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  #18821  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2014, 9:44 AM
ProphetM ProphetM is offline
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First off, hats off to Lorendoc, who identified the same spot while I was still busy formulating my own post about it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HossC View Post
I think the apartment building above the word "Ladies" is the Hacienda Arms aka. Coronet Apartments/Piazza del Sol on Sunset Boulevard. That dates the photo to after 1927.

Although the Hacienda Arms building is not visible in the picture below, the view of the mountains is very similar to the one above. It was taken on Croft Avenue looking north toward Santa Monica Boulevard in 1927.


USC Digital Library

Here's part of a 1931 aerial looking northeast over Santa Monica Boulevard. The Hacienda Arms is near the top left, and the Bekins Storage building from the picture above is just right of center. Going by the angle of the mountains in the previous picture, my guess is that the shoe store and cleaners were a little east of the Bekins building on Santa Monica Boulevard.


USC Digital Library
Great sleuthing! You are correct. The photo was taken just one block east of the Bekins building. It looks north on Orlando to Santa Monica Blvd, and the buildings in the photo are still there. Here is the old photo that I have marked to demonstrate:


ebay/marked by me

The distinctive roofline in the circle is still there today on what I will call building 1. The buildings I have marked as 2 and 3 are also there, but are disguised - an exterior remodel has integrated buildings 2 and 3 as well as the leftmost segment of building 1. Here is today's street view, with the same roofline feature circled and buildings 2 and 3 marked again:


Google Street View

Although buildings 2 and 3 (and the left end of building 1) appear to have been replaced, an aerial view tells a different story. I flipped around the Google Maps view to look southbound, and the back side of the modern roofline is visible:


Google Maps

Here on the roof it becomes very clear that the block is still divided into 3 buildings just like the old photo. The stepped roofline of building 2 is still visible behind the remodel, as is the old roofline of building 3 which drops down at both sides.
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  #18822  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2014, 11:59 AM
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HossC HossC is offline
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Thanks to my fellow collaborators for nailing the Orlando Avenue location. This one was a real joint effort. ProphetM, I'm kicking myself for not checking the reverse angle on the aerial view to find those hidden roof details, but I'll get over it . Great work by everyone involved.


--------------------


Quote:
Originally Posted by FredH View Post
The caption says: Old retaining walls and stairs that used to lead up to the Moorcliff apartment building, 121 South Hill Street, on Bunker Hill.


http://cdm16003.contentdm.oclc.org/c...id/6281/rec/24

Have we seen the Moorcliff Apartments before? I don't recall.
We have seen the Moore Cliff Apartments before:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
below: USC caption "Looking north on Hill Street from 2nd Street, ca. 1932"
The 4 story building in the center of the photo is the Moore Cliff Apartments.


usc digital archive

Can anyone tell me what the sign in the middle of Hill Street is? It looks as if lanterns are hanging on each side of the sign.
Perhaps it's nothing more than "Open Manhole".

Also notice the man on crutches getting ready to board the approaching streetcar.

below: Here is another photo of the Moore Cliff from LAPL.


lapl
Here's a close-up from the top picture. BTW. the sign in the middle of Hill Street just says "Danger Excavation".


Detail of photo at USC Digital Library

A couple a pictures from other angles:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post

usc

The steps you see on the right side of Hill Street lead to the Moore Cliff Apartments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsjansen View Post
looking west across broadway at the moore cliff hotel


Source: LAPL
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  #18823  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2014, 1:29 PM
BifRayRock BifRayRock is offline
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Pinpointing the intersection was nicely done.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzilla View Post
Tara's next-door neighbor at 1355 N. Laurel is quite interesting too. Villa D’Este or the Court of the Fountains was mentioned before, but I can't recall if it received much coverage: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=5161907&postcount=2838

http://files.apts247.com/files/000/0...s/dsc_4223.jpg




8254 Fountain Ave is another striking example of the royal French -Normandy motif. Guessing Fountain could have served as moat. (Searching for a phantom photo on USCDigital) Will post if located.


Could have sworn there was more coverage of the Court of the Fountains.


http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...Y127E816CT.jpg


http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...24X3JEV2JF.jpg


http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...EEL51EIH6I.jpg

http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...FRKL12B39M.jpg


http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...XMPX1B33DI.jpg

http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...8TBA2GFS7F.jpg


http://photos2.zillow.com/p_d/ISt43y...1000000000.jpg

http://photos2.zillow.com/p_d/IS-fkrfm9n9n80t.jpg






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  #18824  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2014, 3:50 PM
Retired_in_Texas Retired_in_Texas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorendoc View Post
With help from UnihiKid, HossC, and Earl B, car-identifier first class, I think we can be confident that the picture was taken looking north on Orlando towards Santa Monica Blvd. in West Hollywood about 1941.

