Will ever Winnipeg be like this?

[trueviking]

winnipeg might never be istanbul, but it wont be houston either...check out this photo from another thread...

[spiritedenergy]

Originally Posted by trueviking

winnipeg might never be istanbul, but it wont be houston either...check out this photo from another thread...

oh my gosh i can't believe it... it seems like the moon, it doesn'l look "terrestrial"... and isn't Houston supposed to be booming?

Winnipeg will never be my Beloved Constantinople, but it can be this:










Winnipeg needs to start to advertise what it has of unique and pristine... NATURE
i have a whole ecosystem in my backyard with deers, geese and all sorts of animals, this is definetely what i'll remember of Winnipeg.

[spiritedenergy]

if you want to have an idea of the sprawl going on in american cities, just compare the size of the cities in google map with their population:

Winnipeg is roughly 3 times bigger then Florence, which has a similar population, twice bigger then Rome (5 millions) and the same size of Istanbul (15 millions few years ago, probably more now) and slightly smaller then London.
Downtown Winnipeg is roughly the same size of downtown Florence, and bigger then the whole size of my hometown, Pistoia, 90,000.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by Lee_Haber8

Winnipeg really does need a streetcar network downtown. How about a starter line from the University of Winnipeg to the Forks via Portage Avenue? It could take up the two median lanes on Portage Avenue which would make the street more pedestrian friendly.

Technically we do have it all planned out. Just replace the Downtown Spirit and place rails into the streets within their existing routes, and voila! Street car network!

But that plan wouldn't hurt either.

[drew]

^ they probably just have to strip off a couple layers of asphalt, and they'd probably find some of the old streetcar tracks in place already...!

[Biff]

Originally Posted by drew

^ they probably just have to strip off a couple layers of asphalt, and they'd probably find some of the old streetcar tracks in place already...!

If you look at the intersection of Broadway & Osbourne you can see the tracks poking throught the pavement on the Great-West Life corner.

[bc2mb]

sam K will be out to fix that up right away!

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by trueviking

winnipeg might never be istanbul, but it wont be houston either...check out this photo from another thread...

Wow, I officially don't think that Calgary is so bad afterall now.

[IntotheWest]

Originally Posted by spiritedenergy

Winnipeg needs to start to advertise what it has of unique and pristine... NATURE
i have a whole ecosystem in my backyard with deers, geese and all sorts of animals, this is definetely what i'll remember of Winnipeg.

You are absolutely right...and Oak Hammock is very cool - a lot of Winnipegers haven't even been.

Before making a trip to the Peg with my wife (her first ever), I tried showing her pics of the lakes - especially Grand Beach...good luck finding good pics of anything MB on the net.

Also - it would be incredibly cool if Wpg could get a street car network up and running again...it would definitely be unique in western Canada.

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by IntotheWest

Also - it would be incredibly cool if Wpg could get a street car network up and running again...it would definitely be unique in western Canada.

I agree..

For those who doubt a light rail system would increase ridership consider this:

Originally Posted by lightrailnow.org

Minneapolis:
Light rail line exceeds weekday average ridership goal 15 years early

Ridership on Minneapolis's new light rail transit (LRT) system has been soaring. John DeWitt of Twin Cities-based Transit for Livable Communities (TLC, an underwriter of the Light Rail Now Project) relates that total ridership for June hit 699,000 person-trips (of which 75,000 were for Twins games). The ridership breakdown was as follows:

• Average weekday ridership – 25,193 (ranging from 22,700 to 31,700)
• Average Saturday ridership – 22,645 (ranging from 16,700 to 29,800)
• Average Sunday ridership – 13,581 (ranging from 9,100 to 17,200)

John observes that "Since the 2020 forecast for weekday ridership was 24,600, the Hiawatha line has surpassed that forecast by a healthy margin in its 12th month. The line provides in excess of 10% of all Metro Transit trips for 7.84% of the agency's total operating expense."

For July, ridership results are equally impressive. "Although Metro Transit was expecting a slip in ridership for July," reports John, "only the rate of growth slipped as it grew by about 22,500 rides in comparison with 50,000 per month in the preceeding months." He notes further that July ridership came in at 721,700, with weekday ridership averaging 26,500 – compared to a 2020 forecast of 24,600. The Hiawatha LRT service is thus exceeding its forecast 15 years early!

Another Minneapolis transit advocate, Tom Fairbairn, points out that LRT rolling stock is being utilized to capacity; thus, "all available equipment is frequently in use." Tom further reports that

"The system has ordered three additional articulated cars (same design as now used, from Bombardier), which should be here within the next year, I believe. But I suspect more will be needed shortly, and definitely if the University light rail system ever is built between downtown Minneapolis and St. Paul. One of the big draws has been during Metrodome events. The Vikings are looking to build a new stadium up in Blaine, Minnesota (a second-tier suburb north of Minneapolis several miles), which will take them out of the loop at the Dome. However, even if the Twins move to North Minneapolis, they will still be on the light rail and that won't change the loadings, or might increase them. The Vikings really don't contribute that much on an annual basis, anyhow, as the number of NFL games played at the dome is not that high.

