Circuit of the Americas Formula 1 Race Track

[Schertz1]

Originally Posted by hookem

Keep in mind that Travis County is the whipping boy of the City of Austin, and the City of Austin is the whipping boy of the State of Texas... So in all frankness, Travis County will get whatever F1 wants to give them, and nothing more. If F1 has the state and city backing, it's not going to matter what Travis County thinks -- they are the low man on the totem pole in this case.

Besides, Whisper Valley was already on the annexation list for the City of Austin. If they go ahead and annex it, Travis County instantly has no relevance in the matter -- the roads, water infrastructure, zoning, permitting, etc. will all belong to the City just like that.

This is not true. If the development is not in the city, the developer must receive permits from the county. The sites proximity to the city and/or the city's annexation plan determines the level of overlap between city and county permits. In addition, a county has a great deal more power than you think.

[hookem]

Originally Posted by Schertz1

This is not true. If the development is not in the city, the developer must receive permits from the county. The sites proximity to the city and/or the city's annexation plan determines the level of overlap between city and county permits. In addition, a county has a great deal more power than you think.

It is indeed true; the county is lowest in the pecking order here.

The city can annex the area in as short as 90 days. And if they are doing it to get around the county, they won't be doing any sort of limited purpose district. They would annex everything straight up. They just need an SPA with the residents, and presumably that would be simple to get. Beyond that, the state can take the land with imminent domain -- the land could also be give to UT, which as a state entity would not need to play by Travis County (or CoA) rules for that matter.

Not that any of that will actually happen -- Travis County will not go against the will of the city or state. There is nothing for them to gain and everything to lose by doing that.

[hookem]

Originally Posted by H2O

This site has nothing to do with Whisper Valley. Whisper Valley is across the river near Decker Lake.

Yes, you are right -- it's Wandering Creek that I should have mentioned. Same situation (ETJ of CoA). It just needs an SPA with the developers and the city to be annexed. I assume that was always the plan at some point, but as I said, it can happen faster if it needs to.

[Schertz1]

Originally Posted by hookem

It is indeed true; the county is lowest in the pecking order here.

The city can annex the area in as short as 90 days. And if they are doing it to get around the county, they won't be doing any sort of limited purpose district. They would annex everything straight up. They just need an SPA with the residents, and presumably that would be simple to get. Beyond that, the state can take the land with imminent domain -- the land could also be give to UT, which as a state entity would not need to play by Travis County (or CoA) rules for that matter.

Not that any of that will actually happen -- Travis County will not go against the will of the city or state. There is nothing for them to gain and everything to lose by doing that.

I have dealt with Harris County and different municipalities within the county for many years. I am also familiar with Bexar and Guadalupe Counties, so unless Travis County behaves differently than these three, I do not believe you. Please provide a source for the 90-day annexation process. Annexation is not a slam-dunk anywhere, look at the Woodlands and Kingwood.

Condemnation of property through imminent domain is a lengthy process, even when property owners willingly comply. If they do not comply, it could be in court well past 2012.

In addition, are you suggesting that the will of the City and State is to disregard established site development and permitting procedures for F1? Moreover, what will the legal implications be for the next big developer and project, say a Villa Muse?

[Armybrat]

Originally Posted by Schertz1

This is laughable on 100 and 1 levels. Less than three months to dirt work and they have no engineered plans. In fact, they are not even close. There are no environmental impact studies, no traffic studies, no secured right of ways, no commitments on expanding the infrastructure, no plan on where to move the gas lines, no noise studies. It will be loud, what kind of bull s___ is this? We are so quick to commit public funds to any millionaire with a pipe dream. How about this, if it is a viable project go to a bank or commit your own funds. Texas should look great after this thing falls apart.

Environmental impact studies?

I'll save you two or three totally wasted years:

The only thing this construction would impact in that area would be several trillion fire ants.

As far as the watershed drainage into the Colorado, it might offset all the revered Congress Avenue Bridge batshit deposited in it.

[hookem]

Originally Posted by Schertz1

I have dealt with Harris County and different municipalities within the county for many years. I am also familiar with Bexar and Guadalupe Counties, so unless Travis County behaves differently than these three, I do not believe you. Please provide a source for the 90-day annexation process. Annexation is not a slam-dunk anywhere, look at the Woodlands and Kingwood.

Your examples of the Woodlands and Kingwood don't really apply, as they are large residential municipalities -- and they probably don't want to be annexed. For those types of entities, there is a longer process of 3 years (or can be dragged out to much more).

