CHICAGO | Waterview Tower | 1,047' Official / 1,035' Roof | 89 FLOORS |NEVER BUILT - Page 64

BVictor1 · #**1261** Posted **Jan 18, 2008, 11:50 PM**

01/18/08

kenratboy · #**1262** Posted **Jan 19, 2008, 7:02 AM**

I have to ask, why are the transfer floors so difficult? Is it just the fact everything is changing, utilities, elevators, stairs, etc. are different, etc.? Is it basically a foundation in the sky?

jet cm · #**1263** Posted **Jan 19, 2008, 3:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenratboy

I have to ask, why are the transfer floors so difficult? Is it just the fact everything is changing, utilities, elevators, stairs, etc. are different, etc.? Is it basically a foundation in the sky?

BINGO!

Rocket1 · #**1264** Posted **Jan 19, 2008, 3:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenratboy

I have to ask, why are the transfer floors so difficult? Is it just the fact everything is changing, utilities, elevators, stairs, etc. are different, etc.? Is it basically a foundation in the sky?

I found this article in the Tribune, "How to Build Today's Supertalls" very informative.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entert...5.story?page=1

Waterview, Trump, etc, all use a "core and outrigger" system for structural support. In the transfer floors, massive concrete outriggers tie the core to high strength structural columns at the perimeter.

In the Trump, for instance, one of the transfer floors contains 17-1/2 feet tall and 5-1/2 feet wide walls of concrete that serve as outriggers. As well as belt walls of concrete at the perimeter that are perpendicular to the outriggers.

harryc · #**1265** Posted **Jan 20, 2008, 5:15 PM**

Jan 02

Jan 18
Hamming it up.

Details ( click on photo to enlarge )

Looking up

ZZ-II · #**1266** Posted **Jan 20, 2008, 7:56 PM**

great update harry, the tower is rising well now

Chicago2020 · #**1267** Posted **Jan 21, 2008, 1:04 AM**

secorab/Flickr

Knightwing · #**1268** Posted **Jan 21, 2008, 2:01 AM**

^Why is there steam coming from the river?

Nowhereman1280 · #**1269** Posted **Jan 21, 2008, 3:22 AM**

Because it is below zero outside. Have you ever seen what happens when a liquid is much warmer than the air around it? It evaporates in the form of steam/visible water vapor.

All exposed water in the city is doing that right now, it was really cool by the lake the other day since the steam was just billowing off of it. Now the Lake has ice on it for a good distance out from shore so we can't see the steam anymore...

Knightwing · #**1270** Posted **Jan 21, 2008, 3:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

Because it is below zero outside. Have you ever seen what happens when a liquid is much warmer than the air around it? It evaporates in the form of steam/visible water vapor.

All exposed water in the city is doing that right now, it was really cool by the lake the other day since the steam was just billowing off of it. Now the Lake has ice on it for a good distance out from shore so we can't see the steam anymore...

I guess I was thinking that the river temp was lower than it actually is. That says something about how chilly it is.

SolarWind · #**1271** Posted **Jan 21, 2008, 6:29 AM**

January 18, 2008

aaron38 · #**1272** Posted **Jan 21, 2008, 4:17 PM**

Nice closeups of the core.
But I don't understand the imbalance of the columns. You would think the west side would be just as massive as the north side...

chi-arch · #**1273** Posted **Jan 21, 2008, 4:35 PM**

Those North side columns have a big job to do, especially at the transfer floor and yes they are quite massive.

gttx · #**1274** Posted **Jan 21, 2008, 8:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenratboy

I have to ask, why are the transfer floors so difficult? Is it just the fact everything is changing, utilities, elevators, stairs, etc. are different, etc.? Is it basically a foundation in the sky?

Exactly. Instead of forces being transfered straight down the tower and into the bedrock via columns, they essentially have to be "rerouted" to a different column grid by way of a transfer floor. One way to think of it is exactly what you said: a foundation of a building sitting on top of another building. In the case of Trump, there are a bunch of different buildings stacked on top of each other. Each time, though, the forces need to be transfered from structural columns in one section to those in the next, again by way of a transfer floor. The presence of utilities, stairs, and elevators, as you suggest, make an already-complicated situation even more complicated.

There are many different reasons why engineers use transfer floors in their design: one of them, as Rocket1 mentioned, is to tie peripheral outrigger systems to the concrete core at specific points in the building. They normally use this on exceptionally tall buildings, especially when, as in Chicago, they will experience considerable lateral loads. Another reason might be that the structure changes uses midway up, going from an office building to condos, for example, and necessitating a change in the position of columns on each floor.

Knightwing · #**1275** Posted **Jan 21, 2008, 10:22 PM**

^Excellent explanation.

BVictor1 · #**1276** Posted **Jan 22, 2008, 12:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightwing

I guess I was thinking that the river temp was lower than it actually is. That says something about how chilly it is.

Chilly my ass, it's colder than a mutha' fucka...

Quote:

Those North side columns have a big job to do, especially at the transfer floor and yes they are quite massive.

The north columns are 7' x 7'. At least at the base. You can notice the slight taper after the parking floors.

Dr. Taco · #**1277** Posted **Jan 22, 2008, 2:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolarWind

January 18, 2008

I'm curious about that space up there on the southwest corner of the building...

aaron38 · #**1278** Posted **Jan 22, 2008, 3:05 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by chi-arch

Those North side columns have a big job to do, especially at the transfer floor and yes they are quite massive.

Yes, what I don't understand is the absense of equally massive columns on the west side, where there should be an equal load.

And that empty space is mechanical space in an area where there's no view. Since they didn't have a use for the space, they didn't build any floors there.

BVictor1 · #**1279** Posted **Jan 22, 2008, 4:05 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstush04

I'm curious about that space up there on the southwest corner of the building...

There will be several 3-story voids. They used that FAR and pushed the tower taller. If ever in the future the city allows or changes the FAR, that floor space could be filled in

Dr. Taco · #**1280** Posted **Jan 22, 2008, 4:44 AM**

^ ok, thats cool. thanks. Thats a pretty good idea (for meeting the FAR), but, aside from hoping for the best in the future, what would they use the space for? are they going to make it nice and usable, or is it more a storage type area. cuz if its usable, i suppose they could do some cool things with that much ceiling height flexibility. i dunno