Surrey Langley Skytrain - Expo Line Extension | Proposed

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

In early 2016, the City of Surrey altered the cost of the project from $2.14 billion to $2.6 billion.

That was 2 years ago...

What are the costs now?

Once the shovels hit the ground?

Phase 2 won't be approved until phase 1 is complete. That is years away. Governments change... let's see what happens...

It’ll be a matter of time before the Province formally funds the project. With all of last years hype, construction would’ve started by now, but nope, still nothing. God forbid that the Province picks LRT on Fraser Hwy before Election Day.

They’ll probably pull off like what the B.C. Liberals did with the Evergreen Line, knowing the potential cost overruns.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Waders]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

In early 2016, the City of Surrey altered the cost of the project from $2.14 billion to $2.6 billion.

That was 2 years ago...

What are the costs now?

Probably over $3.0 billion.

[Firebrand]

Yeesh! The Evergreen Extension was half that cost.

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

A lot less potential for cost overruns when you aren't tunneling. Building tunnels always brings in a level of risk because you can never be 100% sure of the soil until you are boring.

The Langley Extension is not going to be tunneled; it will be elevated all the way to Langley Centre, so it’s less prone to budget creep, unlike the Evergreen.

[Waders]

In early 2016, the City of Surrey revised the cost of the project from $2.14 billion to $2.6 billion.

TransLink CFO Cathy McLay said at the time costs had risen mostly thanks to the price of real estate.

Source

The land value increase in the last 2 years was even bigger, so...

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

It doesn't just stop there. I made a response to that guy in the comments, and that discussion ends to the point where I stopped bothering because he would repeat the same thing.

The thing that I noticed among LRT supporters is that they willfully ignore problems like the odd S-shaped design along 102nd Ave, and they constantly bash on SkyTrain despite the evidence to the contrary. Talking to them is like talking to flat-earthers: they always fabricate, spread, and repeat their lies that the round Earth is a conspiracy even though a simple google search for facts contradicts their beliefs. Of course, LRT supporters don't go to the extremes (except for zweisystem), but the parallelism is still there.

This is why I feel every major capital transportation infrastructure project. Whether it be for transit or vehicles. Should be fully designed, built, and paid for my the provincial and federal (if they desire) governments.

If a city want to build their own transportation project, then that city should pay for it fully with their own citizen's money.

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by Waders

The land value increase in the last 2 years was even bigger, so...

Isn’t it due to the high land acquisition the LRT requires, since it’s in the middle of busy arterials? SkyTrain doesn’t require that much land acquisition due to the relatively small space the pilllars will require. Most of the construction happens on the guideway; traffic on the ground is unaffected.

Then again, grade-separated projects will cost more due to their nature (not that it’s saying much).

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by cabotp

This is why I feel every major capital transportation infrastructure project. Whether it be for transit or vehicles. Should be fully designed, built, and paid for my the provincial and federal (if they desire) governments.

If a city want to build their own transportation project, then that city should pay for it fully with their own citizen's money.

It should be funded by a percentage of what areas benefit from it. Seeing as the city of surrey is getting the most benefit, they should pay the most.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Point is, costs tend to go up, and any talk of one project having more budget creep than another is mostly full of it.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

It should be funded by a percentage of what areas benefit from it. Seeing as the city of surrey is getting the most benefit, they should pay the most.

Then nothing would EVER get built. We don't have enough money pooled together as one big city, what makes you think several little ones would have any more?

[Waders]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

Isn’t it due to the high land acquisition the LRT requires, since it’s in the middle of busy arterials? SkyTrain doesn’t require that much land acquisition due to the relatively small space the pilllars will require. Most of the construction happens on the guideway; traffic on the ground is unaffected.

Then again, grade-separated projects will cost more due to their nature (not that it’s saying much).

How much land needs to be acquired depends on the design. Sometimes the rail/guideway alignment can be adjusted to minimize the land acquisition cost.

If I remember correctly, the Evergreen line extension project also had to acquire some land to allow the pillar and guideway to be built.

The land value increase also affects the cost for the Millennium Line Broadway Extension Project as station entrance and ventilation duct still occupy space at road surface.

[Firebrand]

The Township of Langley is unwilling to go for SkyTrain due to some stupid compromise by Surrey, so they decided to go for LRT because it’s cheap (according to them). They want the project to move on ASAP. The City of Langley is the one going for SkyTrain. I don’t know how the two Langleys will come to a consensus to fund which mode of tech along Fraser.

When’s the next Mayors’ Council meeting?

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Aroundtheworld]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Frankly Langley doesn't have the density to support Skytrain and maybe not even Light Rail. Better Bus service would service the Langleys better.

There was a study done a while back that showed the case for rapid transit on the Fraser Highway to Langley was better than the current LRT route proposed in Surrey. Langley may not have the residential density, but it definitely has a far greater employment density.

Let's be honest, all of the South of Fraser projects are being built to spur development and encourage new transit use as opposed to serving existing demand. I think the former is a justifiable reason for building rapid transit. But you can't use that argument to justify one and then use the other argument to invalidate the other.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

The employment density around Fraser Highway to Langley City is not really significant at all on a regional level, KGB to Newton is far better.

But it's still growing and a lot of people are moving there. We should build for the future instead of making up for our past shortcomings. It's time for a revolution. Build something that will be at capacity when it needs to be replaced.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

The Township of Langley is unwilling to go for SkyTrain due to some stupid compromise by Surrey, so they decided to go for LRT because it’s cheap (according to them). They want the project to move on ASAP. The City of Langley is the one going for SkyTrain. I don’t know how the two Langleys will come to a consensus to fund which mode of tech along Fraser.

When’s the next Mayors’ Council meeting?

Well, the buck and decision of what technology will be used stops at the government doorstep. Who knows what government will be in power when this 3rd phase actually gets built. I say decades from now.

If the government were enthusiastic about phase 2, the shovels would be in the ground already.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

The Governments "enthusiasm" has little to do with it. Skytrain to Langley really just is not a high priority compared to Patullo etc.

Then why does Hepner gets more enthusiasm on her LRT than the Broadway Extension? By that logic, that extension is a higher priority than the Surrey LRT.

[Cypherus]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

The Governments "enthusiasm" has little to do with it. Skytrain to Langley really just is not a high priority compared to Patullo etc.

How do you know? There are a lot of people driving down the Fraser Hwy corridor from Langley to Central City. Just drive down Fraser Hwy on any given weekday morning between 6 am to 8 am and you would see what I mean.

The same sentiment was shared when the original Port Mann Bridge was built to connect south of the Fraser to Metro Vancouver. Then they ended up having to build a new bridge due to population growth. In essence, if mass transportation proposal plans were always based on serving existing clientele and population, nothing would ever be built because studies would assume low ridership. In reality, mass transportation has always been the catalyst for density growth and service demand to levels where people would leave their cars at home.