Winnipeg Construction X - Page 87

optimusREIM · #**1721** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 5:11 PM**

I would honestly be ok with anything that doesn't set downtown development back. I have a lot of optimism that they're going to be ambitious and actually help bring significantly more people into downtown but I would be fine with any plan that is responsible and doesn't involve knocking buildings down.

dmacc · #**1722** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 5:14 PM**

Maybe a Grocery store and a water park?

buzzg · #**1723** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 5:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biff

I heard that there will be an announcement on Thursday regarding the Portage Place project. Big project, big money.

If what I know is true, the reactions on here will be "W T F" wow!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biff

I don't think so. Depends on your perspective. On this forum it will probably be applauded. My mouth dropped when I was told what I was told. We will have to see...(my source is 2 "in the know" people). I will have to see it to believe it.

I just did some digging through my people as well Biff.

I was told the plan is to start with two towers first before redeveloping the mall proper as a mix of office and new retail. Was also told the announcement wasn't planned til 2020, so would be awesome if they decide to do it this week!

esquire · #**1724** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 5:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzg

I just did some digging through my people as well Biff.

I was told the plan is to start with two towers first before redeveloping the mall proper as a mix of office and new retail. Was also told the announcement wasn't planned til 2020, so would be awesome if they decide to do it this week!

Not to be too cynical, but I honestly wonder how much hope there is for retail... what could really work in there?

Think about it, Portage Place was built as a practically no-expense spared mall with Cadillac Fairview lining up an A list of tenants, with two of the biggest department stores in the nation at either end of the place. And it still fizzled. What on earth could Starlight do differently this time to make it work?

I am very curious about the size and purpose of these towers, though.

buzzg · #**1725** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 5:47 PM**

I think Portage-facing retail could work very well again if it were to be closed off to the mall. I also think the second floor could still be pretty viable, especially with two towers above, as the Portage skywalk link, even if "sexy" retail doesn't come back.

IMO best option would be to close close off the main hall of the first floor and covert it to office, while reopening the the south side shops to Portage. Try to reopen Promenade-facing units as well. Move the north side first floor shops to the second level vacancies, and the second floor becomes the only proper "mall" portion left. Then convert the third floor to offices and/or amenity space for the towers.

This of course is if my big dream of converting the main floor into a giant indoor transit terminal doesn't work out.

I think that would align well with the TMP getting all busses on Portage.

pspeid · #**1726** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 6:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmacc

Maybe a Grocery store and a water park?

I'm hoping for a UFO landing pad.

Seriously though, a big splashy development announcement about Portage Place would make my year. I'm not one to claim that any one project will make downtown "turn the corner", but there is such a thing as critical mass. A big, positive Portage Place redevelopment plan might not get us there, but would certainly get us a lot closer. I'm looking forward to seeing what is proposed!

GarryEllice · #**1727** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 6:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzg

This of course is if my big dream of converting the main floor into a giant indoor transit terminal doesn't work out.

I think that would align well with the TMP getting all busses on Portage.

Time to put that dream to rest.

The TMP has all the routes running through downtown, not starting or ending there, so there's even less need for a terminal than there currently is (you don't need a terminal if nothing is terminating).

drew · #**1728** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 6:19 PM**

I saw the plan as of late last year.

Its likely changed from now till then, but the plan will almost certainly include some "verticalilty" and a large scale change with respect to the interior layouts and uses.

They will probably as high up on the pad sites as possible within the constraints of building on existing foundations.

dmacc · #**1729** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 6:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspeid

I'm hoping for a UFO landing pad.

Seriously though, a big splashy development announcement about Portage Place would make my year. I'm not one to claim that any one project will make downtown "turn the corner", but there is such a thing as critical mass. A big, positive Portage Place redevelopment plan might not get us there, but would certainly get us a lot closer. I'm looking forward to seeing what is proposed!

Though a Portage Place redevelopment may not be able to achieve critical mass on its own. TNS Tower 1,2,3,4 and 5, Medical Arts Conversion, 300 Main, 185 Smith conversion, 300 Assiniboine, D Condo, Rail side, Glass House and throw in the 290 Colony and the West Broadway Commons, that's 11 Developments and 13 Net New mid/high rises. If that doesn't trigger a critical mass then I don't know what will.

Maybe the combo of Market Lands, Parcel 4, Pumping station and Great West Metals.

I think Downtown Winnipeg is in the middle of bringing online the units to push the core into the critical mass phase we keep talking about. Those additional units will accommodate 3,000 new people.

pspeid · #**1730** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 7:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmacc

Though a Portage Place redevelopment may not be able to achieve critical mass on its own. TNS Tower 1,2,3,4 and 5, Medical Arts Conversion, 300 Main, 185 Smith conversion, 300 Assiniboine, D Condo, Rail side, Glass House and throw in the 290 Colony and the West Broadway Commons, that's 11 Developments and 13 Net New mid/high rises. If that doesn't trigger a critical mass then I don't know what will.

Maybe the combo of Market Lands, Parcel 4, Pumping station and Great West Metals.

I think Downtown Winnipeg is in the middle of bringing online the units to push the core into the critical mass phase we keep talking about. Those additional units will accommodate 3,000 new people.

