Atlantic Highways Thread

[Dengler Avenue]

Here's mine.

[Pugsley]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

At least I applaud N.B. for building Welsford Bypass with divided 4 lanes (except at the ends) right from the get go.

Agreed, that would have been amazing the entire way to Fredericton.

Someone mentioned the Base and that it may be an issue. That's why I've always advocated a new four-lane that runs to the west after Welsford and follows up the edge of the base (off property) close to the current 101 and then through Waasis and links up to the current 7/2 Interchange at the Lincoln/Fredericton border.

As for the cost, I think it is time to re-think toll roads. Back in the 90s, people were livid with the idea of tolls. Today, I think people would be more open to them - especially if they had a choice. Ex: Take the older 2-lane route for free through the base or for $4-5, take the new four-lane high-speed route.

If that was the case, I'd be on the phone to Cintra Executives in Spain and getting some shovels in the ground ASAP.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

Agreed, that would have been amazing the entire way to Fredericton.

Someone mentioned the Base and that it may be an issue. That's why I've always advocated a new four-lane that runs to the west after Welsford and follows up the edge of the base (off property) close to the current 101 and then through Waasis and links up to the current 7/2 Interchange at the Lincoln/Fredericton border.

As for the cost, I think it is time to re-think toll roads. Back in the 90s, people were livid with the idea of tolls. Today, I think people would be more open to them - especially if they had a choice. Ex: Take the older 2-lane route for free through the base or for $4-5, take the new four-lane high-speed route.

If that was the case, I'd be on the phone to Cintra Executives in Spain and getting some shovels in the ground ASAP.

It would also probably require reducing the speed limit on the old route to 80 or 90 and strictly enforcing it in order to drive enough traffic to the new toll road. Even then, I'm not sure there is enough traffic between SJ and Freddy to support the kind of toll road you are envisioning

I also think you underestimate the outrage from a significant percentage of the population. I'm not sure any government would see enough political upside to risk the fallout.

I don't know how wide the ROW is for Route 7 but it might be possible to build more passing lanes or even extend some of the 4 lane sections like around Petersville That section is on the base and was twinned some years ago so..........

[Taeolas]

I don't think people have an issue with Toll Roads in NB necessarily. I think the problem was the implementation they trialed near Freddy. For the most part, you want Toll roads to be catching outsiders, who are not already paying part of your tax base (or who may not know the routes to bypass them). But NB's experiment in Toll roads back then put the toll booth right outside Fredericton, so it was catching all the local commuter traffic as well as inner-provincial traffic from the upper valley going to SJ and Moncton. It didn't really feel like a 'fair' toll system.

Ideal Tolls for our highways would be to stick them on the NS and PQ boarders to start, so you're capturing interprovincial travellers. Maybe also stick one on NB-95 near Woodstock and down on Route 1 near Calais too. (But leave the Confederation bridge alone for now).

That said, in an ideal world, rerouting the highway off the base would probably be a good idea but it would probably never happen. By routing it off base, you're putting it closer to the other communities along the edge of the base (Freddy Junction, Geary, etc....) so you're not driving through isolated wilderness for most of your trip.

I've long held the current TCH routing is also a bad idea. Due to the flood plains, routing it through the base was basically unavoidable. But they really should have shot it down to Sussex and made that a linchpin with Route 1 so it would be servicing more towns and villages, instead of the 80km of wilderness you get between Jemseg and Salisbury. I know I find driving Route 1 a lot nicer IMO than driving the TCH, mainly because it feels like there's more around me as I'm driving it.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by sailor734

It would also probably require reducing the speed limit on the old route to 80 or 90 and strictly enforcing it in order to drive enough traffic to the new toll road. Even then, I'm not sure there is enough traffic between SJ and Freddy to support the kind of toll road you are envisioning

I also think you underestimate the outrage from a significant percentage of the population. I'm not sure any government would see enough political upside to risk the fallout.

I don't know how wide the ROW is for Route 7 but it might be possible to build more passing lanes or even extend some of the 4 lane sections like around Petersville That section is on the base and was twinned some years ago so..........

Purely speculation on my part, but I think the base issue is more about the controlled access nature of the highway than the width of the ROW.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

Purely speculation on my part, but I think the base issue is more about the controlled access nature of the highway than the width of the ROW.

You could well be right. I've long heard that there are issues making upgrading Route 7 complicated that have to do with DND but I really don't know the specifics.

[adamuptownsj]

ROW can be easily secured- exit 63 (just north of here https://paol-efel.snb.ca/paol.html?v...n&pan=05346891) is in the base territory, technically.

I don't think it's really worth it, as nice as it would be. I don't disagree with what anyone's said, but getting the Martinon Bypass to Welsford Bypass section twinned, and fixing the weird end of Route 7 by the Nature Park, would be a Herculean stretch and would fill most of our needs anyway. I'd be happy to see Martinon Bypass to just past Colonel Nase Blvd for now.

