Northern Ontario developments!

[vid]

Pretty soon we might not have big box stores at all. If you want something generic, you'll order it online through Amazon. Shopping will once again become an experience, and local businesses will flourish by offering curated selections of things and advice that Amazon itself could never replicate.

[Conker]

There is a tax advantage the province gives to big corporations that they do not give to small business. Big Box stores can appeal their property valuations based their buildings having no value on the open market. A Canadian Tire store is so specialized in it's design that well it is only good for a CTC Store. This is why we have had an empty CTC Store here in Thunder Bay for almost 2 decades. Taxes have to be based on land occupied not value of some crappy building on the land.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Conker

There is a tax advantage the province gives to big corporations that they do not give to small business. Big Box stores can appeal their property valuations based their buildings having no value on the open market. A Canadian Tire store is so specialized in it's design that well it is only good for a CTC Store. This is why we have had an empty CTC Store here in Thunder Bay for almost 2 decades. Taxes have to be based on land occupied not value of some crappy building on the land.

There we go. It’s sad that even in democracy, money = political influence.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Conker

There is a tax advantage the province gives to big corporations that they do not give to small business. Big Box stores can appeal their property valuations based their buildings having no value on the open market. A Canadian Tire store is so specialized in it's design that well it is only good for a CTC Store. This is why we have had an empty CTC Store here in Thunder Bay for almost 2 decades. Taxes have to be based on land occupied not value of some crappy building on the land.

Canadian Tire could have easily put the County Fair location on the market a long time ago. When Goldmanco bought the Quality Market and hallway portions of the mall, CTC could have sold their property to them to allow them to properly consolidate the structure so they'd have more options on what to do with it.

Canadian Tire Corporations does not want to sell its land. I don't know why. I don't understand this aspect of real estate. They simply refuse, and have refused for almost 20 years now. IIRC, it was Canadian Tire that was the main obstacle to turning the former store in County Fair Mall into a gym. At this point that structure is so decayed inside that there is no option for it but demolition.

And the argument that the building is "too unique" for re-use is bullshit. You can subdivide it into a strip mall and have a garage business in the garage part, and other businesses in the rest of the store. If Lowes could turn a former mall anchor space into an indoor lumberyard, a Canadian Tire building can be turned into a strip mall with a garage on one side.

[F. Lionel]

Originally Posted by vid

Canadian Tire could have easily put the County Fair location on the market a long time ago. When Goldmanco bought the Quality Market and hallway portions of the mall, CTC could have sold their property to them to allow them to properly consolidate the structure so they'd have more options on what to do with it.

Canadian Tire Corporations does not want to sell its land. I don't know why. I don't understand this aspect of real estate. They simply refuse, and have refused for almost 20 years now. IIRC, it was Canadian Tire that was the main obstacle to turning the former store in County Fair Mall into a gym. At this point that structure is so decayed inside that there is no option for it but demolition.

And the argument that the building is "too unique" for re-use is bullshit. You can subdivide it into a strip mall and have a garage business in the garage part, and other businesses in the rest of the store. If Lowes could turn a former mall anchor space into an indoor lumberyard, a Canadian Tire building can be turned into a strip mall with a garage on one side.

Just a question for clarification: Who actually owns the building though? Is it the Corporation or the local franchise owner? I've heard a few different interpretations of this whole situation now but I don't think I've ever found out who owns what.

I also find it interesting that Goldmanco hasn't basically torn down the rest of the mall. Keeping it lit and heated cannot be cheap and I don't believe that the current 7 tenants spend enough in rent to keep it in the black.

It is quite sad what has happened with County Fair considering its location is still a prime one for retail development in the northwest end of city.

Also - Canadian Tire County Fair was built decades ago as a replacement for their store on Cumberland Street which was re-purposed as office space now called Villa Commons (not a garage in sight). As far as I am concerned that calls BS on the argument that the spaces are totally unique and only useful as CanTire stores.

Did you know? The Canadian Tire store was originally built to face Renfrew Rd, which was closed by a City of TB By-Law decades ago. A stump of Renfrew still exists as, basically, an extra wide walking trail connecting County Park with the backside of the Mall.

[vid]

Originally Posted by F. Lionel

Just a question for clarification: Who actually owns the building though? Is it the Corporation or the local franchise owner? I've heard a few different interpretations of this whole situation now but I don't think I've ever found out who owns what.

I don't actually know who, specifically, owns it, but Canadian Tire does work on a franchise model so it could very well be the same person who owns the Fort William Road location. It could also be the previous owner of that franchise (IIRC it changed ownership about 5 or 6 years ago).

Originally Posted by F. Lionel

I also find it interesting that Goldmanco hasn't basically torn down the rest of the mall. Keeping it lit and heated cannot be cheap and I don't believe that the current 7 tenants spend enough in rent to keep it in the black.

