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  #121  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2014, 3:35 AM
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HooverDam HooverDam is offline
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Hey everybody, we are throwing Arizona's first Better Block project on Saturday the 27th! Please come on out!

https://www.facebook.com/events/651175151656103/

If you're unfamiliar with Better Block projects their a combination of tactical urbanism and impromptu street fair. We'll have vendors, activities, informational classes and all kinds of good stuff. Its all free of course, and is sandwich between the times of the Phoenix Public Market and the Roosevelt Row Chile Pepper fest, so come make an urban day of it.

1st St, between Pierce and Garfield.
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  #122  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2014, 3:17 PM
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Hey Metro updated the LRT maps on the train! I always hated the old maps that made Phoenix, Tempe and Mesa different colors. I often overheard visitors being confused, thinking those were separate lines and they'd need to make transfers---which makes sense, different colors usually means that on a transit map.

Old Map vs New map


Big improvement! I also like that its gold/yellow, as I think as the entire system fills out the original line should be referred to as the Gold line since it will connect 3 of the 4 ASU campuses.
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  #123  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2014, 7:03 PM
Leo the Dog Leo the Dog is offline
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Originally Posted by HooverDam View Post
Hey Metro updated the LRT maps on the train! I always hated the old maps that made Phoenix, Tempe and Mesa different colors. I often overheard visitors being confused, thinking those were separate lines and they'd need to make transfers---which makes sense, different colors usually means that on a transit map.

Old Map vs New map


Big improvement! I also like that its gold/yellow, as I think as the entire system fills out the original line should be referred to as the Gold line since it will connect 3 of the 4 ASU campuses.
Definitely change for the better.

If they separate the initial starter line into two, they could make it maroon and gold.
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  #124  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2014, 5:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Leo the Dog View Post
Definitely change for the better.

If they separate the initial starter line into two, they could make it maroon and gold.
I imagine splitting the starter line will depend on how everything gets handled with the south and west extensions. Its going to get dicey right around CityScape. Will people have to transfer there or...I dunno, it could get confusing!

The Cityscape block is going to be surrounded on 4 sides by LRT at some point. Which makes it even more sad its such a poorly designed place. A really great small urban square with some retail lining it on all sides and maybe food vendor carts in it to keep it active, with people criss crossing it to switch trains would've been great.
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  #125  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2014, 12:52 AM
Jjs5056 Jjs5056 is offline
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Originally Posted by HooverDam View Post
I imagine splitting the starter line will depend on how everything gets handled with the south and west extensions. Its going to get dicey right around CityScape. Will people have to transfer there or...I dunno, it could get confusing!

The Cityscape block is going to be surrounded on 4 sides by LRT at some point. Which makes it even more sad its such a poorly designed place. A really great small urban square with some retail lining it on all sides and maybe food vendor carts in it to keep it active, with people criss crossing it to switch trains would've been great.
It'd be great if the retail block could just be demo'd; without the apartments, it really is nothing more than a suburban strip mall. I can't imagine a new development as you describe would take very long, and who the hell is using that pedestrian bridge anyway?
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  #126  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2014, 7:27 AM
Leo the Dog Leo the Dog is offline
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Originally Posted by Jjs5056 View Post
It'd be great if the retail block could just be demo'd; without the apartments, it really is nothing more than a suburban strip mall. I can't imagine a new development as you describe would take very long, and who the hell is using that pedestrian bridge anyway?
I could actually see this block being redeveloped in 15-20 years. It just seems so short sighted. Had they known or envisioned multiple LR lines converging, I'm sure this block would've been developed entirely different.
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  #127  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2014, 1:47 PM
Jjs5056 Jjs5056 is offline
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I could actually see this block being redeveloped in 15-20 years. It just seems so short sighted. Had they known or envisioned multiple LR lines converging, I'm sure this block would've been developed entirely different.
It was shortsighted and should've been redesigned as soon as the apartments were nixed. A 2-story inward facing retail block on public land was a terrible outcome, despite its success. And, two (or 3?) stops already land right outside the development and it did nothing to address those stops. I highly doubt the lazy developers would've done anything differently with the knowledge of additional stops.

I wish they had updated PSP, built the retail with apartments on the skyscraper block, and built the towers on the empty parking lot. The apartments would've had perfect views of the historic buildings CityScape ignored, and PSP could've functioned as a virtual transit center eventually. The towers and retail would've aligned with the sports venues as they probably should have. With updates and surrounding development, most of PSPs problems would've been fixed. Developing it was worth it under the original proposal, but as soon as it maxed out at 2 stories and was built of plastic, well... Ugh.

