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  #1201  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2018, 6:25 PM
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I think no matter what we get a weaker mayor and a city council that's quicker to slip into tribal warfare
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  #1202  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2018, 6:32 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Originally Posted by moorhosj View Post
If you think someone is trolling the solution is not to troll back, make a reasoned argument or ignore What I responded to was not a reasoned argument, it was bait.
It was over the top, but an important point was made. We seem to care too much for criminals. Tougher sentencing seems like an important part of the solution.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/gu...-em-up-debate/
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  #1203  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2018, 6:57 PM
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Rahm’s legacy in my view will be 1. Fantastic economic and job growth. 2 uncontrollable violence (deaths would be MUCH higher now than in the 80’s if it wasn’t for rapid advancemeant in medical technology, also, he is hamstrung by Kim Fox not prosecuting violent criminals). 3 shoring up the pension systems with massive property tax increases. 4 putting an end to the budget gimmicks. 5 improving education and graduation scores while closing some, but not enough underenrolled schools. 6 not bending over to government unions as much as Daley in contract negotiations.
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  #1204  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2018, 6:59 PM
mark0 mark0 is offline
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What did they do, and why doesn't Chicago do the same then?
Both cities pushed a large portion of their poverty out, NJ, Inland Empire, etc.
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  #1205  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2018, 7:03 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Originally Posted by maru2501 View Post
I think no matter what we get a weaker mayor and a city council that's quicker to slip into tribal warfare
Just another reason to shrink the city council. The council should be focused on city wide issues, not potholes on some tiny side street and catering to NIMBYs.
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  #1206  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2018, 7:19 PM
SIGSEGV SIGSEGV is offline
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How so?
Nobody trusts CPD, which makes it hard for them to solve crimes. It's not completely their fault, but they haven't earned the trust of anyone.
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  #1207  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2018, 7:40 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Nobody trusts CPD, which makes it hard for them to solve crimes. It's not completely their fault, but they haven't earned the trust of anyone.
Is that any different from any other large city though? CPDs issues are common in most major US cities it seems. I doubt that is a large driver.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/213869/...l-average.aspx
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  #1208  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2018, 7:53 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by Mikemak27 View Post
Rahm’s legacy in my view will be 1. Fantastic economic and job growth. 2 uncontrollable violence (deaths would be MUCH higher now than in the 80’s if it wasn’t for rapid advancemeant in medical technology, also, he is hamstrung by Kim Fox not prosecuting violent criminals). 3 shoring up the pension systems with massive property tax increases. 4 putting an end to the budget gimmicks. 5 improving education and graduation scores while closing some, but not enough underenrolled schools. 6 not bending over to government unions as much as Daley in contract negotiations.
no offense, but the pensions are not even close to being shored up. and theres still plenty of budget gimmicks. what do you call Rahms proposal to take out another $10 billion loan to fund pensions (which btw, the city wants to gamble on the stock market to try and outpace the 5% borrowing cost...hm, when has this ever gone badly before)?

http://www.wirepoints.com/rahm-emanu...cago-pensions/

Last edited by Via Chicago; Sep 5, 2018 at 8:03 PM.
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  #1209  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2018, 8:03 PM
SIGSEGV SIGSEGV is offline
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Is that any different from any other large city though? CPDs issues are common in most major US cities it seems. I doubt that is a large driver.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/213869/...l-average.aspx
Well, I think CPD is #1 false confessions and police misconduct settlements. Despite paying such large sums, officers aren't usually disciplined.

http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/a...e_confessions/
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...flated-by-debt
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...isconduct-bill
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  #1210  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2018, 8:12 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Well, I think CPD is #1 false confessions and police misconduct settlements. Despite paying such large sums, officers aren't usually disciplined.