It's only 33km from Welsford to Broad Rd in Geary, and that 9km northern section between Broad and the TCH needs to be improved too.

[Pugsley]

I think that as soon as you add federal lands to the equation, regardless of the ROW, things get more complicated. The back and force, especially between a Higgs government and the Liberals at the federal level would be dead in the water in today's political climate. Higgs would blame Trudeau for hurting progress without even bothering to look at alternatives like a re-route to the west. It will just be another political talking point with nothing being done.

Really sad, as this could further boost development and growth between these two major cities, create jobs, and improve overall safety for taxpayers.

As for the money being spent on the revised interchange between the 7 and the 1, I don't see this as a priority. Yeah, it is wonky, it requires folks to slow down, and it is narrow...but it still works. I mean there are interchanges across Nova Scotia that have much worse configs and far more traffic (102/103, 102/TCH). These funds could have been put towards twinning the 7 further along Westfield but instead, we are fixing a problem that frankly, I don't see as being a priority over increased safety along a 2-lane commuter highway.

[adamuptownsj]

I don't think political animosity would interfere with this. I don't know if such a decision would reach the ministerial level. The base doesn't even use the land near Route 7, barring a service road or two. I can't imagine the feds saying 'lol no we don't like your premier so we won't do it'. But like others said, the southern stretch is ridiculous. Build three overpasses and reconfigure three sets of ramps and you've got a functional divided 4-laner serving everyone from Browns Flat to South Bay. It would be a boon for Grand Bay and environs.

Rerouting past Fredericton Junction and Tracy seems like a taller order and would require moving where TCH meets Route 1, maybe to where they diverge southwest of the Fredericton airport. Unless you'd want to double back over the Oromocto River to Geary.

[Nashe]

The part of the highway that keeps me awake at night is the TCH 2 at Sackville/Tantramar. It's SO close to going underwater and cutting off a whole province. Or two, technically...

[OliverD]

I just don't see how the economics make sense to twin Route 7 more than has already been done. It's not a bad highway at all and the traffic numbers are not high enough to justify it. Improve the Broad Road intersection and call it a day.

[Pugsley]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Rerouting past Fredericton Junction and Tracy seems like a taller order and would require moving where TCH meets Route 1, maybe to where they diverge southwest of the Fredericton airport. Unless you'd want to double back over the Oromocto River to Geary.

Do you mean Route 7? The Current Route 7 comes down from Fredericton and connects to the TCH further west (where it by-passes for New Maryland) and is currently a part of the TCH along past Oromocto before it breaks off again to be its own highway. I was suggesting a NEW route would instead go south from the western 7/TCH interchange closer to Fredericton, through Waasis, Tracy, etc... and then connect to the existing 7 where the current four-lane is south of Welsford. The current Welsford to Oromocto segment of the 7 through CFB Gagetown would simply be "as-is" and a re-numbered highway, likely a blue-series, connected Welsford and Oromocto at the current 7/TCH interchange further east.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

I've long held the current TCH routing is also a bad idea. Due to the flood plains, routing it through the base was basically unavoidable. But they really should have shot it down to Sussex and made that a linchpin with Route 1 so it would be servicing more towns and villages, instead of the 80km of wilderness you get between Jemseg and Salisbury. I know I find driving Route 1 a lot nicer IMO than driving the TCH, mainly because it feels like there's more around me as I'm driving it.

I have also held this view. A possible routing for the TCH AND Route 7 could have been done together. If the TCH was routed along Route 1 to Sussex, and then continued west crossing the Saint John River somewhere around Hampstead, you could have route 7 follow the river north eastward after Grand Bay-Westfield, meeting the TCH just after its crossing of the river. It would then either continue west through the base connecting to the existing TCH in Oromocto or it would continued north along the west side of the Sainy John river, bypassing the villiage of Gagetown and connecting with the existing TCH in upper gagetown.

On the topic of tolls, you would never by able to put a toll at the NS border as too many people commute between Sackville and Amherst. The mostly logical toll locations would be on Route 95 near the US border and just west of exit 414 on the TCH. This is the first exit after Route 1 splits off. There isn’t another exit west of this until Cole’s island so it is not going to effect many commuters. One at the Quebec border also may work.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

I've long held the current TCH routing is also a bad idea. Due to the flood plains, routing it through the base was basically unavoidable. But they really should have shot it down to Sussex and made that a linchpin with Route 1 so it would be servicing more towns and villages, instead of the 80km of wilderness you get between Jemseg and Salisbury. I know I find driving Route 1 a lot nicer IMO than driving the TCH, mainly because it feels like there's more around me as I'm driving it.

