parking podiums: tolerated compromise or the root of all evil? - Page 3

Beck4ABigChicago · #41 Posted **Dec 12, 2007, 3:12 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saber925

I'm not sure if this image has been posted before; I don't recall seeing it. It's from the Aqua website. www.lakeshoreeast.com/aqua-gallery.html

This base is a total waste of space and awful, especially considering how much surface area it takes up.....It looks like are trying to create some sort of retirement home where old people can enjoy the outdoors without accidentally wandering off. Add another tower poking out of that god awful podium and we can call it Presidential Towers Part Deux.

Don't jump on my back, I enjoy the building, hate the project.

VivaLFuego · #42 Posted **Dec 12, 2007, 3:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beck4ABigChicago

This base is a total waste of space and awful, especially considering how much surface area it takes up.....It looks like are trying to create some sort of retirement home where old people can enjoy the outdoors without accidentally wandering off. Add another tower poking out of that god awful podium and we can call it Presidential Towers Part Deux.

Don't jump on my back, I enjoy the building, hate the project.

For that much open space, at least part of it should be a public mall/promenade (not the pool, obviously)

honte · #43 Posted **Dec 12, 2007, 5:04 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beck4ABigChicago

This base is a total waste of space and awful, especially considering how much surface area it takes up.....It looks like are trying to create some sort of retirement home where old people can enjoy the outdoors without accidentally wandering off. Add another tower poking out of that god awful podium and we can call it Presidential Towers Part Deux.

Don't jump on my back, I enjoy the building, hate the project.

Yeah, the funny thing is, this is such a Chicago "tradition" to do this - for better or worse. It really reminds me of the SCB tower way up on Sheridan (the beautiful black one) that sits on a pretty nasty base. I don't think the base ruins the building, but it never really works. Same for Lake Point Tower.

There really are enough buildings in Chicago with this kind of giant podium appendage to call it a "style".

I am willing to bet that Studio Gang wanted to do more with it, but decided the money was better spent on the balconies. I am not sure I agree with that decision - if there is a fixed amount of money, do you put it all into one feature that's sure to get your firm noticed (and, sure, make the building more distinguished), or do you just try your best to build a really good building that isn't so flashy? The latter approach was that of the Modernists, and all it did in the end was get them in a lot of hot water for building "boring" designs.

Beck4ABigChicago · #44 Posted **Dec 12, 2007, 5:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by honte

Yeah, the funny thing is, this is such a Chicago "tradition" to do this - for better or worse. It really reminds me of the SCB tower way up on Sheridan (the beautiful black one) that sits on a pretty nasty base. I don't think the base ruins the building, but it never really works. Same for Lake Point Tower.

There really are enough buildings in Chicago with this kind of giant podium appendage to call it a "style".

I am willing to bet that Studio Gang wanted to do more with it, but decided the money was better spent on the balconies. I am not sure I agree with that decision - if there is a fixed amount of money, do you put it all into one feature that's sure to get your firm noticed (and, sure, make the building more distinguished), or do you just try your best to build a really good building that isn't so flashy? The latter approach was that of the Modernists, and all it did in the end was get them in a lot of hot water for building "boring" designs.

I agree with you, however, I am guess I am the opposite of a pomo hater. I prefer the simplicity of the footprint (it looks like, well, the bottom of a building). I think it is regrettable that this type of base has become a "style," since when did our "great" architects decide that we needed a mall in every damn building in the city...we just have malls with buildings shooting out of the top. This is the dumbest thing, move to PT, you will never, and I mean ever, have to leave the building - including the hookers. Nuclear war, building takes off and lands on the moon, full makeshift community.

ok, I'm ranting, lets just have more malls, maybe they'll put a chick-fil-a in one of them someday. F*ck I am irate at that rendering.

CGII · #45 Posted **Dec 12, 2007, 2:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beck4ABigChicago

This base is a total waste of space and awful, especially considering how much surface area it takes up.....It looks like are trying to create some sort of retirement home where old people can enjoy the outdoors without accidentally wandering off. Add another tower poking out of that god awful podium and we can call it Presidential Towers Part Deux.

Don't jump on my back, I enjoy the building, hate the project.

It worked quite well for this one:

Alliance · #46 Posted **Dec 12, 2007, 4:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beck4ABigChicago

I agree with you, however, I am guess I am the opposite of a pomo hater. I prefer the simplicity of the footprint (it looks like, well, the bottom of a building). I think it is regrettable that this type of base has become a "style," since when did our "great" architects decide that we needed a mall in every damn building in the city...

Honestly, I think such is a valid urban model. Why waste valuable street space when you can build every building the size of every block, filling it with retail, returants, and other commercial businesses, building green space on top between the towers. Its like creating a second artificial ground level. I like the concept, especially if it becomes continuous over a larger area. Its a more efficient use of space.

trvlr70 · #47 Posted **Dec 12, 2007, 6:53 PM**

The podium is one of the things that makes the Aqua project unique. I think it is awesome that residents will have that huge open green space with a large pool, running track, etc.. What other high rises in Chicago or NYC offer such things?

Beck4ABigChicago · #48 Posted **Dec 12, 2007, 7:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alliance

Honestly, I think such is a valid urban model. Why waste valuable street space when you can build every building the size of every block, filling it with retail, returants, and other commercial businesses, building green space on top between the towers. Its like creating a second artificial ground level. I like the concept, especially if it becomes continuous over a larger area. Its a more efficient use of space.