First, the identification of the now Piazza del Sol up on Sunset (which is blocked by a higher structure on the south side of Sunset today) can be confirmed by looking at the following pair:



and



Since the cars look like they're from about 1940, I looked at the closest LA City Directory which was 1942 in search of cleaners. I found Joseph Markowitz cleaning clothes at 8407 Santa Monica Boulevard.

Referring to the following Sanborn excerpt (from 10 years later - the shoe/clothing store seems to have gone out of business), we can see how Orlando dead-ends onto Santa Monica, referencing the street numbers on the north side of Santa Monica Boulevard:



The shoe/clothing store is now shown as a "furnishing" store (or "furniture" store).

One of the best things about this thread is how people with different strengths and interests collaborate to solve these little mysteries that e_r strews around.
I'll be accused of pointless Nit-Picking on this, but the Sedan Delivery vehicle in the "mystery" photo is a 1938-39 Ford. Tip off is Chevy's would have had bolted on teardrop headlight buckets and there would have been an indented area (on purpose) along the sides of the cargo area as some models had glass in that area. Fords had no indented area though some of their models had glass along the cargo area.
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  #18825  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2014, 4:12 PM
Earl Boebert Earl Boebert is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired_in_Texas View Post
I'll be accused of pointless Nit-Picking on this, but the Sedan Delivery vehicle in the "mystery" photo is a 1938-39 Ford. Tip off is Chevy's would have had bolted on teardrop headlight buckets and there would have been an indented area (on purpose) along the sides of the cargo area as some models had glass in that area. Fords had no indented area though some of their models had glass along the cargo area.
Well done, I stand corrected :-)

Cheers,

Earl
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  #18826  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2014, 10:45 PM
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Graybeard Graybeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HossC View Post
Thanks to my fellow collaborators for nailing the Orlando Avenue location. This one was a real joint effort. ProphetM, I'm kicking myself for not checking the reverse angle on the aerial view to find those hidden roof details, but I'll get over it . Great work by everyone involved.


--------------------
Indeed. Great piece of detective work!

http://imagejournal.org
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  #18827  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2014, 11:37 PM
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HossC HossC is offline
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While looking for pictures of the elusive shoe store and cleaners on Santa Monica Boulevard yesterday, I stumbled across this picture of the Santa Monica Freeway under construction - I don't think we've seen it before. Just left of the construction zone, about halfway down, is Dr. Kurtz's house on Toberman Street. On the right, just above the Bob Hope Patriotic Hall, is the Young Apartment building.


USC Digital Library

Looking a little closer, we can see the subjects of a few more posts. Near the "Weber" sign at the top, left, and partly hidden by a tree, is the Otsego Apartment building. I posted a picture of the unfinished sections of road across the Harbor Freeway in post #17868. The large building near the bottom is the Odd Fellow Temple on Oak Street. I think we can even see the rooftop radio station that e_r mentioned in post #16718. The dark mound above the Odd Fellow Temple marks the future home of the CHP building.


Detail of photo above.

A couple of previous posts with pictures of the Santa Monica Freeway being built:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=3026

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=13772
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  #18828  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2014, 12:21 AM
Tetsu Tetsu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HossC View Post
What a great view. In this photo is another place that really interests me, the Forthmann House which once stood at 629 W. 18th Street, in the pic just to the left of the Patriotic Hall I believe. Thankfully it was moved to Hoover Street near the USC campus and restored. I'm really interested in seeing more photos of it in its original location, if they exist. Here it is today:

Wikipedia
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  #18829  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2014, 1:02 AM
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Here you go. The description is as follows:

Photograph of an exterior view of John A. Forthmann, Sr.'s home at Eighteenth Street and Figueroa Street in Los Angeles, ca.1900. Horace Forthmann, Johan A. Forthmann, Sr., and W. B. Bergin are in a horse-drawn buggy in the foreground at left, while Anne M. Forthmann and Nora Forthmann are seated on the porch railing. The view of the large, two-story Victorian house is obscured by large trees, including a palm tree in the foreground at right.; Presented to collection by Los Angeles Soap Company, Andrew K. Forthmann, chairman of the board and chief executive officer, December 5, 1975. Picture file card reads: "1900, John A. Forthmann, Sr. home, 18th and Figueroa. In buggy: Horace Forthmann, John A. Forthmann, Sr., and W.B. Bergin. On porch: Anne M. Forthmann and Nora Forthmann".