As it is, hopefully RED sells it at some point, and an investor spends money on making some obvious changes: a green roof for markets/small events instead of the concrete heat island, balconies on Jefferson for Copper Blues and Lucky Strike, and a patio for Gypsy on 1st Ave, secondary entrances on 1st Ave for Chipotle, JJ's and 5 Guys, and a secondary entrance on the corner for Chloe's. But, as we've seen with Arizona Center, even the obvious isn't so obvious to new buyers.
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  #128  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2014, 4:57 AM
doppelbanger doppelbanger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HooverDam View Post
I imagine splitting the starter line will depend on how everything gets handled with the south and west extensions. Its going to get dicey right around CityScape. Will people have to transfer there or...I dunno, it could get confusing!

The Cityscape block is going to be surrounded on 4 sides by LRT at some point. Which makes it even more sad its such a poorly designed place. A really great small urban square with some retail lining it on all sides and maybe food vendor carts in it to keep it active, with people criss crossing it to switch trains would've been great.
I don't think that Cityscape is going to be a problem. It's not like another line heading towards the capital/govt buildings etc is going to necessitate extra stops/transfers near Cityscape. Lines could switch at Washington and Jefferson and continue to that area. You will get on the train that says Capital instead of the train that says Montebello or whatever it says in the future. Is this not how subways and public transit works in every multi line city?
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  #129  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2014, 6:22 AM
Leo the Dog Leo the Dog is offline
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Originally Posted by doppelbanger View Post
I don't think that Cityscape is going to be a problem. It's not like another line heading towards the capital/govt buildings etc is going to necessitate extra stops/transfers near Cityscape. Lines could switch at Washington and Jefferson and continue to that area. You will get on the train that says Capital instead of the train that says Montebello or whatever it says in the future. Is this not how subways and public transit works in every multi line city?
I was thinking more along the lines of the physical layout of the block and the structures that occupy it. Had the developers envisioned multiple LR lines, they could've built accordingly.

Ie: "Smart Corner" in SD.
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  #130  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 12:45 AM
SunDevil SunDevil is offline
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Literally just found out about this. Probably too late for most to go tonight (including me) but it's cool anyway.

http://www.thefilmbarphx.com/event/6...oning-phoenix/

Quote:
A series of quarterly events, Envisioning Phoenix Film Series is a way to gather the Phoenix community to spark a discussion about the future of our city. It will showcase a film on a different topic relative to urban lifestyle, planning, or infrastructure. In addition to the movie, there will be a short panel that will give groups who are working to bring their envisioned future of Phoenix to life a chance to share their efforts with the community.
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  #131  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 5:47 PM
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Classical in Phoenix Classical in Phoenix is offline
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http://www.citylab.com/politics/2014...suburb/381096/

Interesting, on urban/suburban trends. But eh, it's Canada
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  #132  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 8:36 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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Originally Posted by Classical in Phoenix View Post
http://www.citylab.com/politics/2014...suburb/381096/

Interesting, on urban/suburban trends. But eh, it's Canada
Yes, that was interesting. Assuming it does apply to the US, a few ideas on why:

1) A lot of people like having transit nearby even if they don't use it on a daily basis. Despite riding a train only once or twice a month to special events, many find it convenient to have a station within walking distance.

2) Job sprawl has resulted in large number of reverse commutes for central city residents. Some people may use transit, walk, or bike evenings and weekends but find they still need a car for a daily commute to a suburban office park.

3) Minimum parking requirements in many cities make it seem easier and cheaper than it really is to own a car in the city. Unless parking is unbundled from rent, it's sometimes easy to forget the true cost of car ownership.
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  #133  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 9:26 PM
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Classical in Phoenix Classical in Phoenix is offline
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exit2lef, you do raise some good points. I live and work in Central Phoenix. My wife and I drove to an event out in the "country" (power and warner) this past Saturday. I was surprised, and disappointed, at the number of newer suburban office complexes on the way out. But then, development does follow freeways. I really hope that the trend we are seeing in an "inner" suburb, Tempe, begins to stop this way of thinking. I work in a real estate related field, and it and it does seem that land speculation in outer areas is very slow. With many closer in projects on the drawing board, this is a positive sign.
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  #134  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 11:25 PM
dtnphx dtnphx is offline
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
Yes, that was interesting. Assuming it does apply to the US, a few ideas on why:

1) A lot of people like having transit nearby even if they don't use it on a daily basis. Despite riding a train only once or twice a month to special events, many find it convenient to have a station within walking distance.

