Winnipeg City Transit/Rapid Transit

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by Ando

Cutting the GST.

I assume you mean the PST and that wasn't a promise he made during the election. That was the previous election and they already fulfilled it. This is a further 1% reduction that came out of the blue.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I haven't really been following the carbon tax thing lately.

How is it being implemented? Like only on things that create carbon? Businesses and such? Gasoline. Or is every Manitoban paying a certain amount per year.

The whole intent of carbon tax is to encourage people to change their habits by making things more expensive and move away from fossil fuels.

The tax is on per tonne of carbon produced. So at an industry level and on a fuel level. There is carbon tax added to the price of gasoline and natural gas. So the fuel cost is a tangible cost consumers can see, the remainder is on businesses so it's less apparent what the added costs are to the end consumer.

And yes, it does reduce emissions. Study after study has shown this.

Short term the demand for gas is relatively inelastic, meaning price changes don't affect consumption all that much. Longer term if prices remain high people will move to more fuel efficient vehicles.

Long term the idea is that industry will look at ways at becoming greener to save money as well, what may happen is industry relocates to jurisdictions without carbon tax.

Pallisters argument against having to pay the full amount is that Manitoba already puts a lot of money into green energy ie Hydro and should get some benefit from that.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by cheswick

I assume you mean the PST and that wasn't a promise he made during the election. That was the previous election and they already fulfilled it. This is a further 1% reduction that came out of the blue.

If that’s the case, it’s even more brain dead than I thought.

[Glenn99]

The schedules for the extended Southwest Transitway are available. I compared my current schedule to the new one. Will take me 3 minutes LONGER in the morning and the same time in the afternoon. This also involved a transfer. Morning has a one minute wait in between buses, that's tight. I guess the scheduling will be more reliable. No Pembina congestion. Disappointing though not to see not even a 5 minute improvement.
Of course working from home now so my commute time is 0 minutes.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by Glenn99

The schedules for the extended Southwest Transitway are available. I compared my current schedule to the new one. Will take me 3 minutes LONGER in the morning and the same time in the afternoon. This also involved a transfer. Morning has a one minute wait in between buses, that's tight. I guess the scheduling will be more reliable. No Pembina congestion. Disappointing though not to see not even a 5 minute improvement.
Of course working from home now so my commute time is 0 minutes.

My commute (downtown to UofM) will actually become 6 minutes longer (current 161 takes 23 minutes, Blue line will take 29 minutes). But the service will be much more frequent than before and should also be more reliable since it avoids most traffic. Hopefully a net positive.

[Glenn99]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

My commute (downtown to UofM) will actually become 6 minutes longer (current 161 takes 23 minutes, Blue line will take 29 minutes). But the service will be much more frequent than before and should also be more reliable since it avoids most traffic. Hopefully a net positive.

Yes, that's my hope as well.

[Dengler Avenue]

It’s a hard choice between speed and flexibility. At one point will people prefer the former over the latter? Is it when the commute gets substantially longer (+15 min, for example)? That’s what happens in Ottawa, from what I gather.

[3de14eec6a]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

My commute (downtown to UofM) will actually become 6 minutes longer (current 161 takes 23 minutes, Blue line will take 29 minutes). But the service will be much more frequent than before and should also be more reliable since it avoids most traffic. Hopefully a net positive.

There were similar situations when the 1xx's originally came on line. Going from Osborne Village to the UofM on the 61 was ~15 minutes, then when that disappeared, it was a tossup between taking the ~30 minute 60, or the ~30 minute 185 (getting on at River&Osborne)

Not having to transfer, and lower wait between buses certainly seems to be the benefit here.

[buzzg]

I think the key to remember here is that even if your route becomes a few minutes longer of a trip, you should generally be able to just show up and go much more easily. Where before you likely had to plan further ahead, maybe wait longer to even get on a bus, and if you miss it it could be a while til the next one.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by buzzg

I think the key to remember here is that even if your route becomes a few minutes longer of a trip, you should generally be able to just show up and go much more easily. Where before you likely had to plan further ahead, maybe wait longer to even get on a bus, and if you miss it it could be a while til the next one.

Totally agree. Improved frequency trumps a minor speed advantage. Transit is much more useful when service is frequent enough that you don't even have to check departure times...you just show at the bus stop and can be reasonably confident you probably won't have to wait more than a few minutes for the next bus.

Under the current arrangement you might save 5 minutes on the route but that can be wiped out by waiting 10-15 minutes at the stop.

[Kris22]

Originally Posted by buzzg

I think the key to remember here is that even if your route becomes a few minutes longer of a trip, you should generally be able to just show up and go much more easily. Where before you likely had to plan further ahead, maybe wait longer to even get on a bus, and if you miss it it could be a while til the next one.