But commercial properties, or cases where the majority of the owners want to be annexed (along with many other exceptions) are considered "exempt" from the lengthy process. You can review the rules here, and decide if you think the F1 tract is exempt:

http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/annexation/procedure.htm

Annexation of an exempt area may take place after the City has conducted an inter-departmental staff review of the area, provided proper notification, and conducted two public hearings at City Council in accordance with state law. The process may take up to six months, depending on the City Council meeting schedule. For further information, please read How to Request Annexation.

I say 90 days is a reasonable minimum, which I base on the requirements for public disclosure and the various postings that are necessary.

Condemnation of property through imminent domain is a lengthy process, even when property owners willingly comply. If they do not comply, it could be in court well past 2012.

Why are you under the impression that the owners wouldn't comply? If imminent domain is used, it will be with the intention of moving the project forward; something the owners would want. Again, though, this will never happen... for the reasons I stated earlier.

In addition, are you suggesting that the will of the City and State is to disregard established site development and permitting procedures for F1? Moreover, what will the legal implications be for the next big developer and project, say a Villa Muse?

I'm not sure what argument you are trying to make here; the city and state regularly play very aggressively with lower municipalities. That's nothing new, so I'm not sure what legal implications you think might come of it. Villa Muse was killed by the city, BTW. And it wasn't even land in the city -- it was in the ETJ just like the F1 land. That should tell you something.

In closing, I just find it strange that the video of the Travis County meeting made such a big splash on the various blogs... I mean, it wasn't even a good "Youtube moment". Far more entertaining showdowns happen in county meetings happen all the time. But it seems that the F1 detractors are just so angry at Austin getting the race, that they'll jump on ANYTHING that makes it look bad. It just seems so desperate. But there is plenty of Texas-hate out there in America, so I expect we'll see much more...

[Schertz1]

Originally Posted by hookem

Your examples of the Woodlands and Kingwood don't really apply, as they are large residential municipalities -- and they probably don't want to be annexed. For those types of entities, there is a longer process of 3 years (or can be dragged out to much more).

But commercial properties, or cases where the majority of the owners want to be annexed (along with many other exceptions) are considered "exempt" from the lengthy process. You can review the rules here, and decide if you think the F1 tract is exempt:

http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/annexation/procedure.htm



I say 90 days is a reasonable minimum, which I base on the requirements for public disclosure and the various postings that are necessary.


Why are you under the impression that the owners wouldn't comply? If imminent domain is used, it will be with the intention of moving the project forward; something the owners would want. Again, though, this will never happen... for the reasons I stated earlier.


I'm not sure what argument you are trying to make here; the city and state regularly play very aggressively with lower municipalities. That's nothing new, so I'm not sure what legal implications you think might come of it. Villa Muse was killed by the city, BTW. And it wasn't even land in the city -- it was in the ETJ just like the F1 land. That should tell you something.

In closing, I just find it strange that the video of the Travis County meeting made such a big splash on the various blogs... I mean, it wasn't even a good "Youtube moment". Far more entertaining showdowns happen in county meetings happen all the time. But it seems that the F1 detractors are just so angry at Austin getting the race, that they'll jump on ANYTHING that makes it look bad. It just seems so desperate. But there is plenty of Texas-hate out there in America, so I expect we'll see much more...

Last post buddy. You are hell bent on assuming the stars will line up for F1. The County is not a lower municipality. Why do you assume all property owners will want to live near the racetrack or agree with the value offered for their property? When will traffic studies determining which properties are needed to improve throughput be completed? It is not like there is a great deal of time to figure this stuff out. I understand some areas are not part of annexation plans, but 90 days is your timeline, not the city's. This is probably why you cannot provide the 90-day annexation process. If you cannot understand the legal implications of establishing a precedent, especially when dealing with permitting, infrastructure guidelines, and people with the means to sue when not given the same consideration, I will not make an effort to explain. I am not angry F1 is coming to Austin; I do not care. Since you choose to go there, I live in Houston, what does Austin have to make me envious or angry? You are overly defensive of an obviously flawed plan.
In closing, I will say again, this track may be built, but it has a snow Ball's chance in hell of making a 2012 race.

[hookem]

"You were right" would have sufficed, Schertz1.

And your welcome.

[Armybrat]

More in today's AAS - with the best detailed layout map yet:

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/conte...details_a.html

[KevinFromTexas]

http://www.statesman.com/business/au...inglePage=true

Austin F1 track builder Hermann Tilke: a real-life Lord of the Rings

By Andreas Grosse Halbuer
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Updated: 11:45 a.m. Sunday, Oct. 3, 2010
Published: 7:46 p.m. Saturday, Oct. 2, 2010

What may be the world's greatest auto racetrack engineering company began in 1986 with a tiny strip of concrete.

