PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown III

[DZH22]

Originally Posted by BobMcKelvin

Someone posted this on the Bike PGH forum. While the similarities are striking, it shouldn’t be THAT hard to find other cities that were laid out on the confluence of two rivers. Johnstown sort of fits the bill although the orientation is off and the rivers don’t have the same curves. Does anyone know of another city that is so similar to Pgh as in this example?



(in Lithuania)

Much closer by, Norwich CT has quite a few similarities with the rivers and the hills, but nothing on this level. That resemblance is uncanny!

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I know we're all holed up in our houses now, but has anyone gotten out and about and seen which construction sites are active again?

I noticed the other day that the UPMC Vision & Rehabilitation tower site has been ongoing (deemed essential, I imagine). This (along with Duquesne's new medical school) hopefully helps spiff up what for decades upon decades has been one of the most perplexingly ugly, dead, and depressing areas of the core.

I've never quite figured out why Uptown has remained so shitty for so long.
Given its prime location and prominent anchors like Duquesne, Mercy, and the arena, one would think it should have begun to develop into a desirable residential/mixed-use zone 10 years ago... but nope. Being hemmed in by the Blvd and Fifth and Forbes doesn't help, and that concrete plant remains a big deterrent, I guess.

Anwyay, I hadn't seen this rendering before, which provides a good idea of the scale... and displays how the new FNB Tower will fit into the skyline -- I think it might partially fill that space in front of the federal building and Westin hotel?

[Austinlee]

^It's taking a while but it is slowly happening. Pittsburgh has had so many prime locations - Northshore; Various riverfronts; The Hill; Uptown; empty lots in Strip District, etc and yet no overall population growth for so long that it is taking a long time for quality urban infill and development to take place. Right now new developments are at least slow and steady which is better than next to nothing in the 90s and early 2000's.

[MarkMyWords]

Originally Posted by pj3000

I noticed the other day that the UPMC Vision & Rehabilitation tower site has been ongoing (deemed essential, I imagine). This (along with Duquesne's new medical school) hopefully helps spiff up what for decades upon decades has been one of the most perplexingly ugly, dead, and depressing areas of the core.

I've never quite figured out why Uptown has remained so shitty for so long.
Given its prime location and prominent anchors like Duquesne, Mercy, and the arena, one would think it should have begun to develop into a desirable residential/mixed-use zone 10 years ago... but nope. Being hemmed in by the Blvd and Fifth and Forbes doesn't help, and that concrete plant remains a big deterrent, I guess.

Anwyay, I hadn't seen this rendering before, which provides a good idea of the scale... and displays how the new FNB Tower will fit into the skyline -- I think it might partially fill that space in front of the federal building and Westin hotel?

I may be wrong, but I am thinking that the new FNB tower would probably be mostly behind the apartment building, just to the left of St. Benedict church. Don't know if it would be tall enough to be seen from this angle.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

^It's taking a while but it is slowly happening. Pittsburgh has had so many prime locations - Northshore; Various riverfronts; The Hill; Uptown; empty lots in Strip District, etc and yet no overall population growth for so long that it is taking a long time for quality urban infill and development to take place. Right now new developments are at least slow and steady which is better than next to nothing in the 90s and early 2000's.

Yeah, I hear you on that. And Uptown has certainly improved in terms of new development, if not street vibrancy (at least in the 90s, there was lots of street life, even with all the out-in-the-open crack dealing and hookers ).

I guess when it comes to Uptown, my mind goes to Lawrenceville’s complete turnaround from the 90s to today... and I think, why did none of that happen in Uptown?

Now I understand Uptown is much smaller, with nowhere near the amount of housing stock. But given what is arguably a more favorable location in terms of proximity to the city’s two dominant employment hubs, I’ve always thought all of those empty surface lots and remaining rowhouse blocks would be more attractive to developers and flippers than they have been.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by MarkMyWords

I may be wrong, but I am thinking that the new FNB tower would probably be mostly behind the apartment building, just to the left of St. Benedict church. Don't know if it would be tall enough to be seen from this angle.