At this point with the library and Fabricland I think a large portion of the mall is now occupied, but I agree that it's unlikely it's profitable. The place breaks even at best. I'm not sure what Goldmanco's long game is here and I'm honestly kind of surprised they still own it. They don't brag about it on their website, all the supporting documentation for the mall has been removed for a while.

https://www.goldmanco.ca/thunderbay

The page says there is 16,680 sqft left to lease, but it also doesn't list Fabricland and that store is about 15,000 sqft. The Fabricland store hides the old Canadian Tire entrance, so it can't be linked up to the mall anymore.

Originally Posted by F. Lionel

Also - Canadian Tire County Fair was built decades ago as a replacement for their store on Cumberland Street which was re-purposed as office space now called Villa Commons (not a garage in sight). As far as I am concerned that calls BS on the argument that the spaces are totally unique and only useful as CanTire stores.

Look at the gym in the Arthur Street location!

Originally Posted by F. Lionel

Did you know? The Canadian Tire store was originally built to face Renfrew Rd, which was closed by a City of TB By-Law decades ago. A stump of Renfrew still exists as, basically, an extra wide walking trail connecting County Park with the backside of the Mall.

I knew about Renfrew Road (or as one of my old maps of the city calls it, "Renfrewewew Road") but I didn't know it was closed after the Canadian Tire was built.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by vid

Pretty soon we might not have big box stores at all. If you want something generic, you'll order it online through Amazon. Shopping will once again become an experience, and local businesses will flourish by offering curated selections of things and advice that Amazon itself could never replicate.

That could happen but another thing that may not allow online companies to grow so much is transportation and delivery. There are not enough delivery companies, infrastructure and people working for them today to satisfy the growing demand. Larger pick-up depots may be needed as it would require fewer delivery people than having home delivery and cut costs.

In Northern Ontario, I find that we don't get the quick shipping (Amazon Prime, etc.) much of the time. It's possible to have it but the market doesn't allow for it unless we are willing to pay more which pretty much defeats the purpose of online shopping.

[F. Lionel]

Originally Posted by Loco101

That could happen but another thing that may not allow online companies to grow so much is transportation and delivery. There are not enough delivery companies, infrastructure and people working for them today to satisfy the growing demand. Larger pick-up depots may be needed as it would require fewer delivery people than having home delivery and cut costs.

In Northern Ontario, I find that we don't get the quick shipping (Amazon Prime, etc.) much of the time. It's possible to have it but the market doesn't allow for it unless we are willing to pay more which pretty much defeats the purpose of online shopping.

This is a huge thing. Many times I cannot get quick shipping from Amazon Prime to my home (just the normal 7 day shipping) which is along 11/17 but I can get 2-Day shipping to my place of work within Thunder Bay.

I would accept 2 Day shipping to a depot if there were one relatively close, such as the Canyon Country Co-Op. It would work well if each small town/township had one - Pass Lake (at the Flying J), Dorion-Hurkett, Red Rock, Nipigon, Rossport, Pays Plat, Schreiber, Terrace Bay etc. A local business that has a space set aside for parcel pick up from Amazon would probably do very well for itself.

[F. Lionel]

Originally Posted by vid

At this point with the library and Fabricland I think a large portion of the mall is now occupied, but I agree that it's unlikely it's profitable. The place breaks even at best. I'm not sure what Goldmanco's long game is here and I'm honestly kind of surprised they still own it. They don't brag about it on their website, all the supporting documentation for the mall has been removed for a while.

https://www.goldmanco.ca/thunderbay

The page says there is 16,680 sqft left to lease, but it also doesn't list Fabricland and that store is about 15,000 sqft. The Fabricland store hides the old Canadian Tire entrance, so it can't be linked up to the mall anymore.

The mall itself is still quite empty. The entire food court and main corridor are completely devoid of tenants. Probably more than 50% leased but definitely looks like a dead mall once you are through the doors. Not providing access to No Frills or Dollarama from the inside of the mall was another nail in that coffin. Why go inside if what I need is only accessible from the outside? Even BMO is orientated to their small outside entrance now.

I'm thinking that Goldmanco is sitting on the property with plans in the far future. TBay isn't exactly growing by leaps and bounds right now and that's a good place to own land zoned for commercial use. But it's also expensive to tear down and build new. If you can get enough companies to rent space in the mall in the meantime then nurse it along and wait for a brighter future.

[vid]

Canada Post is offering something similar to a central pick-up for parcels that they're calling Penguin Pick-up: https://www.penguinpickup.com/

It has a couple participating businesses. I'm sure in the future this will become more common. We already do something like this with the parcel services at Ryden's and Grand Portage. Like F. Lionel, when I have stuff shipped to me, I usually ship it to work instead of home (even though they're literally 200 feet away from each other on the same street) because they tend to ignore home deliveries and bring them straight to Shoppers.

Amazon Prime might not offer the fastest shipping, but I am pretty sure it still offers free shipping, which if you're a high volume customer still makes the service worth it. I personally don't use Amazon because they treat their employees like shit.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by vid

Canada Post is offering something similar to a central pick-up for parcels that they're calling Penguin Pick-up: https://www.penguinpickup.com/

It has a couple participating businesses. I'm sure in the future this will become more common. We already do something like this with the parcel services at Ryden's and Grand Portage. Like F. Lionel, when I have stuff shipped to me, I usually ship it to work instead of home (even though they're literally 200 feet away from each other on the same street) because they tend to ignore home deliveries and bring them straight to Shoppers.

