HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > St. John's


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #121  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 1:08 PM
SignalHillHiker's Avatar
SignalHillHiker SignalHillHiker is online now
I ♣ Baby Seals
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Sin Jaaawnz, Newf'nland
Posts: 34,724
Copes - let's start a discussion about unions when BigRedSpecial joins our forum meet.

Just teasing, BigRed.
__________________
Note to self: "The plural of anecdote is not evidence."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #122  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 1:09 PM
BigRedSpecial BigRedSpecial is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 142
Hahaha I'm not as good at avoiding conversations when I'm trashed
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #123  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 1:10 PM
Copes's Avatar
Copes Copes is offline
Millennial Ascendancy
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: St. John's, NL
Posts: 1,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copes View Post
The union has done its members a huge disservice.

As far as I am concerned, the constant rejecting of good offers is nothing sort of greed and an attempt to justify the existence of the union at all. The days of unions being necessary for the rights of workers are long passed, given the existence of minimum wage standards, employment health and safety standards, etc. etc. No one is dying on train tracks anymore or being paid so little they can't afford to eat.

So now, Unions need to ensure that they always get more. Every round of collective bargaining, they need to get more than the last round, or they appeared to have failed. It's an unsustainable cycle of needing more.

In this case, the union has demanded so much that the Airport simply can't budge and give in. They've tried to be reasonable... they've tried to be more than reasonable, but the union has rejected everything. So what happens? The airport reaches a point where they have no choice but to say "fine, we'll carry on without you." And guess what... they're carrying on just fine. Maybe it's not optimal... maybe there are some dirty bathrooms, but the bottom line is I am willing to bet that the airport is looking at this and saying "wow, we don't need all 85 of them to run this place." They probably need half that number.

I fully expect a round of layoffs to come down the pipe in the next year or two after all this is settled. They won't do it right away, but I'd say their eyes have been opened as to exactly how much excess exists. Maybe that's the solution. Hack the group in half and then offer higher wages to those that stay.

I say fire them all and hire new people who will work for what is fair. Hell, raise the salaries a couple bucks and hire the best of the best. That's capitalism. Supply and demand. If one service worker will only work for $18.00 / hour, but there is someone equally as qualified who will do it for $15.00... you hire the guy willing to work for $15.00. Maybe next time buddy at $18.00 won't overestimate what he's worth.

Standing on a picket line for six months doesn't mean that someone is worth and extra $5.00 an hour all of a sudden. Proving that you're the best at what you do, whatever the job, is what makes you irreplaceable and worth a raise.

I have no time for this strike, I very much dislike MOST unions, and I fully support cutting the lot of them and hire folks who want the work and will appreciate the job they have at the airport.
Again, to clarify, I assume the two bolded parts are why you guys are assuming I am for removing unions.

I poorly worded my post in that regard as I am not in favor of the annihilation of all unions. Reform, certainly. A hard look at what they should be doing and how they should be developing their policies, absolutely. But in regards to the first bolded part I was trying to imply that what Unions were INITIALLY created to do is no longer an issue, which is why they have had to evolve (and evolve into a negative, in my opinion). As to the second point, bad punctuation, but I meant that I dislike most unions, and fully support cutting the AIRPORT WORKERS who refuse to go back to work despite multiple very fair offers.

Anyway, maybe those parts weren't unclear, but I wanted to make sure there was no question. Collective bargaining is needed, but there are many other issues I have with Unions that I believe negatively influence a company's ability to carry out business in the most profitable way possible, which ultimately equals cheaper goods and services for you and me.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #124  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 1:12 PM
SignalHillHiker's Avatar
SignalHillHiker SignalHillHiker is online now
I ♣ Baby Seals
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Sin Jaaawnz, Newf'nland
Posts: 34,724
Oh, I don't assume you want to get rid of them all - we'd all have to write a ****ing book to fully explain the nuances of our views about a subject as expansive as unions.
__________________
Note to self: "The plural of anecdote is not evidence."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #125  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 1:16 PM
BigRedSpecial BigRedSpecial is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copes View Post
I won't engage you in debate given your desire to avoid it, but let me be clear regarding my opinion. I have no problems with the concept of Unions. I have major issue with their policies, how they are run, how they act, and what they demand from what I have witnessed in recent years when I have been paying attention. I believe in a worker's right to collective bargaining, but I feel that today's unions are largely unreasonable and inefficient and a negative addition to the overall running of a private entity.