From this angle, I think we’d see most of it... inside ring its location at the NW corner of the tract. Though yes, some might be behind the Washington Plaza apt bldg. But given its proposed height at 400+ ft, it will definitely be tall enough from this viewpoint, actually quite prominent. Should make a nice impact on the skyline.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Yeah, I hear you on that. And Uptown has certainly improved in terms of new development, if not street vibrancy (at least in the 90s, there was lots of street life, even with all the out-in-the-open crack dealing and hookers ).

I guess when it comes to Uptown, my mind goes to Lawrenceville’s complete turnaround from the 90s to today... and I think, why did none of that happen in Uptown?

Now I understand Uptown is much smaller, with nowhere near the amount of housing stock. But given what is arguably a more favorable location in terms of proximity to the city’s two dominant employment hubs, I’ve always thought all of those empty surface lots and remaining rowhouse blocks would be more attractive to developers and flippers than they have been.

I forgot about landbankers; Surely that is one of the top factors as well. Those big lots can always make money as parking unfortunately so without high enough market rents to justify expensive new construction they probably had no reason to want to sell. Lawrenceville has mostly tiny residential lots which must've been a lot easier to acquire even by small time investors.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

I forgot about landbankers; Surely that is one of the top factors as well. Those big lots can always make money as parking unfortunately so without high enough market rents to justify expensive new construction they probably had no reason to want to sell. Lawrenceville has mostly tiny residential lots which must've been a lot easier to acquire even by small time investors.

True. Those are good points. The proximity to downtown is a blessing and a curse in that way. Daily surface parking for downtown and Mercy and Duquesne has obviously been profitable enough to keep things just as they are. And the remaining existing housing stock in Uptown is very rough overall... and tiny at that... so I guess not too attractive for renovators.

[Don't Be That Guy]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

Lawrenceville has mostly tiny residential lots which must've been a lot easier to acquire even by small-time investors.

That's a good take. Related to that, another difference is that Lawrenceville's community organizations were focused on revitalization efforts and quality of life issues which created an environment for those small-time investors and organic, incremental redevelopment. Uptown has gone through numerous large scale planning efforts, the latest of which resulted in a well-meaning, but complicated zoning change that could make revitalization even more cumbersome for small investors and developers.

[Urbanthusiat]

Nice tech get for Pittsburgh.

Zoom to set up R&D Center in Pittsburgh

[themaguffin]

Good.

Pittsburgh Penguins stop Lower Hill development

[Urbanthusiat]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

Good.

Pittsburgh Penguins stop Lower Hill development

What is good about it? Seems incredibly shortsighted.

[themaguffin]

Have you followed this? This is not what they do and they wasted years on this.

They should have never been a part of this.

[pj3000]

The arena site development has been bush league bullshit from he beginning.

I believe I said on here back when they finally decided to tear the Civic Arena down, that I will be a decade older and still nothing will be built on the site...

I was encouraged by FNB announcing its anchor tenancy, but have been cautiously optimistic at best, understanding that the Hill District group (who should have absolutely ZERO say in any of this) would be a continual thorn in the side of progress and that the Penguins (who should never have been given the plum land development rights) are a small market, 4th-level pro sports franchise who bring ZERO development experience to the table.

[mikebarbaro]

Originally Posted by themaguffin

Good.

Pittsburgh Penguins stop Lower Hill development

So I'm confused. Does this mean the FNB Tower is just not happened along with the amphitheater and such? That we're back to square one?

[pj3000]

This sounds like political gamesmanship.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

Nice tech get for Pittsburgh.

Zoom to set up R&D Center in Pittsburgh

This is great news. It really seems like many of the big names in tech almost need to have a presence in Pittsburgh; They require that top-level tech talent and keep opening research offices here.

[bmust71]

Latest article in the PBT makes it sound like the Lower Hill plans are not as dead as other media outlets have advertised:

https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsbur..._news_headline

However, the Penguins are not quoted in this article so who knows

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by pj3000

This sounds like political gamesmanship.

Yeah, seems like a bargaining tactic. Penguins are trying to walk away to exert leverage over Lavelle and his faction.

Don't the Penguins lose development rights if things don't go forward regardless however?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Don't the Penguins lose development rights if things don't go forward regardless however?

In theory. In practice, they keep getting extensions.

I'd love it if the public authorities started actually enforcing that agreement, but I am not holding my breath.