2) Job sprawl has resulted in large number of reverse commutes for central city residents. Some people may use transit, walk, or bike evenings and weekends but find they still need a car for a daily commute to a suburban office park.

3) Minimum parking requirements in many cities make it seem easier and cheaper than it really is to own a car in the city. Unless parking is unbundled from rent, it's sometimes easy to forget the true cost of car ownership.
Very well stated points.
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  #135  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2014, 10:39 PM
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HooverDam HooverDam is offline
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SkyTrain

So I had to pick my sister and her BF up from the Airport last night and I made her meet me at the SkyTrain (its the only way I can force my suburbanite sister into riding public transit). I've used the SkyTrain myself a few times and have used it to pick people up and it always seems rather empty compared to how busy the airport is. I put some thought into how to make it better and wanted your feedback: (some of these can be done easily, some are more long term)

* The Cell Phone waiting lot doesn't have a Flight Arrival board - its maddening.

* Inside the SkyTrain station there's no signage on Flight Arrivals/Departures, very annoying.

* 100% of the signs in the SkyTrain are in English only. Not very "international" for our international airport. They ought to at least also be in Spanish and perhaps Mandarin.

* No WiFi. It sure would be nice to have WiFi, especially for those waiting in the cell lot. I could see a Wifi signal called SkyTrain but it required a password and didn't seem to be public. Or if it was, there was no clear info on how to log on to it.

* There are way too many overnight shutdowns. Whole months, even into 'the season' have overnight shut downs.

* Unlike the airport itself there doesn't seem to be a dog/pet bathroom area. They have plenty of gravel 'gardens', it'd be easy to just add some stands with bags and waste bins

* There isn't nearly enough seating inside the station. I understand its meant just to be a place to pass through, but for senior citizens (like my stepdad who was with me last night) and the handicapped, they need to take a rest every so often and it was difficult.

* Every time I've been to the SkyTrain station there's no human presence of assistance. They need at least one Sky Harbor "Navigator" in there.

* There are no TVs, or even "Welcome to Phoenix/Arizona" video boards in the place. It all feels very empty, quite and creepy.

* There's no info on how to get a cab once you leave the SkyTrain. There's a place for cabs to pick you up, but how about some signage with local taxi's phone numbers listed.

* Amazingly there's no maps or timetables for buses and the LRT. There are city buses puling in and out but unless you have the whole Metro map memorized, you'd have no idea where they're going.

* If you're picking someone up w/ your car and want to leave your car to go inside, you have to pay for a meter. The meters are $2/hour, always. I was literally the only person in the lot at 7:30 last night and still had to avoid dozens of empty "stay in your car" spots, to pay $2. I'm fine with all the spaces being paid, but make them smart meters.

* Too few people use the SkyTrain b/c its easier to just go to the airport. We spent $1B on this thing, lets get people using it. Phase out in-airport cell phone waiting lots and consider levying a toll on in airport traffic (something nominal like $2, to encourage mass transit use).

* The early bag check in hours are too limited (M-F, 6a-1p).

* The employee lot is a surface lot, it needs to be a larger garage. Push most Sky Harbor employee parking to a future garage there and have them take SkyTrain into the airport.

* A neighborhood/area map would be nice. Tell people that there are nice things nearby like the Pueblo Grande Museum. The city is paying to operate Pueblo Grande, you'd think they'd try to promote it and direct people there.

* Nothing about the station says "Phoenix" or "Arizona". There are huge empty spaces and blank walls. Posters of Phoenix and AZ landmarks, displays of Native artwork, etc would be nice. The airport itself does a nice job of this with their in airport art collection ,it needs to expand to the SkyTrain station.

* Hopefully/eventually there will need to be more bike racks and long term bike storage.

* Canal between Washington and 44th St needs to be "canal scaped"/beautified. Canals are a big part of what makes Phoenix unique. This little section ought to be much more lush, have signs showing how it connects to a larger bike/ped network, etc. Right now it's just as ugly as most of our under utilized canals.

