SAN ANTONIO | Urban Core Development Thread - Page 61

sakyle04 · #**1201** Posted **Jul 18, 2008, 5:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexjon

However, I need to point out that this cart usually precedes the horse as it did with Portland's downtown redevelopment. They had every intention of getting to DT first and branching out to the Pearl District area, but it didn't go that way. The Pearl District came first and has lead to growth in the downtown Portland core.

Is this, then, as I assumed...? Was Pearl a sort of safe introduction into the urban living scene?

New construction, new infrastructure, new shops and restaurants (obviously re-use of old but the feeling is new)....almost all of the amenities of a new suburb except you happen to live on the third floor above a Starbucks and an attorney???

kornbread · #**1202** Posted **Jul 18, 2008, 7:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sakyle04

First, that was a great post.

I think that the above quote is the part which you have really nailed. I think we have seen a very slow embracing of the new DT/urban lifestyle here in SA. That probably has to do with our corporate mix and available developable suburban land vs. downtown SA land prices more than anything else, but it still is starting to look like fact that we in SA are just not really biting on high-rise living (from a buying standpoint) on the same level as similar cities.

That said, SA is crawling. And crawling does lead to walking...Alteza and Vidorra will grow the momentum in their own way and Vistana will expose a large number of potential buyers to the product without forcing them into a 30-year mortgage. River North looks like it will begin to be a little "safer" introduction into the urban idea, as people will not be in the core per se, but still participating in a more DT lifestyle.

Renters will become buyers eventually (and if nothing else they contribute to a more livable DT simply in their numbers which create a greater demand for services for a residential population). The real question is whether there will be reasonably affordable space in DT proper. South Flores is booming because it is only 150% the price per sf of the suburbs. Alteza is closer to 400% on a rough estimate. Vidorra is around 200%.

If we can get a few projects on the drawing board that would allow people to live in DT at 200% their current cost per sf I think we might have a tipping point. if we can't, then we will see more of the same - a growing urban identity with residential urbanity existing just outside the true core of DT.

(As a personal example, my wife and I spent 150% per sf over a suburban option to live close to DT...we would have lived in DT proper but were priced out and therefore chose to live 1.5 miles out in a single-family home.)

Thanks and right back at you. It couldn't have been stated better.

J.Dskyhigh · #**1203** Posted **Jul 18, 2008, 7:38 PM**

Hey i know this has nothing to do with the conversation but on emporis the Vidorra is listed as 25 floors at 292ft. I know it prolly just haven't been updated but if the floor count's at 20, then wouldn't the height be somewhere around 235 to 240ft?

kornbread · #**1204** Posted **Jul 18, 2008, 8:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by texboy

This would beg the question though Kornbread, what if the developers were holding back on telling us their numbers in order to get a jump on the market with their second project. What you are doing right now is purely speculating. We have heard no solid numbers from ANY of the projects going on right now in downtown. Please do not assume that just bc Vidorra II has not begun construction, that sales figures are low for this project. Just because tower two hasn't started yet, doesn't mean it won't ever. There are alot of logistical things to get through before beginning construction on a structure. For all we know they could be still in the planning stages of tower two at this point. Alot of times developers won't begin a second project (ie Koontz McCombs) until their first project is done.

I'm not sure I understand your point. It sounds like you're speculating

that sales could be going so well that Presidian doesn't want to make any announcements because of fear that others wanting to jump into the condo market will do so, taking away prospective customers. To me you get a jump on the market with inventory.

I think Presidian did their homework and that there were good reasons for deciding to start with one tower at 20 stories. Phase 2 could be in the re-planning stages. It could be planning it's way into townhomes (they seemed popular) or to the shelve. That's why projects are split into phases. Because someone isn't convinced that the need is there.

I just think with the typical building cycles that San Antonio seems to go through it won't happen soon and I see more promise in other areas for future talls.

KeepSanAntonioLame · #**1205** Posted **Jul 18, 2008, 9:37 PM**

Everyone make sure you watch KSAT tonight. They're going to do a piece on a psychic who claims he can see SA's future...

alexjon · #**1206** Posted **Jul 18, 2008, 11:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sakyle04

Is this, then, as I assumed...? Was Pearl a sort of safe introduction into the urban living scene?

New construction, new infrastructure, new shops and restaurants (obviously re-use of old but the feeling is new)....almost all of the amenities of a new suburb except you happen to live on the third floor above a Starbucks and an attorney???

More or less.

The incentive was that it was close to existing businesses without being right there. People didn't have to dive right into the presently unfamiliar manhattan style of living in a dense urban area with offices and businesses clustered about.

It's a hybrid concept, I'd say-- half "new downtown" and half suburban living. They rehabbed what was all industrial and connected it with permanent transit. The neighborhood even has its own park system and something like its own police precinct.

It trickled over into downtown very successfully.

ydoc14 · #**1207** Posted **Jul 20, 2008, 3:21 AM**

This picture was actually taken in March so it isn't really an update, but I had to link it anyway...click and you'll see why

http://flickr.com/photos/mommymoni/2681616359/

Paul in S.A TX · #**1208** Posted **Jul 20, 2008, 5:15 AM**

I Was downtown today and took a few pics.
Vistana

Embassy

EmbassyFrom Riverwalk

Misc Pics.

MAIN PLAZA

Commerce

Market St.

Found this on SAHELICOPTER. thought it was cool.

sakyle04 · #**1209** Posted **Jul 20, 2008, 1:10 PM**

nice pics (a nice update)...

(the "embassy" above is the courtyard by marriott)

Paul in S.A TX · #**1210** Posted **Jul 20, 2008, 3:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sakyle04

nice pics (a nice update)...

(the "embassy" above is the courtyard by marriott)

oh i new I was off, hah. My friends I-phone takes kinda shitty pics.

KevinFromTexas · #**1211** Posted **Jul 22, 2008, 8:16 AM**

Thanks for the pictures, Paul. The Nano and I were right there at Main Plaza, and I was pretty much standing where you were too, eating like a pig at McDonald's. lol

I'll post my pictures soon, (I promise).

Unfortunately, I didn't make it over to The Vistana. I really wish I could have. I was more pressed for time the 2nd day than I thought. I still managed to take a boat load of pictures, though. I had a lot of fun.

Paul in S.A TX · #**1212** Posted **Jul 22, 2008, 9:07 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

Thanks for the pictures, Paul. The Nano and I were right there at Main Plaza, and I was pretty much standing where you were too, eating like a pig at McDonald's. lol

I'll post my pictures soon, (I promise).

Unfortunately, I didn't make it over to The Vistana. I really wish I could have. I was more pressed for time the 2nd day than I thought. I still managed to take a boat load of pictures, though. I had a lot of fun.

Thanks Kev, I have a lot more pics, I'll try and get mine posted as well.