WINNIPEG | Portage Place Redevelopment

[pspeid]

Who can tell at this point if this will be a good or bad deal for the city?

On the one hand the city certainly looks like it pressed the panic button to keep the deal alive. On the other hand, it's not like they wrote a cheque to Harold Hill to provide the town with band instruments and uniforms, no questions asked. The deal is still contingent on whether or not the Feds pony up the remaining money (what is it at this point, about $12 million?), and whether the project will have the private backing for the rest of the project.

Yes I am very concerned about a big project getting 1/2 or 1/4 done and the city being on the hook to just finish something that turns out to be kind of half-assed.I guess it's going to depend on how the city tries to protect itself if a final agreement is ready to me signed.

[Biff]

The good part is that most of the funds are tax related, meaning if it doesn't get built, Starlight doesn't realize the savings. I think Starlight wanted $60m cash which I would not have been in support of. It remains to be seen if Starlight will proceed without the upfront cash they are asking for.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by pspeid

Who can tell at this point if this will be a good or bad deal for the city?

On the one hand the city certainly looks like it pressed the panic button to keep the deal alive. On the other hand, it's not like they wrote a cheque to Harold Hill to provide the town with band instruments and uniforms, no questions asked. The deal is still contingent on whether or not the Feds pony up the remaining money (what is it at this point, about $12 million?), and whether the project will have the private backing for the rest of the project.

Yes I am very concerned about a big project getting 1/2 or 1/4 done and the city being on the hook to just finish something that turns out to be kind of half-assed.I guess it's going to depend on how the city tries to protect itself if a final agreement is ready to me signed.

Hmmm, where have I seen that observation before?

*remembers about 360 Main and Trizec*

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by The Jabroni

Hmmm, where have I seen that observation before?

*remembers about 360 Main and Trizec*

Seems to happen a lot, doesn't it?

It doesn't take much searching to find this sort of thing happening everywhere; developers making great promises and not delivering. Here's one example:

https://wamu.org/story/13/05/22/empt..._dont_deliver/

Don't get me wrong; I'm very "pro-development" for the city, I'm just not necessarily "pro-developer". Screwing over local governments to get what they want is a very old story for a number of developers, and not one that is unique to Winnipeg by a long shot.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Biff

The good part is that most of the funds are tax related, meaning if it doesn't get built, Starlight doesn't realize the savings. I think Starlight wanted $60m cash which I would not have been in support of. It remains to be seen if Starlight will proceed without the upfront cash they are asking for.

Tax related = someone else has to pay more

Just more pie in the sky BS that the very next project will cure all of downtown Winnipeg’s problems. The largest growing segment of our population which is new Canadians don’t want to live downtown, go downtown on a weekend or any night other than when the Jets play and tell me who in their right mind would want to live there!

If there is one thing that comes out of the COVID-19 shutdown, it is that living near work is unnecessary when work from home can be done from anywhere which will be the new trend.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by The Jabroni

Hmmm, where have I seen that observation before?

*remembers about 360 Main and Trizec*

Bang on. What's old is new again.

Let's write to Santa and ask him to give a copy of this book to every member of City Council so they can see how this plays out:

[Biff]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Tax related = someone else has to pay more

My meaning being that they can’t just slap up a paint job, take $60m in cash and run. Their savings come after the project is built over numerous years.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Biff

My meaning being that they can’t just slap up a paint job, take $60m in cash and run. Their savings come after the project is built over numerous years.

If wishes were horses and all the stars align, one thing I’ve learned is that there are no guarantees in life or anything else, Portage Place, the new arena etc. and a myriad of other things we’re all going to be the panacea to fix Winnipeg’s downtown!

$60 million in tax dollars is a gamble, since it’s not actually their money politicians rarely give a shit where it goes!

[trueviking]

Have they said what they are going to do with the 300,000 square feet of space in the mall? I’m really interested to know what the actual plan is, other than the housing towers. It’s a huge building. They must have proposed a use for the building to the governments. Did I miss that? Is it still a mall?