* Make sure to properly plan how the SkyTrain will integrate w/ a future Commuter Rail station. A Commuter Rail Station will likely sit just south of where the employee lot currently sits. If that lot was a garage it could also be a park and ride. Those using Commuter Rail could board on the ground level and the station could be 2 levels, with a long walkway w/ moving sidewalks connecting on the 2nd level of the SkyTrain--then people can switch to either SkyTrain or LRT.

I know thats a lot, but...thoughts? I was really frustrated last night by all the small details that seemed to be missing that can take a place or piece of infrastructure from good to great.
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  #136  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2014, 11:28 PM
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pbenjamin pbenjamin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HooverDam View Post
So I had to pick my sister and her BF up from the Airport last night and I made her meet me at the SkyTrain (its the only way I can force my suburbanite sister into riding public transit). I've used the SkyTrain myself a few times and have used it to pick people up and it always seems rather empty compared to how busy the airport is. I put some thought into how to make it better and wanted your feedback: (some of these can be done easily, some are more long term)

* The Cell Phone waiting lot doesn't have a Flight Arrival board - its maddening.

* Inside the SkyTrain station there's no signage on Flight Arrivals/Departures, very annoying.

* 100% of the signs in the SkyTrain are in English only. Not very "international" for our international airport. They ought to at least also be in Spanish and perhaps Mandarin.

* No WiFi. It sure would be nice to have WiFi, especially for those waiting in the cell lot. I could see a Wifi signal called SkyTrain but it required a password and didn't seem to be public. Or if it was, there was no clear info on how to log on to it.

* There are way too many overnight shutdowns. Whole months, even into 'the season' have overnight shut downs.

* Unlike the airport itself there doesn't seem to be a dog/pet bathroom area. They have plenty of gravel 'gardens', it'd be easy to just add some stands with bags and waste bins

* There isn't nearly enough seating inside the station. I understand its meant just to be a place to pass through, but for senior citizens (like my stepdad who was with me last night) and the handicapped, they need to take a rest every so often and it was difficult.

* Every time I've been to the SkyTrain station there's no human presence of assistance. They need at least one Sky Harbor "Navigator" in there.

* There are no TVs, or even "Welcome to Phoenix/Arizona" video boards in the place. It all feels very empty, quite and creepy.

* There's no info on how to get a cab once you leave the SkyTrain. There's a place for cabs to pick you up, but how about some signage with local taxi's phone numbers listed.

* Amazingly there's no maps or timetables for buses and the LRT. There are city buses puling in and out but unless you have the whole Metro map memorized, you'd have no idea where they're going.

* If you're picking someone up w/ your car and want to leave your car to go inside, you have to pay for a meter. The meters are $2/hour, always. I was literally the only person in the lot at 7:30 last night and still had to avoid dozens of empty "stay in your car" spots, to pay $2. I'm fine with all the spaces being paid, but make them smart meters.

* Too few people use the SkyTrain b/c its easier to just go to the airport. We spent $1B on this thing, lets get people using it. Phase out in-airport cell phone waiting lots and consider levying a toll on in airport traffic (something nominal like $2, to encourage mass transit use).

* The early bag check in hours are too limited (M-F, 6a-1p).

* The employee lot is a surface lot, it needs to be a larger garage. Push most Sky Harbor employee parking to a future garage there and have them take SkyTrain into the airport.

* A neighborhood/area map would be nice. Tell people that there are nice things nearby like the Pueblo Grande Museum. The city is paying to operate Pueblo Grande, you'd think they'd try to promote it and direct people there.

* Nothing about the station says "Phoenix" or "Arizona". There are huge empty spaces and blank walls. Posters of Phoenix and AZ landmarks, displays of Native artwork, etc would be nice. The airport itself does a nice job of this with their in airport art collection ,it needs to expand to the SkyTrain station.

* Hopefully/eventually there will need to be more bike racks and long term bike storage.

* Canal between Washington and 44th St needs to be "canal scaped"/beautified. Canals are a big part of what makes Phoenix unique. This little section ought to be much more lush, have signs showing how it connects to a larger bike/ped network, etc. Right now it's just as ugly as most of our under utilized canals.

* Make sure to properly plan how the SkyTrain will integrate w/ a future Commuter Rail station. A Commuter Rail Station will likely sit just south of where the employee lot currently sits. If that lot was a garage it could also be a park and ride. Those using Commuter Rail could board on the ground level and the station could be 2 levels, with a long walkway w/ moving sidewalks connecting on the 2nd level of the SkyTrain--then people can switch to either SkyTrain or LRT.