USC Digital Library

Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
The Los Angeles Soap Company on 1st Street in 1884.
You can see the name of the company above the entryway on the right.


usc
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  #18830  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2014, 1:59 AM
Retired_in_Texas Retired_in_Texas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HossC View Post

Okay E.R. have you any info on the nature of this building's original tenants? I cannot clearly make out the first of the two names at the center of the building. One is obviously "Bergin" the first has the first couple of characters in a shadow and hard to make out.

I'm assuming the building had other usages before Los Angeles Soap Co. as they probably had no use for display windows as we see.
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  #18831  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2014, 2:36 AM
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It says "Forthmann & Bergin" (aka. the owners of the Los Angeles Soap Company). The USC description for the photo above reads:

Photograph of the Los Angeles Soap Company building, 1st Street, 1884. The stately, two-story brick building can be seen, at center. Seven men can be seen standing outside of the building. Three young boys can also be seen in the left foreground, sitting together on the sidewalk in front of the building. A portion of a church can be seen to the left of the building, and a note on the back of the photograph reads as follows: "Old Grace Methodist Episcopal Church on far left". Legible signs on the building include the following: "Forthmann and Bergin", "Los Angeles Soap Co.", and "Los Angeles Lith Co.".


Detail of photo at USC Digital Library
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  #18832  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2014, 2:52 AM
Lorendoc Lorendoc is offline
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The roof-line observations were awesome, ProphetM. I did not think it very likely those buildings had survived 75 years but they did.

Last edited by Lorendoc; Jan 13, 2014 at 3:14 AM.
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  #18833  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2014, 3:02 AM
Lorendoc Lorendoc is offline
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Los Angeles Soap Company

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired_in_Texas View Post
Okay E.R. have you any info on the nature of this building's original tenants? I cannot clearly make out the first of the two names at the center of the building. One is obviously "Bergin" the first has the first couple of characters in a shadow and hard to make out.
ha, a taste of my own medicine. I did not see HossC's post just above this one.

The first name is Forthmann. In the 1909 city directory, the Los Angeles Soap company was at 633 E. 1st St. (today a parking lot). J. A. Forthmann was the president, J.J. Bergin was VP/sec and C.B. Bergin was assistant sec.
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  #18834  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2014, 3:47 AM
Retired_in_Texas Retired_in_Texas is offline
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More interesting stuff on Los Angeles Soap company



Los Angeles Soap Company personnel, including John A. Forthmann Senior, Horace Forthmann, and J.J. Bergin, 1874
Description Group portrait of Los Angeles Soap Company personnel, including John A. Forthmann Senior, Horace Forthmann, and J.J. Bergin, 1874. Twenty men can be seen standing in three rows next to boxes which read "Water Queen Soap", on their sides, and feature an artist's rendition of a mermaid. Mr. John A. Forthmann Senior, Horace Forthmann, and J.J. Bergin can be seen in the bottom row, at far right.
Subject Forthmann Senior, John A.; Forthmann, Horace; Bergin, J. J.

http://cdm15799.contentdm.oclc.org/c...oll65/id/12777

There were still 66 employees - down from at least 500 - when the company folded. Thirteen were retained to shut things down. Six were laid off on Jan. 29, 1988, and six more on Feb. 15. The last employee of the Los Angeles Soap Co. was a janitor who stayed until June 17, 1988, just about 128 years after John Forthmann had become its first. (from the below link)

Read most interesting story at:

http://www.ladowntownnews.com/news/a...d9a5f915c.html
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  #18835  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2014, 4:55 AM
Lorendoc Lorendoc is offline
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Orlando & Santa Monica

A last footnote on e_r's Orlando/Santa Monica Boulevard photo. Today, the eastern part of the shoes/cleaner building (just out of view) is occupied by Hugo's Restaurant. I've eaten there, it's good. Their web site says:
Once upon a time, when anyone first walked in the front door of Hugo's, they found it was a butcher shop with an actual butcher named Hugo. In addition to the butcher's, the building in West Hollywood, which sits on an extension of Route 66 and houses the restaurant as it is now, was also a grocery, a dry cleaners and a tailor shop, all in a row. Terry, being the compassionate man he was, kept the name in deference to Hugo's widow when he took the business over.

Last edited by Lorendoc; Jan 13, 2014 at 10:53 PM.
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  #18836  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2014, 4:56 AM
Tetsu Tetsu is offline
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Forthmann House & LA Soap Company

HossC, thanks so much! That's actually the one photo I have seen of the house at its original location, but I've never seen it in such high res.

Retired_in_Texas, that was a great read on the LA Soap Co., thanks.

And one more, somewhat odd, note. The carriage house from the original Forthmann property was moved to 812 E. Edgeware Rd. in Angelino Heights. Apparently it's been sitting on these extra high stilts for a while now, waiting to have a new first floor constructed under it.