I love New Brunswick to bits, and that section from Jemseg to Salisbury does it no favours, it is one of the most boring/uninspiring sections of highway I've ever seen. We have so much to offer for scenery, natural wonder, and beautiful small towns and instead it just punches through a flat, dull void.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

I love New Brunswick to bits, and that section from Jemseg to Salisbury does it no favours, it is one of the most boring/uninspiring sections of highway I've ever seen. We have so much to offer for scenery, natural wonder, and beautiful small towns and instead it just punches through a flat, dull void.

Coming back from Moncton last week I took the old Route 112 "shortcut". A bit less boring and almost no traffic.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by OliverD

Coming back from Moncton last week I took the old Route 112 "shortcut". A bit less boring and almost no traffic.

If you work at it, it is possible to drive from Moncton to Saint John through near continuous farmland on the side roads. It is very scenic.

- 106 from Moncton to Petitcodiac
- 890 from Petitcodiac to Sussex
- Bypass Sussex using the Roachville Road (nice covered bridge along the way)
- 121 down the Kennebecasis Valley to Hampton
- 100 the rest of the way to Saint John.

I really like the drive. I do it about once a year.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

If you work at it, it is possible to drive from Moncton to Saint John through near continuous farmland on the side roads. It is very scenic.

- 106 from Moncton to Petitcodiac
- 890 from Petitcodiac to Sussex
- Bypass Sussex using the Roachville Road (nice covered bridge along the way)
- 121 down the Kennebecasis Valley to Hampton
- 100 the rest of the way to Saint John.

I really like the drive. I do it about once a year.

I've done similar between Fredericton and Moncton.

- Route 105 to Youngs Cove (gotta hop on the TCH briefly now that the old bridge is closed)
- Route 10 to Sussex
- 890 to Petitcodiac
- Route 106 to Homestead Road
- Homestead Road to Moncton

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

Do you mean Route 7? The Current Route 7 comes down from Fredericton and connects to the TCH further west (where it by-passes for New Maryland) and is currently a part of the TCH along past Oromocto before it breaks off again to be its own highway. I was suggesting a NEW route would instead go south from the western 7/TCH interchange closer to Fredericton, through Waasis, Tracy, etc... and then connect to the existing 7 where the current four-lane is south of Welsford. The current Welsford to Oromocto segment of the 7 through CFB Gagetown would simply be "as-is" and a re-numbered highway, likely a blue-series, connected Welsford and Oromocto at the current 7/TCH interchange further east.

Yes I meant Route 7, sorry.

On the other subject, once you cross the Jemseg bridge, the TCH should have veered SW, crossed the Washedemoak near Cambridge-Narrows, met Route 1 where it should end near Berwick north of Sussex, then run between Rte 880 and Rte 890 until about the Rte 885 ramps. This would have eliminated the weird duplication of E-W twinned highways. But at this point, we're stuck with it. Maybe something from Bloomfield to the TCH roughly following Rte 695 would be more practical. But 43km of new highway vs upgrading 48 along the current route... IDK.

[MonctonRad]

Feds will stop investing in 'large' road projects, environment minister says
Steven Guilbeault revised his comments after saying Ottawa would stop investing in new road infrastructure
John Paul Tasker · CBC News · Posted: Feb 14, 2024 12:10 PM AST | Last Updated: 7 minutes ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gui...oads-1.7114867

"There will be no more envelopes from the federal government to enlarge the road network," Guilbeault said, according to quotes published in the Montreal Gazette.

"We can very well achieve our goals of economic, social and human development without more enlargement of the road network."

Guilbeault said the federal government is intent on moving people out of their cars and into public transportation, which the government has spent billions to build.

He said the federal government also wants to encourage "active transit," which means getting people to walk and cycle.

In a country as large as Canada, with weather as fickle as Canada's, Guilbeault's comments seem pretty tone deaf. This guy is both out of touch and out to lunch........

I guess if you want to visit Cape Breton now you'll have to bicycle there........

Yet another nail in the coffin of this Liberal administration.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Feds will stop investing in 'large' road projects, environment minister says
Steven Guilbeault revised his comments after saying Ottawa would stop investing in new road infrastructure
John Paul Tasker · CBC News · Posted: Feb 14, 2024 12:10 PM AST | Last Updated: 7 minutes ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gui...oads-1.7114867



In a country as large as Canada, with weather as fickle as Canada's, Guilbeault's comments seem pretty tone deaf. This guy is both out of touch and out to lunch........

I guess if you want to visit Cape Breton now you'll have to bicycle there........

Yet another nail in the coffin of this Liberal administration.

Wow and all that wisdom coming from a man that has never owned a vehicle but knows how to use a ladder for Political stunts. He clearly has free reign to do and say whatever comes into his demented little head.The PMO is probably just happy as can be.