But no, I'm not for wiping all of them out and reverting back to the industrial revolution either. That system was more flawed. If only a little.
I actually agree with that completely. The way I look at it, is Unions are like employers; they range from almost decent to very bad lol. There is no disguising the fact some of them have grown so large that they're main focus is staying relevant whatever the cost.

The flipside is that I believe if they were all to disappear, which many people would love to see, it'd plunge us back into a Caste system pretty quickly. I don't want to be a serf

The only reason I said I don't like to get into a debate is that union debates usually devolve pretty quickly to, basically, a shouting match between hard- entrenched stances. This is more of an intelligent conversation...

Did we just break the internet?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #126  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 1:20 PM
Copes's Avatar
Copes Copes is offline
Millennial Ascendancy
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: St. John's, NL
Posts: 1,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedSpecial View Post
I actually agree with that completely. The way I look at it, is Unions are like employers; they range from almost decent to very bad lol. There is no disguising the fact some of them have grown so large that they're main focus is staying relevant whatever the cost.

The flipside is that I believe if they were all to disappear, which many people would love to see, it'd plunge us back into a Caste system pretty quickly. I don't want to be a serf

The only reason I said I don't like to get into a debate is that union debates usually devolve pretty quickly to, basically, a shouting match between hard- entrenched stances. This is more of an intelligent conversation...

Did we just break the internet?
NO YOU BROKE THE INTERNET YOU UNION LOVING BASTARD I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #127  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 1:22 PM
BigRedSpecial BigRedSpecial is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 142
You're not doing it right, you didn't call me a f--

Last edited by jeddy1989; Mar 12, 2013 at 1:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #128  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 1:31 PM
Copes's Avatar
Copes Copes is offline
Millennial Ascendancy
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: St. John's, NL
Posts: 1,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedSpecial View Post
I actually agree with that completely. The way I look at it, is Unions are like employers; they range from almost decent to very bad lol. There is no disguising the fact some of them have grown so large that they're main focus is staying relevant whatever the cost.

The flipside is that I believe if they were all to disappear, which many people would love to see, it'd plunge us back into a Caste system pretty quickly. I don't want to be a serf

The only reason I said I don't like to get into a debate is that union debates usually devolve pretty quickly to, basically, a shouting match between hard- entrenched stances. This is more of an intelligent conversation...

Did we just break the internet?
Just another thought, perhaps my biggest issue with Unions aside from their negotiating tactics and demands, is the idea of seniority. That really grinds me.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #129  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 1:34 PM
SignalHillHiker's Avatar
SignalHillHiker SignalHillHiker is online now
I ♣ Baby Seals
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Sin Jaaawnz, Newf'nland
Posts: 34,724
Seniority is one of my biggest gripes as well. I agree with it within reason, but not as a means of creating a sort of rigid assembly line where NO upward mobility is possible based on merit.
__________________
Note to self: "The plural of anecdote is not evidence."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #130  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 2:50 PM
PoscStudent's Avatar
PoscStudent PoscStudent is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: St. John's
Posts: 3,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copes View Post
Just another thought, perhaps my biggest issue with Unions aside from their negotiating tactics and demands, is the idea of seniority. That really grinds me.
Unions want to protect the ones who gave them the most dues, in the end that's all they really care about. I'd like to know how much these union leaders are making.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #131  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 3:09 PM
BigRedSpecial BigRedSpecial is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 142
Yeah seniority is something that makes no sense whatsoever when used so rigidly.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #132  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 3:42 PM
AllBlack AllBlack is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland
Posts: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copes View Post
I say fire them all and hire new people who will work for what is fair. Hell, raise the salaries a couple bucks and hire the best of the best. That's capitalism. Supply and demand. If one service worker will only work for $18.00 / hour, but there is someone equally as qualified who will do it for $15.00... you hire the guy willing to work for $15.00. Maybe next time buddy at $18.00 won't overestimate what he's worth.

Standing on a picket line for six months doesn't mean that someone is worth and extra $5.00 an hour all of a sudden. Proving that you're the best at what you do, whatever the job, is what makes you irreplaceable and worth a raise.
I like this part.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #133  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 3:56 PM
jeddy1989's Avatar
jeddy1989 jeddy1989 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: St. John's, NL
Posts: 2,711
Interesting article in the Board of Trade's business news magazine,

Who would have thought that Newfoundland and Labrador would be turning to French countries (including European countries) for workers?