JUST MY OPINION: I think in terms of the perception of downtown re-development, seeing progress on Portage Place is one of the big "must haves" that many people look for. While I would love to see most of the DOWNTOWN surface lots filled with some kind of construction (even with multi-level parkades), for me if Portage Place is effectively re-developed, and we can get a new building on Main Street (next to 201 Portage) I would be a pretty happy camper. Of course I'd love to see more construction on Graham and a new hotel on Carlton near the convention centre (and, yes, opening P & M). However, fill the gap on Main Street and I'd say we filled enough of the "big" holes downtown to suggest we're "turning the corner".

BAKGUY · #**1731** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 8:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspeid

JUST MY OPINION: I think in terms of the perception of downtown re-development, seeing progress on Portage Place is one of the big "must haves" that many people look for. While I would love to see most of the DOWNTOWN surface lots filled with some kind of construction (even with multi-level parkades), for me if Portage Place is effectively re-developed, and we can get a new building on Main Street (next to 201 Portage) I would be a pretty happy camper. Of course I'd love to see more construction on Graham and a new hotel on Carlton near the convention centre (and, yes, opening P & M). However, fill the gap on Main Street and I'd say we filled enough of the "big" holes downtown to suggest we're "turning the corner".

I have to agree with you.
Yes, critical mass is on the way.
More residents = more stores, eateries etc..
More social services downtown to not help the current situation.
It might take a few more years and then we shall witness a prosperous quadrant of the city and be more like a downtown should be.

bomberjet · #**1732** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 8:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pspeid

JUST MY OPINION: I think in terms of the perception of downtown re-development, seeing progress on Portage Place is one of the big "must haves" that many people look for. While I would love to see most of the DOWNTOWN surface lots filled with some kind of construction (even with multi-level parkades), for me if Portage Place is effectively re-developed, and we can get a new building on Main Street (next to 201 Portage) I would be a pretty happy camper. Of course I'd love to see more construction on Graham and a new hotel on Carlton near the convention centre (and, yes, opening P & M). However, fill the gap on Main Street and I'd say we filled enough of the "big" holes downtown to suggest we're "turning the corner".

There is a new hotel under construction on Carlton across from RBCCC right now.

CoryB · #**1733** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 9:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAKGUY

More residents = more stores, eateries etc..

With the whole shift to online and next day deliveries retail is D E A D. There is no "critical mass" of downtown residents that is going to change that. The same is true for all retail, not just downtown, but others are further from the death level of downtown though. Polo Park and the Kennaston box stores are two other areas that are struggling.

If you think Polo Park isn't, them opening a massive Stitches store inside the mall wasn't even on people's radars as that was so low a likely outcome but its the new reality.

optimusREIM · #**1734** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 9:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoryB

With the whole shift to online and next day deliveries retail is [B}D E A D[/B]. There is no "critical mass" of downtown residents that is going to change that. The same is true for all retail, not just downtown, but others are further from the death level of downtown though. Polo Park and the Kennaston box stores are two other areas that are struggling.

If you think Polo Park isn't, them opening a massive Stitches store inside the mall wasn't even on people's radars as that was so low a likely outcome but its the new reality.

I don't buy the idea that retail is dead. Maybe in some domains but definitely not in others.

I'm not seeing this armageddon you're referring to for many retailers. The ones that die are those that fail to reinvent themselves as time goes on. Online shopping is a big thing but it will never completely displace bricks and mortar. There are enough people who would still shop that way and enough costly infrastructure to prevent a complete shift, not to mention that online doesn't adequately work for many things clothes, fresh produce, etc. If every store went exclusively online tomorrow, there would be a full on revolt

LilZebra · #**1735** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 10:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzg

This of course is if my big dream of converting the main floor into a giant indoor transit terminal doesn't work out.

I think that would align well with the TMP getting all busses on Portage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

Time to put that dream to rest.

The TMP has all the routes running through downtown, not starting or ending there, so there's even less need for a terminal than there currently is (you don't need a terminal if nothing is terminating).

I think what "buzzg" really meant was for a Station inside the mall space, not a terminating terminal as you described. But then again, wasn't Portage Pl. supposed to be a "downtown destination" when first built?

Could be like our own Shinjuku or Shibuya Station one day.

We won't know until Thursday the 19th till the plan is laid out and released.

trueviking · #**1736** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 10:15 PM**

The TMP is just a sketch. Things evolve.

LilZebra · #**1737** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 10:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueviking

View PP images with caution.

The TMP is just a sketch. Things evolve.

Have you previewed the plans?

pspeid · #**1738** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 10:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberjet

There is a new hotel under construction on Carlton across from RBCCC right now.

Anyone have photos?

bomberjet · #**1739** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 10:34 PM**

Check the True North Square thread. Winnipeg Grump posts overhead views every once in a while. They're moving closer to being at grade.

Here's the latest one for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winnipeg Grump

Guys, I've been slacking on this because nothing seemed to change any time I looked but LOOK!
Stuff is happening!

pspeid · #**1740** Posted **Dec 16, 2019, 11:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Check the True North Square thread. Winnipeg Grump posts overhead views every once in a while. They're moving closer to being at grade.

Here's the latest one for you.

Funny I never even thought about this development, even though i've been watching the posts for a while now. I was thinking of the surface parking lot on Carlton between York and Broadway.