This. What makes transit easy and appealing in many other cities is the fact that you can just show up at a stop and be gone within 5 minutes. No planning, no stressing over times. Whereas in Winnipeg planning the trip ahead of time is of the utmost importance and if anything goes wrong you can be stuck shit out of luck for half an hour or longer somewhere. Which in our climate is unacceptable. I bussed for about 10 years in Wpg and it was just so irritating that I eventually decided to get a car and help ruin the environment.

Also if visitors to Winnipeg or casual riders are expected to ever use transit, having a "main line" system is so much easier to understand than anything else. You just have to get to the main line and you know you will be fine.

[buzzg]

Yup.^ I'd way rather spend a few extra minutes on a warm bus than a poorly heated shelter (if lucky) in winter.

Also you nailed it with regards to tourists and casual riders. When I travel I'll usually walk the extra distance to hit a main/simple line then try and figure out a multi-transfer or complex trip.

[tree]

Originally Posted by esquire

Totally agree. Improved frequency trumps a minor speed advantage. Transit is much more useful when service is frequent enough that you don't even have to check departure times...you just show at the bus stop and can be reasonably confident you probably won't have to wait more than a few minutes for the next bus.

Under the current arrangement you might save 5 minutes on the route but that can be wiped out by waiting 10-15 minutes at the stop.

The only thing that makes bussing bearable in this city (due to this problem) is having one of the apps that use the transit API to find out the actual expected arrival time of busses. (Wpg Bus Live works pretty good).
Basically its like having one of those signs showing expected arrival time on your phone - they usually have the exact same times. All of this is available for developers through the (surprisingly decent) Winnipeg Transit API.
It definitely doesn't help the fact that if the stop is more than a few minutes away that you may be left waiting far longer than you expect, but in some cases it does help me at least determine whether bussing will actually be faster than just walking, if I should even get ready to wait for a bus, or if my bus was just early and I missed it or if its just running really late.
This is main reason I don't trust the big transit plan they are proposing - i do not believe this 'every 5 minutes' thing will work anywhere except for the dedicated BRT (which is awesome once you get on it) and in less busy areas. I suspect downtown will still be a huge mess which will ripple outwards. We'll just have 6 busses showing up ~30 minutes late instead of 3.
Obviously hope I'm wrong but I don't understand how they expect it to work without dedicated lanes.

[buzzg]

It's a bit unfortunate transit isn't really going to get much time to work out the kinks on the summer schedule before getting back into fall. With COVID right now it could very easily be near July until things start getting back to normal in terms of traffic.

[njaohnt]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

My commute (downtown to UofM) will actually become 6 minutes longer........ But the service will be much more frequent than before and ........Hopefully a net positive.

Not true. 160 (which takes the same amount of time as the BLUE) is cancelled and BLUE has 7 busses from 8 to 9 AM, compared to 8 161s currently.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by njaohnt

Not true. 160 (which takes the same amount of time as the BLUE) is cancelled and BLUE has 7 busses from 8 to 9 AM, compared to 8 161s currently.

160 has been renumbered as (an extension of) 47, not cancelled. Also the service on BLUE will be frequent all day, whereas the current 161 only exists in rush hour.

[ywgwalk]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

160 has been renumbered as (an extension of) 47, not cancelled. Also the service on BLUE will be frequent all day, whereas the current 161 only exists in rush hour.

Ya, the new route map is here if someone wants to save a few clicks:

https://winnipegtransit.com/assets/2586/47.pdf

[njaohnt]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

160 has been renumbered as (an extension of) 47, not cancelled. Also the service on BLUE will be frequent all day, whereas the current 161 only exists in rush hour.

I see now, it looked to me like 47 terminated at Jubilee Station. I still say it is an overall reduction, as the vast majourity of people go to U of M before 161 stops with the last one arriving at 11:21. I think I might take 47 instead of the BLUE if I can time it, as I won't have to walk downtown.

[bomberjet]

Keep in mind the blue route, or A route if that goes ahead. Will go down Main St then on to Portage Ave. Depending on where you're walking to would be similar to the 47.

https://winnipegtransit.com/assets/2...ry_Network.pdf

Like I mentioned in the other thread. We'll see how the system works out over the first winter/university year.

[njaohnt]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Keep in mind the blue route, or A route if that goes ahead. Will go down Main St then on to Portage Ave. Depending on where you're walking to would be similar to the 47.

https://winnipegtransit.com/assets/2...ry_Network.pdf

Like I mentioned in the other thread. We'll see how the system works out over the first winter/university year.

I doubt that route will end up on Portage. Graham is much faster during rush hour. I can't see them making Graham open to cars. But putting it Portage wouldn't be that bad an idea compared to SWRT2...