http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/a...e_confessions/
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...flated-by-debt
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...isconduct-bill
I have to admit I'm not following. Are you claiming that people commit more crime because of bad police? I am trying to get to the bottom of why Chicago has a higher crime rate than LA or NYC.
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  #1211  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2018, 8:45 PM
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I have to admit I'm not following. Are you claiming that people commit more crime because of bad police? I am trying to get to the bottom of why Chicago has a higher crime rate than LA or NYC.
Police misconduct -> less trust in police -> harder to obtain evidence against criminals -> criminals commit more crimes.
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  #1212  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2018, 9:05 PM
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Police misconduct -> less trust in police -> harder to obtain evidence against criminals -> criminals commit more crimes.
Sorry, not buying it. But that's fine. I doubt Chicago's African Americans have a significantly different take on police than NYC or LA african americans do.
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  #1213  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2018, 9:57 PM
moorhosj moorhosj is offline
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Sorry, not buying it. But that's fine. I doubt Chicago's African Americans have a significantly different take on police than NYC or LA african americans do.
It is a fact that if you lock someone up for a crime they didn't commit (through false confession), the person who actually committed that crime isn't being locked up.
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  #1214  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2018, 10:03 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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It is a fact that if you lock someone up for a crime they didn't commit (through false confession), the person who actually committed that crime isn't being locked up.
I'm sure that's the reason crime is so much higher in Chicago than NYC and LA. Has nothing to do with stronger sentencing of violent offenders in those cities vs. Chicago.
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  #1215  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2018, 10:36 PM
SIGSEGV SIGSEGV is offline
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Sorry, not buying it. But that's fine. I doubt Chicago's African Americans have a significantly different take on police than NYC or LA african americans do.
This is hard to measure, but clearance rate is one observable. See e.g. https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/mu...w-low-in-2017/

Quote:
Another explanation is the poor relationship between police and people who live in high-crime neighborhoods. That tension — and mistrust — grew even worse after the 2015 release of the police dash-camera video showing a police officer shooting Laquan McDonald 16 times.

Police Supt. Eddie Johnson says one of his biggest priorities is to repair that damage so that people will report crimes to the police.

Los Angeles Police Department officials have pointed to their robust community-policing program as a major factor in solving murders.

Charlie Beck, the Los Angeles police chief, was quoted last year in the Los Angeles Times, pointing to how the murder clearance rate in housing projects served by his department’s Community Safety Partnership was 81 percent.
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  #1216  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2018, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
I'm sure that's the reason crime is so much higher in Chicago than NYC and LA. Has nothing to do with stronger sentencing of violent offenders in those cities vs. Chicago.
I am fully in favor of harsher sentencing for violent crimes (especially owning or discharging illegal guns), but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the opposition is motivated by CPD's reputation for planting drugs / guns.
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  #1217  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2018, 1:16 AM
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Ok TUP I'm going to go there again.


I listened to WGN radio midday for almost 45 minutes with a local political expert. I can't recall his name but he is on TV twice a week for 30 mins every week.

So it was said there was no way Rahm would quit being Mayor if he knew HQ2 was coming to Chicago for it would have been a major win and lever to go to a higher level of politics, Like the insane POTUS option.


But it did come out as a million to one that Rahm could or will coordinate and become part and join the Amazon team move and make millions doing so if it did come to Chicago.


IMO 99% he got bad news but there is that 1% chance he is going to be working for Amazon someday working out of Chicago.


I know it is an outlandish idea but it did come up on the radio that if he was going to want to be an instant multi millionaire that is one way to go about it.


I doubted the premise because Rahm would have hinted as such and not broke down weeping otherwise.


But the idea was put out there on WGN by a political procrastinator that offered a long shot idea. I personally do not believe this for one iota, but no one in the know, knows why he chose to drop out at this time other than he has bigger options out there. Its a weird time to do it politically.


Making real Money could be one of them but dropping out now prevents him from the chance to run for the POTUS unless the crazy option suggested is really a chance.

Again I did not come upon this theory by myself. I was just listening to WGN radio and wanted to share this tidbit.

And yes I am over the board obsessed on this HQ2 thing and I admit it. But if it happens you heard it here first.
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Last edited by bnk; Sep 6, 2018 at 1:37 AM.
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  #1218  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2018, 10:49 AM
Kenmore Kenmore is online now
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Originally Posted by mark0 View Post
Both cities pushed a large portion of their poverty out, NJ, Inland Empire, etc.
it's amazing that it needs to be said, NYC solved crime by making it someone else's problem, that's the Chicago plan too, it's just taking longer
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  #1219  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2018, 11:00 AM
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Maybe instead of roughing people up, CPD could drive people to Dallas or Nashville and drop them off.
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  #1220  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2018, 1:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
Maybe instead of roughing people up, CPD could drive people to Dallas or Nashville and drop them off.
Why would CPD need to drive them? People are going on their own
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