[Only The Lonely..]

Looking at the economics of the Portland Street Car network, I have come to believe that a similiar system would be very doable for a city our size.

• Route length: 3.0 miles (March 2005)
• Stations: 44 (March 2005, total, both directions)
• Weekday ridership: 5,600 (2003)
• Vehicles: 7
• Total cost (original, 2001): $54.6 million for 2.4 route-miles – ca. $23 million/route-mile
• Total cost (extension, 2005): $15.8 million for 0.6 route-miles – ca. $26 million/route-mile

Originally Posted by Transportation Research Board

The Portland Streetcar in the city of Portland, Oregon, is the first modern streetcar line built in North America in the past fifty years. The 7.7-km (4.8-mi) single track streetcar loop was constructed in a short, 2-year time frame and at a very modest cost. In adhering to the theme of simplicity, the entire project, including five streetcar vehicles manufactured in the Czech Republic, cost approximately $54.6 million, or about $7.1 million per track-kilometer ($11.4 million per track-mile).

The concept of the service is single cars operating in mixed traffic on city streets, with stops every two or three blocks. Service was inaugurated on July 20, 2001. In the 2 years since, Portland Streetcar has enjoyed a steady growth in ridership and popularity.

Overall, the streetcar line has been extremely well-received, and the positive experience of the first 2 years of operation is lending credence to the city's efforts to expand the line to other areas close to downtown Portland. It has also become a model that many other municipalities, large and small, have come to see in order to gauge possible application in their own communities.

Furthermore, ridership has increased by 1000+ riders for each year since 2001.

[drew]

Seeing as Winnipeg was built-up around streetcar lines for the first 50 years or so of its being, I think I really makes sense to try and put in place a modern system much like Portland's. It may not be "rapid" transit per se, but you cannot deny the cool factor of the new street cars.

You could also use the streetcars to replace most of the regular bus routes in and around downtown, such that the only additional buses coming in and out of downtown would be the express buses at peak times...

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by drew

Seeing as Winnipeg was built-up around streetcar lines for the first 50 years or so of its being, I think I really makes sense to try and put in place a modern system much like Portland's. It may not be "rapid" transit per se, but you cannot deny the cool factor of the new street cars.

You could also use the streetcars to replace most of the regular bus routes in and around downtown, such that the only additional buses coming in and out of downtown would be the express buses at peak times...

I agree..

The infrastructure is in place, the initiative just needs to be shown.


Ohh, if only we had a mayor or a premier with some vision. Let's dig up Steve Juba tonight, whaddaya say?

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by drew

It may not be "rapid" transit per se, but you cannot deny the cool factor of the new street cars.

If I remember correctly the Portland system has the ability to change lights at intersections where the Tram passes so that its movement can be unimpeded.

The cars themselves also come equipped with bike racks during the summer months.

[The Diva]

With a little make up, and proper clothing, Juba would be welcome....

[drew]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

I agree..

The infrastructure is in place, the initiative just needs to be shown.

The more I think of it, the more streetcars seem like the most realistic "rail" solution for Winnipeg. We really don't have the finances or the need to build a true LRT system in this city - but a streetcar system seems like a logical first step towards making transit cool again in the this city.

It's fairly cost-effective, environmentally sound, has a massive visual impact (good politiking), and also satisfies the cool factor that would sway many in this city to get back on to public transit - and maybe even visit downtown more often.

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by drew

The more I think of it, the more streetcars seem like the most realistic "rail" solution for Winnipeg. We really don't have the finances or the need to build a true LRT system in this city - but a streetcar system seems like a logical first step towards making transit cool again in the this city.

It's fairly cost-effective, environmentally sound, has a massive visual impact (good politiking), and also satisfies the cool factor that would sway many in this city to get back on to public transit - and maybe even visit downtown more often.

The most important factor for me is that the street car actually takes you where you want to go.

None of the proposed LRT / BRT lines drop you off anywhere close to where your going.

For instance, take the proposed U of M line. It still drops you off 2 or 3 city blocks away from the campus.

Having walked down Chancellor Drive many times I can attest to the fact that it’s a long walk (approx 10 mins) and that's just to get to the perimeter of the campus never mind class.

The beauty of the street car is that it would drop you off at the front door.

[The Diva]

Concerning Houston, that is not a very flattering shot...I WISH Winnipeg had the streetscapes or skyline of Houston:

[drew]

^ there's those damn streetcars again...

[IntotheWest]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

Looking at the economics of the Portland Street Car network, I have come to believe that a similiar system would be very doable for a city our size.

• Route length: 3.0 miles (March 2005)
• Stations: 44 (March 2005, total, both directions)
• Weekday ridership: 5,600 (2003)
• Vehicles: 7
• Total cost (original, 2001): $54.6 million for 2.4 route-miles – ca. $23 million/route-mile
• Total cost (extension, 2005): $15.8 million for 0.6 route-miles – ca. $26 million/route-mile

Wow! That isn't a bad price! Stop all other construction in Winnipeg, and get this built! 3 miles doesn't sound like a lot, but it would be a good start.