HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #41  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2014, 4:56 AM
geotag277 geotag277 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
This isn't 15 years ago, I haven't seen huge salary differences for similar jobs between the cities. The biggest difference for engineers as but one example I have found is in Edmonton eventually you are doing a stint in a fab yard with shift work whereas in Calgary you can fly a desk forever.
I think there is a large untapped market in Edmonton for people who do want desk jobs, that's the thing. Certainly enough to support a major corporate headquarters moving there.

Also I'm sure there are many skilled workers from UofA graduating who might want to stay in Edmonton.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #42  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2014, 6:50 AM
ue ue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Notleygrad, Albertastan
Posts: 8,793
^If the support was there, then the corporate offices would've never left Edmonton for Calgary in the first place. The reality is that while Edmonton has a strong white collar sector and demand for more, it won't be enough to reverse or even balance the trend of corporate offices towards Calgary. It already has the established business centre and like others mentioned, these types of businesses like to cluster together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadillaccc View Post
I don't expect to see the gap widen that much... it's currently at about 85 000, so I'd say that the max we will see by 2025 would be 150 000. That would still put Calgary between 1.6 and 1.7 million which is awesome to think. Regardless, in any scenario I wouldn't want to see either city's growth slow before that time frame. Both cities are going to feel completely different by that year. Edmonton's Cultural and Arena districts should be fully up and running, Calgary's East Village, Eau Claire redevelopment, 8th Ave Subway, and West Village should be up and running, and both cities will have their sights set on 2 million. We're in a very exciting and pivotal point in the development of this province. I'm anxious to see how all of these megadevelopments pan out
Yeah, I don't think the gap will widen be 300,000, but more in the 100,000-200,000 range (which would peg Edmonton at 1.5 and Calgary 1.6 or 1.7 million). Still wouldn't surprise me if it did, aside from a couple years, Calgary has consistently grown faster than Edmonton. Not significantly, but significant enough that Calgary will remain Alberta's largest city for the foreseeable future. Both cities at 2+ million will be a sight to behold.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #43  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2014, 5:05 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 10,616
^ Exactly, neither city will be hollowed out at the expense of the other. We have an amazing opportunity to transform our cities entirely once again over the next 20 years. f
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2014, 7:06 PM
Chadillaccc's Avatar
Chadillaccc Chadillaccc is offline
ARTchitecture
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cold Garden
Posts: 20,173
I don't think it needs to be a competition, both cities are so different, and I like it like that. It adds greatly to the dynamicity of our great province. Just the fact that we are one of only two provinces with two cities over a million people is pretty awesome, and now soon we will have two more cities recognized as CMAs. As I said before, we are in a pivotal point in the development of this province. The only thing missing is Lethbridge developing a city centre redevelopment plan(s) like the other three have. Hopefully that comes soon, Lethbridge is a nice city.
__________________
Strong & free

'My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.' — Jack Layton
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #45  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2014, 7:12 PM
ue ue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Notleygrad, Albertastan
Posts: 8,793
I agree, it is a very interesting time in Alberta's history, perhaps the most interesting. Never before have so many Canadians been keeping their eyes peeled at Alberta. I wouldn't consider Edmonton and Calgary so different. Different yes, they are, but they're also remarkably similar.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #46  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2014, 4:18 PM
Edmontonium's Avatar
Edmontonium Edmontonium is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 63
I would say as city Calgary is attractive, but as metro area Edmonton has more potential. Calgary's metro urban core is overstretched from north to south. On west side is scenic view and expensive too, also difficult terain. East side is dry prairie not very attractive to live. Vise versa Edmonton can grow in any direction with no limits in sight and all directions can be attractive. Also it has huge industrial base all around like Acheson, Nisku, Strathcona energy row and ft Saskatchewan. So it can grow outwards comfortably. I find traffic is more organized in Edmonton than Calgary because of urban planning and favorite landscape.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #47  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2014, 6:59 PM
Chadillaccc's Avatar
Chadillaccc Chadillaccc is offline
ARTchitecture
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cold Garden
Posts: 20,173
Edmonton certainly has more potential. That is not to say that Calgary doesn't still have a ton of potential for improvement. Edmonton has more potential because its first building boom in decades has just begun, while Calgary has been going through a building boom for 15 years, which has seen around 100 highrises (over 35 meters) built, including 17 skyscrapers (over 100 meters), along with countless infrastructure projects including Stoney Trail, the West Line, and the 7th Avenue Redevelopment. Both cities have a long way to go, but amazing proposals and municipal governments with the will to see these projects through.
__________________
Strong & free