I know thats a lot, but...thoughts? I was really frustrated last night by all the small details that seemed to be missing that can take a place or piece of infrastructure from good to great.
We have taken a couple of 2-1/2 day trips in the last month and it turns out to be cheaper for us to park inside ($11/day) at the long term parking and use the Sky Train than it would be for our usual drill of using Super Shuttle to get to the airport and a cab home. It's worked out quite well and we'll continue to do that when it makes sense to do so. We were overall very pleased with the experience, I guess our cup is half full...

There is a "pet patch" of some kind between the two parking structures. If you come down the elevator in Building A and then go outside, you can see it to your left.

I haven't seen any numbers on ridership but duing the times that we have been there seem to have been a lot of people using the SkyTrain.
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  #137  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2014, 12:31 AM
Jjs5056 Jjs5056 is offline
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Hooever- as usual, your comments are basically spot on and maddening to read.

I think the biggest issue is that the City has no plans on trying to make this area a true urban neighborhood. At the very least, there will be the Papago at Grand development, Papago Park Center, Dupont Circle Apartments, Washington Corporate Center, The Lofts at Rio Salado, Aloft Hotel, Pueblo Grande Museum, Phoenix Fire Museum, Papago Park, DBG, Phoenix Zoo and the Van Buren/44th Gateway area (hotels, offices, etc.). That's without taking into consideration the possibility of a future multimodal transit hub and associated development that is inevitable given ASU's presence at Phoenix Municipal Stadium (a hotel is already in the works).

There absolutely should be wayfinding and a distinct streetscape theme in the immediate vicinity that gives riders an idea of the attractions, accomodations, etc. that are so close by. I wish a streetcar connected these amenities, but in the meantime, why not a trolley that came by every so often, especially on weekends, or at least a dedicated bus? The lack of bus/transportation info seems insane. The canal adjacent should also be a showpiece on how to incorporate canals into any type of project - residential, commercial, multimodal hub, etc. But, as usual, Phoenix talks the talk but when it comes down to it, they'll never spend the funds to create such a project.

Arrival/departure information is key and I can't believe that these can't be found for those waiting and for those using the actual tunnel - these need to be added ASAP.

Lastly, I would post your suggestion regarding "Welcome to Arizona" messaging on the VisitArizona Facebook. I used to work for the Arizona Office of Tourism's marketing agency and that's their official Facebook - I am sure they would love additional opportunities to use the marketing videos, billboards, etc. they have and also have the lobbying power to get any infrastructure needed installed.
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  #138  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2014, 3:25 AM
Leo the Dog Leo the Dog is offline
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Good observations Hoover. I have yet to ride it (I usually drive to Phx from SD). Most of what you said are excellent ideas, I do have two objections to what you stated.

I would not eliminate the cell phone lot just to increase ridership on SkyTrain. This creates another hassle for arriving passengers. It's redundant. Ultimately, they're still leaving the airport area in a vehicle.

Secondly, signs in Mandarin? Totally disagree with this for a few reasons. Most Chinese coming to the U.S. comprehend English (they're educated, business class). Also, English is the global language of business. Learn it!

I'm ok with Spanish, because we are in the Western Hemisphere and many locals of Phoenix use Spanish as their primary/secondary language.
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  #139  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2014, 4:29 AM
exit2lef exit2lef is offline
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The airport's secondary goal of making the SkyTrain station into a remote pickup and dropoff spot has always seemed questionable. Most of the time, it's just so much easier to pickup and dropoff someone directly at the terminal. That said, the SkyTrain is heavily used for the two things it does well:

1) Connecting the airport with light rail. Those passengers stay on the upper floors of the 44th St. station, explaining why the ground floor feels so empty.
2) Connecting the East Economy garages to the terminals.

I don't think there's a big problem here, although some of your suggestions do make sense if only for aesthetic reasons.

Last edited by exit2lef; Oct 25, 2014 at 3:55 PM.
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  #140  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2014, 1:29 PM
Tito714 Tito714 is offline
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I was listening to the local sports radio yesterday afternoon, and it seems like I caught the last half of the intreview with one of the Phoenix Suns executives. It seems like there is some talk about the Suns needing a new arena within the next 7 years. Nothing concrete as of yet, but wow that would suck if the Suns moved out of downtown.
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