(I hope you can see the words)

__________________
-Where Once They Stood-
-We Stand-
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #134  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 6:08 PM
Townie709's Avatar
Townie709 Townie709 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland
Posts: 1,775
"Could hiring workers from French Speaking countries be part of the solution to our employment challenges?"

No.


.. Just kidding, it's great that we're looking not only to other provinces, but also other nations to employ more workers
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #135  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2013, 9:58 PM
jeddy1989's Avatar
jeddy1989 jeddy1989 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: St. John's, NL
Posts: 2,711
watch our Europe they want us to steal all your people

Solution to Labour Shortage is in Ireland

Quote:
The Canadian ambassador to Ireland, Loyola Hearn, spoke to members of the St. John's Board of Trade today where he made the case for the country's labour shortage to be filled by skilled workers from Ireland. Ireland and Canada have many things in common -- both share the same language and have similar cultural traditions - that's one of the reasons why Hearn believes the Irish could be the solution to Canada's labour shortage. Hearn says that there is an abundance of educated, skilled workers in Ireland who want to come to this country to work. With mega-projects like Muskrat Falls, there is a desparate need for skilled workers in this province. Hearn believes Irish workers, many of whom are architects, engineers and heavy equipment operators, could be the answer. However, Hearn says it's not as simple as inviting the workers to come over, as there are a number of regulations that need to be worked through first.
http://www.vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?...31939&latest=1

It's funny when you think about it because typically cities in the developed world that are booming, go after workers from the developing world and poor countries .. not us , we wanna make a mini Europe I think it would be cool and they would have and easier transition and more ease when adapting to our surroundings
__________________
-Where Once They Stood-
-We Stand-
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #136  
Old Posted Mar 13, 2013, 12:54 AM
Architype's Avatar
Architype Architype is online now
♒︎ Empirically Canadian
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: 🍁 Canada
Posts: 11,998
I wonder how the cost of housing in Ireland compares to St. John's and the parts of NL where the workers are needed?.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #137  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2013, 10:33 AM
jeddy1989's Avatar
jeddy1989 jeddy1989 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: St. John's, NL
Posts: 2,711
Global Business for Marine Tech Company

Quote:
A St. John's marine technology company is pulling in business from all over the globe. Kraken Sonar Systems Incorporated has been awarded two contracts: one with Australia's Defence Science and Technology Organization, another with the National Research Council of Canada.
The company's employees are working on advanced sonar and acoustic velocity sensors for unmanned underwater vehicles used in military and commercial applications. President Karl Kenny says the company's products and technologies also have potential for civilian markets.

Kenny says the research and development by Kraken Sonar Systems can enhance performance in terms of speed, accuracy and range.
http://www.vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?mn=2&id=31992
__________________
-Where Once They Stood-
-We Stand-
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #138  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2013, 11:03 AM
statbass statbass is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: St. John's
Posts: 1,650
Kvaerner confirms Hebron GBS win, values share at $1.5B

CBC
March 14, 2013
Author: Unknown

Quote:
A Norwegian company is confirming that it is part of the joint venture that has won a big construction contract for the Hebron gravity-based structure (GBS).

Kvaerner says its share of the contract is valued at $1.5 billion.

Hebron will become the fourth field off eastern Newfoundland to go into production.

The Norwegian firm and Peter Kiewit are 50-50 partners in the joint venture company — Kiewit-Kvaerner Contractors — doing the work.

"We are very pleased that Kiewit-Kvaerner Contractors has been selected to deliver the Hebron GBS,” Bjorn Gundersen, Kvaerner’s executive vice-president responsible for concrete solutions, said in a press release.

“This is a strategically important project for us and we believe it confirms our strong position within arctic technologies in general and gravity-based structures in particular.”

Engineering will be done in St. John's, with construction taking place at Bull Arm....
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...tract-313.html
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #139  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2013, 12:09 PM
AllBlack AllBlack is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland
Posts: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by statbass View Post
^ Surprised this is just making news now. KKC has been actively engineering in Newfoundland for the last couple of years and GBS construction is well underway at Bull Arm.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #140  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2013, 12:11 PM
Copes's Avatar
Copes Copes is offline
Millennial Ascendancy
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: St. John's, NL
Posts: 1,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllBlack View Post
^ Surprised this is just making news now. KKC has been active in Newfoundland for the last couple of years and GBS construction is well underway at Bull Arm.
Yeah how is this just news? When I was working at Exxon as a workterm student from May - September 2011, I was actively working with KKC... or Kiewit Kvaerner Contractors... on the GBS. That was like two years ago.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > St. John's
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:03 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.