'My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.' — Jack Layton
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #48  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2014, 3:17 AM
Procrastinational's Avatar
Procrastinational Procrastinational is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmontonium View Post
I would say as city Calgary is attractive, but as metro area Edmonton has more potential. Calgary's metro urban core is overstretched from north to south. On west side is scenic view and expensive too, also difficult terain. East side is dry prairie not very attractive to live. Vise versa Edmonton can grow in any direction with no limits in sight and all directions can be attractive. Also it has huge industrial base all around like Acheson, Nisku, Strathcona energy row and ft Saskatchewan. So it can grow outwards comfortably. I find traffic is more organized in Edmonton than Calgary because of urban planning and favorite landscape.
The one thing that Calgary really has over Edmonton in terms of being attractive (regardless of development) is the occasional mountain view.

Whenever I go to Alberta, I always get the sense in Edmonton that the city could literally sprawl out endlessly, kind of like areas around Toronto have, whereas Calgary feels a little more constrained by some of the nearby hills.
If I had to guess, I'd put my money on Calgary becoming quite a bit more dense than Edmonton over the next few decades because of that. Although I also wouldn't be surprised if both cities really sprawl out in the short term once they both have fully completed ring roads.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #49  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2014, 10:52 PM
Chadillaccc's Avatar
Chadillaccc Chadillaccc is offline
ARTchitecture
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cold Garden
Posts: 20,173
I just did a calculation. Assuming Calgary's 2013 metro population of 1.37 million, and this year's likely population of about 1.42 million, even if Calgary's population growth falls back to 40 000/year, we will hit 2 million in 15 years. Also, in the unlikely event our growth falls way back to our past 22-year-average of 28 000/ year, we will still hit 2 million within 21 years. I would probably put my money on 16 years for us to reach 2 million. These are incredible times.

I just did one for Alberta too, if the province keeps growing by its average of the past 4 years (87 000/ year) assuming Alberta's 2014 population of 4.1 million, we will hit 5 million by summer of 2024. I'd imagine it will probably be 2026 or so though.
__________________
Strong & free

'My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.' — Jack Layton
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #50  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2014, 11:07 PM
ue ue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Notleygrad, Albertastan
Posts: 8,793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Procrastinational View Post
The one thing that Calgary really has over Edmonton in terms of being attractive (regardless of development) is the occasional mountain view.

Whenever I go to Alberta, I always get the sense in Edmonton that the city could literally sprawl out endlessly, kind of like areas around Toronto have, whereas Calgary feels a little more constrained by some of the nearby hills.
If I had to guess, I'd put my money on Calgary becoming quite a bit more dense than Edmonton over the next few decades because of that. Although I also wouldn't be surprised if both cities really sprawl out in the short term once they both have fully completed ring roads.
Except that Toronto doesn't sprawl out endlessly and if you think it does, I'd suggest some time down south. Calgary doesn't really have much geographical constraints over Edmonton and I foresee both developing at similar population densities.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #51  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2014, 7:46 AM
Bcasey25raptor's Avatar
Bcasey25raptor Bcasey25raptor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Vancouver-False Creek
Posts: 2,217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadillaccc View Post
I just did a calculation. Assuming Calgary's 2013 metro population of 1.37 million, and this year's likely population of about 1.42 million, even if Calgary's population growth falls back to 40 000/year, we will hit 2 million in 15 years. Also, in the unlikely event our growth falls way back to our past 22-year-average of 28 000/ year, we will still hit 2 million within 21 years. I would probably put my money on 16 years for us to reach 2 million. These are incredible times.

I just did one for Alberta too, if the province keeps growing by its average of the past 4 years (87 000/ year) assuming Alberta's 2014 population of 4.1 million, we will hit 5 million by summer of 2024. I'd imagine it will probably be 2026 or so though.
I could see Calgary with 2 million people by 2030 easily. My main question is how that growth will occur, will it build up or out?

Either way it's very interesting times in Alberta, You keep stealing the young of BC, considering that I could see Alberta surpassing BC in population quite possibly in 10-15 years.

I am really interested in seeing the skylines of both Albertan metropolis's in 2030. Now that'd be something awesome.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #52  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2014, 7:56 AM
ue ue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Notleygrad, Albertastan
Posts: 8,793
It will probably be a mixture of both, with an emphasis on outward growth, though less of an emphasis than there is today.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #53  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2014, 4:53 PM
Wizened Variations's Avatar
Wizened Variations Wizened Variations is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,611
Quote:
Originally Posted by geotag277 View Post
I think there is a large untapped market in Edmonton for people who do want desk jobs, that's the thing. Certainly enough to support a major corporate headquarters moving there.