Yes, so are strip malls...wait, what you have just proposed IS a giant strip mall.

No Thanks, give me a nice little lobby with a door man, some leather couches, maybe some oak and marble, and a lack of a mall (and all the people that come with it) at my front door.

And Alliance, of all people, you are proposing 1 building per city block....anti-density have we become?

Beck4ABigChicago · #49 Posted **Dec 12, 2007, 8:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trvlr70

The podium is one of the things that makes the Aqua project unique. I think it is awesome that residents will have that huge open green space with a large pool, running track, etc.. What other high rises in Chicago or NYC offer such things?

And, your right, none in NYC, b/c it is a waste of real estate/lots that can be used for high rises. In Chicago, as it was mentioned in another post above, it is not unique. I am all for the easy living no-car thing, all I'm saying is I'd rather jolt around the corner to a pizza joint or coffee house than wander downstairs to the mall and hit the food court, this is not city living. And believe me, I know, I spent more than my share living in Presidential Towers when I was here on long term assignment. I just think it stymies creative, authentic neighborhood development in exchange for a bunch of mini-malls in places where highrises should go.

That being said, obviously people like the project and to each his own. In fact, I think the building is going to be great, I'm just sad it is going to have a block long dominicks/gap/starbucks jutting out of the bottom of it. Most simply said, I think it looks very unsophisticated. But its a nice recreation of suburbia (everything I hate about suburbia that is).

Aight, I'm done. Thanks for all the responses, happy to see the diverse opinions.

Nowhereman1280 · #50 Posted **Dec 13, 2007, 1:45 AM**

This building is going to be so fucking sweet when its done! Just look at how sexy the balconies look and we aren't even close to the most dramatic ones yet!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beck4ABigChicago

Yes, so are strip malls...wait, what you have just proposed IS a giant strip mall.

No, Strip malls have parking lots in front of them, therefore not a strip mall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beck4ABigChicago

I think it looks very unsophisticated.

Who says we should be looking to appear sophisticated? That's exactly why I live here and not the Coasts, I can't stand all the arrogant "sophistication" bullshit. Things should be done because they make sense, not because they look good, unless looking good makes sense, like we see with Aqua's balconies...

The arguement that podiums destroy density is largely invalid since they have no real effect on FAR. Notice you never see Podiums on office buildings, that's because people want to have their views preserved and no Chicagoan wants to live below the 20th floor anyhow. Therefore they just use the FAR gained from the podium and make the tower taller and skinnier, like Aqua. So no, this doesn't have any effect on density, it in fact encourages taller buildings that let more light filter in and preserve our views of all the pretty buildings while not destroying density.

Beck4ABigChicago · #51 Posted **Dec 13, 2007, 3:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

No, Strip malls have parking lots in front of them, therefore not a strip mall.

Who says we should be looking to appear sophisticated? That's exactly why I live here and not the Coasts, I can't stand all the arrogant "sophistication" bullshit. Things should be done because they make sense, not because they look good, unless looking good makes sense, like we see with Aqua's balconies...

I never sounded the rallying call for "arrogant sophistication" just sophistication. And anyhow, just because you don't want it doesn't mean others don't. There are plenty of places outside of a world-class international city you can go if you are seeking to escape it.

And making sense is interesting, I can only imagine a lifestyle where things are only done if they make sense, fun.

Aight, so I had to post this, please acknowledge my superior paint skills, I am trying to gain a reputation like HarryC's...and I think this will just about do it

Clearly if I wanted to make this realistic I would have increased the size of the podium about 4 times so it engulfed the whole city block, but oh well.

Dr. Taco · #52 Posted **Dec 13, 2007, 3:30 AM**

^ lol, beck, well done

Beck4ABigChicago · #53 Posted **Dec 13, 2007, 3:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstush04

^ lol, beck, well done

I'm glad you like it. I worked really hard on it.

Seriously, it is just my take on the base, I am not trying to peeve or offend anyone with my opinion...or sweet rendering (but I still hope the put a chic-fil-a in there).

CenIL_LA · #54 Posted **Dec 13, 2007, 4:01 AM**

hahahaha i laughed so hard.

Alliance · #55 Posted **Dec 13, 2007, 4:02 AM**

Guys, its not that bad.

mhays · #56 Posted **Dec 13, 2007, 8:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alliance

Do you even read what I write or just rant? I said nothing about anyhting being underground.

Bottom line: Bad urban planning is a result of bad architects putting parking garages at grade.

Architects don't decide these things. Developers do. Within zoning.

mhays · #57 Posted **Dec 13, 2007, 8:15 PM**

Aqua's balconies make sense? They look extremely inefficient to me.

honte · #58 Posted **Dec 13, 2007, 10:31 PM**

In any event, you know, the strip mall at the base of Aqua above doesn't look too bad to me in that photo, if you imagine there is no parking (as in reality). Not high-class by any means, but it's not a blank wall - it's active and useful. Actually, Aqua's large expanses of nearly blank walls above the retail space are what bother me most, and the "big boxy" stuff they have lined up probably won't make for much activity in the storefronts - I might like the "crappy urban" version better!