put pressure on him to rush. I just can't see this project being a major concern to him. If his sales slow, then he waits a while, no big deal. I agree 100% that his building is a superlative one - better views, more protected views, waterfront access and greenspace, dedicated LSD entry, and overall prestige. It's also a much more "secure" building. It may not be a ton of tangible evidence, but it is the same reason people would buy a Bentley over a Mercedes sedan. As long as Kelleher gets off to a great start, proving that buyers will pay this price and the commodity is worth the cost, others should surface over time. His job is to get moving, keep people confident, and keep the international buzz moving along.
     
     
  #155  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2007, 9:26 AM
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This project is definitely a pleasant surprise.
But, regarding the design, my first impression is not so good. Too sleek, too elegant.

And, also, it makes me think of that :

     
     
  #156  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2007, 11:42 AM
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http://www.suntimes.com/business/578...uild28.article

A developer is showing plans for a 100-story hotel and residential tower for Streeterville that, if built, would look like a little brother of the proposed Chicago Spire.

Get this.......the height is 1,100 ft tall.
     
     
  #157  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2007, 12:04 PM
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Just saw that one...

Quote:
http://www.suntimes.com/business/578...uild28.article

At about 1,100 feet, the building would be shorter than such skyline titans as the John Hancock Center or even the new Trump Tower. But it would command attention and be only a couple of blocks from the proposed spire, a 2,000-foot composition of celebrity architect Santiago Calatrava.

Whether the spire or Carley's building can be completed is up for debate, but the projects have more than a neighborhood in common. Carley used to own the spire property along Lake Shore Drive and interested Calatrava in the site before being bought out for his trouble.

For the new site, Carley said he's appropriated some ideas from his attempt at the Calatrava deal. Carley wants a building that's about half condominiums, 300 units, and half hotel, 325 rooms.
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  #158  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2007, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APPRAISER View Post
Hey everyone,
I don't post very much, and when I do, it's mostly questions about the construction process. As you can read, I'm real estate appraiser for the Chicagoland area. My wife and I also own a real estate investment company.
Most people have had there doubts about the condo glut in Chicago, but rest assure....Chicago's market is very healthy compared with the rest of the top 5 major cities in the U.S.
Within the past few years, Chicago has been noticed by several international real estate junkies to invest money here.
Why?... A weak American dollar and a slumping real estate market!!
New York and L.A. has always stood at the top for commercial and glamour when it came to the spotlight.
I'm not trying to troll, but L.A. and NYs real estate market have been soo far out of reach for so many people that it's almost impossible to buy there.
Chicago, on the other hand, has a much cheaper market with just as much to offer then both cities!
Food, entertainment, sports, you name it.....and has a great lake front.
Investors don't spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a builing unless they know that the market will support it.

Thanks
excellent post and should not be overlooked. I think demand here is doing very well, and the weak dollar is HUGE! That cant be stressed enough.

And as far as Spire and this building competing, The Spire is 1200 residences, this is what 1/3 that maybe? It will be mostly hotel no? If it was another 1200 residences going up, then I might question the sustainability of that.
     
     
  #159  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2007, 1:24 PM
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As I predicted, the Spire is going to spur competing projects that will be marketed to deep pockets outside the United States. I would expect at least one or two more supertall proposals in that area, perhaps from other high-profile developers not represented currently in Chicago - perhaps from the Middle East. The caveat, of course, is that if the Spire doesn't sell, this speculation is moot.

On a side note, these proposals also seem like a business community bet that Chicago is the front runner for 2016. The amount of international exposure a winning bid will generate, I believe, will greatly enhance any likelihood of success. If we win the bid, they will come like flies.
     
     
  #160  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2007, 1:39 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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From that article:
"The result was a building that toward the bottom has a conventional square shape but sharpens to a scalpel at the top."

Wow, if this building really starts as a square and then becomes convex by the time it reaches full height, that could be one stunning design!
     
     
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