Also I'm sure there are many skilled workers from UofA graduating who might want to stay in Edmonton.
Any business needs some footprint close to the provincial government. Some businesses need a huge footprint. Whatever the organization, if lobbying helps, Edmonton is there to help you.

Two siblings. Class and Gas.
__________________
Good read on relationship between increasing number of freeway lanes and traffic

http://www.vtpi.org/gentraf.pdf
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #54  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2014, 5:02 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 10,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizened Variations View Post
Any business needs some footprint close to the provincial government. Some businesses need a huge footprint. Whatever the organization, if lobbying helps, Edmonton is there to help you.

Two siblings. Class and Gas.
Travel is pretty easy, and there is a huge provincial government footprint in Calgary. If it was a deciding factor, there would have been movement overtime. Even the industry associations are based in Calgary. Lobbying is 95% client management and 5% government engagement.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #55  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2014, 6:57 PM
Chadillaccc's Avatar
Chadillaccc Chadillaccc is offline
ARTchitecture
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cold Garden
Posts: 20,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor View Post
I could see Calgary with 2 million people by 2030 easily. My main question is how that growth will occur, will it build up or out?

Either way it's very interesting times in Alberta, You keep stealing the young of BC, considering that I could see Alberta surpassing BC in population quite possibly in 10-15 years.

I am really interested in seeing the skylines of both Albertan metropolis's in 2030. Now that'd be something awesome.
If we can keep Nenshi in office for the next decade, I think the demographic will shift from the current 80% out - 20% up, hopefully to 50/50. He and council are actually making some pretty good decisions when it comes to curbing our sprawl. They just really need to streamline the process for inner-city redevelopment applications when it comes to small things like tearing down a 60s-era stucco house in order to build a new duplex. I have confidence that this will come in due time though. Also, when I say 50/50 I don't mean that all of those 50%-up will be in towers, but a lot more inner city redevelopment like what I just mentioned with SFH lots being converted into duplexes and stuff like that. There will be a lot of tower developments in the Beltline, Eau Claire, West and East Villages though. Our inner city population could probably double comfortably. Though, I would just settle for it increasing from 150 000 to 250 000.
__________________
Strong & free

'My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.' — Jack Layton
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #56  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2014, 10:34 PM
Oliver Klozov Oliver Klozov is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizened Variations View Post
....Whatever the organization, if lobbying helps, Edmonton is there to help you.
When it comes to attracting corporate headquarters, Edmonton has one thing going for it .... Calgary's mayor!

He's quite similar to the kind of mayors Edmonton had back in the 50s and 60s that chased out the headquarters (moved to Calgary).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #57  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2014, 10:46 PM
ue ue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Notleygrad, Albertastan
Posts: 8,793
^ Wasn't it more from the '70s thru to the '90s that the corporations moved en masse to Calgary?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadillaccc View Post
If we can keep Nenshi in office for the next decade, I think the demographic will shift from the current 80% out - 20% up, hopefully to 50/50. He and council are actually making some pretty good decisions when it comes to curbing our sprawl. They just really need to streamline the process for inner-city redevelopment applications when it comes to small things like tearing down a 60s-era stucco house in order to build a new duplex. I have confidence that this will come in due time though. Also, when I say 50/50 I don't mean that all of those 50%-up will be in towers, but a lot more inner city redevelopment like what I just mentioned with SFH lots being converted into duplexes and stuff like that. There will be a lot of tower developments in the Beltline, Eau Claire, West and East Villages though. Our inner city population could probably double comfortably. Though, I would just settle for it increasing from 150 000 to 250 000.
I have a tough time seeing it go to 50-50, especially in only a decade. 60-40, maybe, but I think 70-30 is more realistic for 2024.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #58  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2014, 11:03 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 10,616
I had thought the last few years had hit 30/70, maybe I am misremembering.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #59  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2014, 12:00 AM
Chadillaccc's Avatar
Chadillaccc Chadillaccc is offline
ARTchitecture
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cold Garden
Posts: 20,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
I had thought the last few years had hit 30/70, maybe I am misremembering.
Do you mean 30/70 with 70% of new residents moving into the inner city? That sounds extremely high. Or did you just switch around the way we were using the numbers? Even still, with 30% moving into already developed inner neighbourhoods, that is awesome.
__________________
Strong & free

'My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.' — Jack Layton
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #60  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2014, 1:17 AM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 10,616
yeah sorry flipped it. 70% green field.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 3:55 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.