After finishing his degree at the University of Aachen in western Germany, Hermann Tilke — then a 30-year-old civil engineer — carried out one of his first contracts: Planning a 20-yard-long service road to the famous Nuerburgring , one of the nation's oldest racetracks in the Eifel mountain range in western Germany. His salary for the job: 600 deutsche marks, about $300 at that time.

That project was the first step by a modest engineer into the glittery and sometimes hyperactive Formula One circus.

Now, 24 years later, the 55 — year-old Tilke is the world's leading circuit designer — a real-life Lord of the Rings.

His privately held company, founded as a one-person firm, now has about 350 architects and engineers and offices all over the world.

Tilke GmbH has had a hand designing and/or building 11 of the 20 circuits in the current F1 race calendar. The planned Austin track will be its first such project in the United States.

[KevinFromTexas]

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/...ns-962173.html

Planners pepper Formula One promoters with questions
Developers say project is on schedule, but Travis official says they've got 'a way to go.'

By Eric Dexheimer
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Published: 9:09 p.m. Friday, Oct. 8, 2010

Local promoter Full Throttle Productions maintains that it is racing toward a December groundbreaking on its Formula One track southeast of Austin and will be ready to host its first event in 2012, but a joint land-use review committee made up of city, county and state planners has waved a caution flag.

In a four-page memo sent to Full Throttle last week, the planners peppered the promoter with queries about the 900-acre project. The breadth of their concerns suggests that the plan to bring the international race to Austin in two years is still some distance from satisfying the government officials who will need to sign off on it before any concrete is poured.

[Armybrat]

Sounds like thinly veiled request from the local politicos for their cut of the vig.

[Spaceman]

If you think the small minded leaders in this county are going to sign off on a project as grand as this, you're dreaming. Nothing gets built in the rural areas of Travis County...Take the 130 toll road and look at the emptyness.It will look the same ten years from now...

[Armybrat]

Originally Posted by Spaceman

If you think the small minded leaders in this county are going to sign off on a project as grand as this, you're dreaming. Nothing gets built in the rural areas of Travis County...Take the 130 toll road and look at the emptyness.It will look the same ten years from now...

That's what they said about western Travis County 25 years ago. How did that work out?

Money talks, bs walks.

When the grease flows, the local politicos are lubed.

There will be some pretty big envelopes full of cash exchanged. That's the way it works here just like it does anywhere else. Please don't kid yourself otherwise.

[hookem]

Originally Posted by Spaceman

If you think the small minded leaders in this county are going to sign off on a project as grand as this, you're dreaming. Nothing gets built in the rural areas of Travis County...Take the 130 toll road and look at the emptyness.It will look the same ten years from now...

If you think that the lowly Travis County officials can stand in the way of something that the City of Austin and the State of TX are behind, you are dreaming.

After all, look at your own example of the 130 tollway. They could do nothing to stop that, even had they wanted to.

If the F1 track doesn't happen, it's not going to be due to some county bureaucrats.

[bluedogok]

It's too bad that piece of property wasn't just a little bit further east in Bastrop County.

[UTSABA06]

Planners pepper Formula One promoters with questions
Developers say project is on schedule, but Travis official says they've got 'a way to go.'

By Eric Dexheimer
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Published: 9:09 p.m. Friday, Oct. 8, 2010

Local promoter Full Throttle Productions maintains that it is racing toward a December groundbreaking on its Formula One track southeast of Austin and will be ready to host its first event in 2012, but a joint land-use review committee made up of city, county and state planners has waved a caution flag.

In a four-page memo sent to Full Throttle last week, the planners peppered the promoter with queries about the 900-acre project. The breadth of their concerns suggests that the plan to bring the international race to Austin in two years is still some distance from satisfying the government officials who will need to sign off on it before any concrete is poured.

Hate to say it, but this whole thing is beginning to sound more and more sketchy... or is it just me?

[nixcity]

What sounds the most sketchy to mo is how the county is dragging its feet on coridnating efforts to improve the road infrastructure in the area. It seems like they are TRYING to make this thing a failure but these guys know what they are doing and we should do everything possible to make this a success. I am the farthest thing from a car racing fan but anything that brings in this many jobs, world travelers and economic impact MUST be pursued to keep this city moving forward.

[Spaceman]

County officials are unable to grasp the magnitude of a venture like this. Not surprising at all. They appreciate junk yards and trailer parks....That is what they understand....So sad...The racing folks should have looked at the western part of the county not the wasteland that is east Travis County.

[Armybrat]

Originally Posted by Spaceman

County officials are unable to grasp the magnitude of a venture like this. Not surprising at all. They appreciate junk yards and trailer parks....That is what they understand....So sad...The racing folks should have looked at the western part of the county not the wasteland that is east Travis County.

But if the environmentalists discovered a new rare species of blind wombats there, nothing would be built fer sure.