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Have they said what they are going to do with the 300,000 square feet of space in the mall? I’m really interested to know what the actual plan is, other than the housing towers. It’s a huge building. They must have proposed a use for the building to the governments. Did I miss that? Is it still a mall?

I believe the mall is being cut up into various office spaces, ground level was to be retail, then the additional towers for residential. But beyond that I don't think they have ever given out specific plans... just a broad "this will happen" kinda thing.

Which seems normal for any outside developer showing up to "save" Winnipeg. See: Sky City

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Have they said what they are going to do with the 300,000 square feet of space in the mall? I’m really interested to know what the actual plan is, other than the housing towers. It’s a huge building. They must have proposed a use for the building to the governments. Did I miss that? Is it still a mall?

Well part of the mall is dissected and surgically removed to allow for a roadway, meeting place (bum hangout) and such. Don’t forget the 10K sq. feet of promised public space, that’s gotta be worth $60M at least!

Actually the $60 M could have built two or three really nice community centres for all people of all ages to use!

[Wpg_Guy]

They did say in their most recent presentation to city call that a space for prairie theatre exchange would be incorporated, beyond that, not much else.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

They did say in their most recent presentation to city call that a space for prairie theatre exchange would be incorporated, beyond that, not much else.

Looking at the initial renderings it appears the height of the current building (except for the residential towers) is to be reduced. Perhaps the plan is to reduce the size of the office/retail area there now? Assuming retailers like Staples and Shoppers Drug Mart will still want a presence, they may be just kind of sussing out who, of the remaining tenants, will still want space there. Just speculation, of course.

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Tax related = someone else has to pay more

Just more pie in the sky BS that the very next project will cure all of downtown Winnipeg’s problems. The largest growing segment of our population which is new Canadians don’t want to live downtown, go downtown on a weekend or any night other than when the Jets play and tell me who in their right mind would want to live there!

If there is one thing that comes out of the COVID-19 shutdown, it is that living near work is unnecessary when work from home can be done from anywhere which will be the new trend.

Working @ home for me is not an option & never will be.
That working @ home option is not 99% so that is annoying to hear this always.
I know that I certainly am not the only freak who is in this position.
I was downtown last night and plenty of people even at 1:30 am. Be aware of your surroundings is always sensible advice.

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Tax related = someone else has to pay more

Just more pie in the sky BS that the very next project will cure all of downtown Winnipeg’s problems. The largest growing segment of our population which is new Canadians don’t want to live downtown, go downtown on a weekend or any night other than when the Jets play and tell me who in their right mind would want to live there!

If there is one thing that comes out of the COVID-19 shutdown, it is that living near work is unnecessary when work from home can be done from anywhere which will be the new trend.

Not everybody is scared of poor people like your are.

[pspeid]

Interesting article from The Sun dated July 28:

https://winnipegsun.com/news/local-n...opment-forward

Of course this could just be PR from Starlight Investments, but if it's even half-way accurate about the number of agencies that have a voice in the matter it is not really surprising that negotiations seem so convoluted.

[buzzg]

Check out report 9, schedule B: http://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/DMIS/View...onId=&InitUrl=

Details some of the (obviously initial, loose) plans Starlight has for parts of PP that interact with the street. All sounds good to me.

[Gravity Wins]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Check out report 9, schedule B: http://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/DMIS/View...onId=&InitUrl=

Details some of the (obviously initial, loose) plans Starlight has for parts of PP that interact with the street. All sounds good to me.

I've never read any bits of a city council meeting before, but had to laugh out loud when I saw that link refer to the mayor as "His Worship Mayor Bowman"... is that really necessary in this day and age? Does Bowman get to wear a crown while he's there, too?

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Check out report 9, schedule B: http://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/DMIS/View...onId=&InitUrl=

Details some of the (obviously initial, loose) plans Starlight has for parts of PP that interact with the street. All sounds good to me.

I guess the question now is how the proposal will sound to the feds when they decide whether to pony up the past $20 million they are being asked for. The proposal seems to push the right buttons, but who can tell?

[ywgwalk]

Originally Posted by Gravity Wins

Does Bowman get to wear a crown while he's there, too?

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