Amazon Prime might not offer the fastest shipping, but I am pretty sure it still offers free shipping, which if you're a high volume customer still makes the service worth it. I personally don't use Amazon because they treat their employees like shit.

Ah boycott

[vid]

It's hard to completely boycott them though, so many websites use Amazon AWS these days.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by F. Lionel

Also - Canadian Tire County Fair was built decades ago as a replacement for their store on Cumberland Street which was re-purposed as office space now called Villa Commons (not a garage in sight). As far as I am concerned that calls BS on the argument that the spaces are totally unique and only useful as CanTire stores.

.

I vaguely remember this store, where was it and when did it close?

[F. Lionel]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

I vaguely remember this store, where was it and when did it close?

It was on the corner of Villa & Cumberland, across Villa from the LCBO.
I'm not too sure of when it closed though... late sixties... sometime in the seventies. It was definitely gone by the eighties.

[TbayON]

I'm going to guess it was another case of location, location, location in terms of Goldmanco purchasing County Fair. There is a huge amount of traffic there, and the parking lot on the Dawson side is generally pretty full. The downfall is the layout, its absolutely terrible (even before No Frills and Walmart cut off access from the Dawson Rd. side). The mall will likely never amount to anything, unless is re-purposed away from retail more towards office or professional space at reasonable lease rates. The only other option would be to introduce a medium density residential development at the rear of the property in hopes it will create enough traffic to make the area desirable to more businesses. This is an approach many malls are taking to survive now.

I also believe Goldmanco was hoping there would be more uptake from retailers in terms of building new pad spaces in the parking lot (like is currently happening at Arthur St. Marketplace). They have been advertising this option since they bought the property.

One must also remember Goldmanco is from the GTA, and their main focus is going to be their investments in their own backyard. They probably don't focus on Thunder Bay near as much. The retail scene here just isn't as strong as the GTA as a result of the lack of population growth despite the relatively higher levels of disposable income in T-Bay.

[TbayON]

THUNDER BAY

Construction has started on the new 3 storey office building on Fort William First Nation. It will be located in the main business section.

There is some site work being undertaken on the empty land across from St. Joe's main hospital site on Algoma Street. I'm hearing there will eventually be a multi-unit residential building developed on the site. Construction does not sound imminent at this time though.

There is finally some action at the new Scotiabank location on W. Arthur St. The contractor and a crane are on site now.

The city has tendered a relatively large renovation to its McKellar Mall space inside Victoriaville. The renovation would happen over the winter and into spring if it goes ahead.

Work on Marshall's and Urban Planet inside Intercity Mall are imminent, if not underway already.

Red Lion will be moving out of its current space at Cumberland and Park Ave. They released an advertisement indicating they'll be moving 'just up the street'. I haven't confirmed where that'll be yet, but they will need a fairly large space if they plan on occupying a similar sized footprint. My guess is their lease came up... I wonder who wants the main floor space??? On a recent walk around the north core, I noticed a couple other vacant spaces are in the process of being renovated.

[vid]

Work on Marshall's and Urban Planet is, indeed, underway. Tom Jones is the general contractor.

[frankp]

Originally Posted by TbayON

THUNDER BAY

Construction has started on the new 3 storey office building on Fort William First Nation. It will be located in the main business section.

There is some site work being undertaken on the empty land across from St. Joe's main hospital site on Algoma Street. I'm hearing there will eventually be a multi-unit residential building developed on the site. Construction does not sound imminent at this time though.

There is finally some action at the new Scotiabank location on W. Arthur St. The contractor and a crane are on site now.

The city has tendered a relatively large renovation to its McKellar Mall space inside Victoriaville. The renovation would happen over the winter and into spring if it goes ahead.

Work on Marshall's and Urban Planet inside Intercity Mall are imminent, if not underway already.

Red Lion will be moving out of its current space at Cumberland and Park Ave. They released an advertisement indicating they'll be moving 'just up the street'. I haven't confirmed where that'll be yet, but they will need a fairly large space if they plan on occupying a similar sized footprint. My guess is their lease came up... I wonder who wants the main floor space??? On a recent walk around the north core, I noticed a couple other vacant spaces are in the process of being renovated.

Red Lion has purchased the old Crocks and is moving into that location.

The previous Red Lion spot is going to be an expansion to the Chantrelle.

Driving by tonight, does anyone know what is being build at the corner of May street and Durban (across from preferred auto)?

[Dengler Avenue]

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...92758&page=178 #3545

#skoden

#sdoodis

#keyden

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by F. Lionel

It was on the corner of Villa & Cumberland, across Villa from the LCBO.
I'm not too sure of when it closed though... late sixties... sometime in the seventies. It was definitely gone by the eighties.

I definitely don't remember it seeing how I wasn't born yet.