Big Orange Landmarks
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  #18837  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2014, 3:33 PM
Retired_in_Texas Retired_in_Texas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetsu View Post
HossC, thanks so much! That's actually the one photo I have seen of the house at its original location, but I've never seen it in such high res.

Retired_in_Texas, that was a great read on the LA Soap Co., thanks.

And one more, somewhat odd, note. The carriage house from the original Forthmann property was moved to 812 E. Edgeware Rd. in Angelino Heights. Apparently it's been sitting on these extra high stilts for a while now, waiting to have a new first floor constructed under it.

Big Orange Landmarks
TETSU quite a story about the Forthman property and the fact the founder of the L.A. Soap company rode to work in a horse drawn carriage up until the time he died. A bit eccentric?

It would be interesting to see what exact 15 acres of the downtown L.A. area the buildings of the L.A. Soap company occupied until its closing in 1988.

I can't resist commenting for the benefit of old building preservationist about the cost of renovation of aging buildings to code being what actually put the company under, with perhaps a bit of foggy headed management not realizing it would have been to the company's benefit to simply sell the real estate and build a new facility elsewhere. Boneheaded thinking all the way around cost L.A. an employer and the existence of a business that was around the turn of the 20th Century among the city's larger employers.

If one is a real history nut, as I tend to be at times, there is more quite interesting coverage of Bergin and the Soap company. I found it interesting that his nephew that succeeded him with the company was from an East Texas town that was about 20 miles from where I grew up and was home to Ladybird Johnson to the time she married LBJ. Checkout A History of California and an Extended History of Los Angeles and Environs ..., Volume 3
By James Miller Guinn
. It's online in google books.

Last edited by Retired_in_Texas; Jan 13, 2014 at 4:01 PM.
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  #18838  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2014, 12:39 AM
Johnland Johnland is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProphetM View Post
First off, hats off to Lorendoc, who identified the same spot while I was still busy formulating my own post about it!



Great sleuthing! You are correct. The photo was taken just one block east of the Bekins building. It looks north on Orlando to Santa Monica Blvd, and the buildings in the photo are still there. Here is the old photo that I have marked to demonstrate:


ebay/marked by me

The distinctive roofline in the circle is still there today on what I will call building 1. The buildings I have marked as 2 and 3 are also there, but are disguised - an exterior remodel has integrated buildings 2 and 3 as well as the leftmost segment of building 1. Here is today's street view, with the same roofline feature circled and buildings 2 and 3 marked again:


Google Street View

Although buildings 2 and 3 (and the left end of building 1) appear to have been replaced, an aerial view tells a different story. I flipped around the Google Maps view to look southbound, and the back side of the modern roofline is visible:


Google Maps

Here on the roof it becomes very clear that the block is still divided into 3 buildings just like the old photo. The stepped roofline of building 2 is still visible behind the remodel, as is the old roofline of building 3 which drops down at both sides.
Using Bing maps aerial view, you can see that the Bekins Bldg. still stands at the ne corner of Santa Monica and Oliver just to the end of the row shown above. It is now covered in plain white exterior of some sort, but the shape and windows are definitely the Bekins Bldg.
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  #18839  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2014, 1:29 AM
Martin Pal Martin Pal is offline
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Villa D'Este aka Court of the Fountains

Quote:
Originally Posted by BifRayRock View Post
Could have sworn there was more coverage of the Court of the Fountains.

http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...Y127E816CT.jpg

http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...EEL51EIH6I.jpg
Villa D'Este, aka Court of the Fountains, was used in the film UNDER THE YUM YUM TREE from 1963 which featured, among many: Jack Lemmon, Carol Lynley, Jim Hutton, Dean Jones, Imogene Coca, Bill Bixby, Sid Caesar and Paul Lynde.

Here's a screencap of Jim Hutton in the area shown in the top photo above.



The street and exterior were only used in the film:



The interior courtyard and apartments were all built on a soundstage.



Screencaps above are from this site, and many current photos of the building and some history can be found here:
http://www.iamnotastalker.com/2012/0...ment-building/
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  #18840  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2014, 3:39 AM
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ethereal_reality ethereal_reality is offline
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Thanks to one and all for pinpointing the location of the photograph I posted that turned out to be
the T-intersection of Orlando and Santa Monica Blvd. This was truly a community effort.
__

Here's another mini-mystery, the McDaniel's Midnight Market circa 1938.

Perhaps we've seen this open-air building before, but i don't recall this particular name....McDaniel's M M.

__

Last edited by ethereal_reality; Jan 14, 2014 at 4:04 AM.
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