HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2020, 8:38 AM
Pedestrian's Avatar
Pedestrian Pedestrian is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 24,177
Super-rich elites making London 'off-limits'

Quote:
By Sean Coughlan
21 Jan

London has become the "epicentre of the elites" in the UK, making it "off limits" for young people from poorer backgrounds, says a social mobility charity.

The Sutton Trust says the high cost of housing has become a social barrier.

A report, using London School of Economics research, says social mobility is easier outside the capital.

Trust founder, Sir Peter Lampl, said the idea of going to London to "move up in the world" had become "a myth". The report says it is increasingly difficult for young people to move to London to get the high-paying jobs concentrated in the capital.

This is exacerbated by practices such as unpaid internships, which are available only to those who can afford to live and work in London without earning . . . .
https://www.bbc.com/news/education-51196849

This is probably true of a lot of high-priced "world cities".
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2020, 11:29 AM
chris08876's Avatar
chris08876 chris08876 is offline
NYC/NJ/Miami-Dade
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Riverview Estates Fairway (PA)
Posts: 45,696
Hopefully the idea of remote working or working-from-home becomes the new norm in 10-20 years. At least for a lot of office based jobs that don't require client interactions. But even with that, tech can be an asset in that respect.

London, NYC, All of California, "X = some Western City" ... you get the point... have failed to build enough housing any efforts appear futile because they lack the magnitude needed and the political will power to do so. Seems like its not being alleviated, and probally never will be unless people start rioting.

But in the meantime, remote working could help... somewhat.

I've been saying for a while that we need government funded housing, and mass government intervention with regards to zoning. These units need to be forced down the throats of the communities. In walkable neighborhoods or next to mass transit corridors, it needs to be forced. We need less community input in general, less political power from the residents that seem to stifle growth.

The Chinese get this, when it comes to housing. It could be done, but the West is not thinking about its people or the long term. This is only going to spiral even deeper, so I pity the future generations.


Quote:
"Those that benefit most from opportunities in London were either born there or are the economically privileged from other parts of the country," said Sir Peter.

"London is essentially off-limits to ambitious people from poorer backgrounds who grow up outside the capital."
You don't say?




Quote:
This is exacerbated by practices such as unpaid internships, which are available only to those who can afford to live and work in London without earning . . . .
Unpaid internships are just another way of having slaves in the work place. This needs to become illegal. Everywhere really.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2020, 12:24 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 30,551
Long-term, Brexit will help with this. Going forward, an increasing share of these elite jobs will be based on the Continent.

Extremely expensive cities are quite accessible to young singles, obviously. They share tiny apartments, and have few expenses outside of shelter, phone and food (and the last two are frequently subsidized by employer).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2020, 12:25 PM
dc_denizen's Avatar
dc_denizen dc_denizen is offline
Selfie-stick vendor
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: New York Suburbs
Posts: 10,999
Nobody goes there anymore, it’s too crowded
__________________
Joined the bus on the 33rd seat
By the doo-doo room with the reek replete
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2020, 12:27 PM
dc_denizen's Avatar
dc_denizen dc_denizen is offline
Selfie-stick vendor
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: New York Suburbs
Posts: 10,999
Still there a research topic somewhere on the economic forces in the commonwealth countries like Canada , Australia, and the uk that differentiate them from the us and continental Europe, most notably their role as asset safe havens and moneyed immigration destinations
__________________
Joined the bus on the 33rd seat
By the doo-doo room with the reek replete
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2020, 3:45 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 9,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Long-term, Brexit will help with this. Going forward, an increasing share of these elite jobs will be based on the Continent.

Extremely expensive cities are quite accessible to young singles, obviously. They share tiny apartments, and have few expenses outside of shelter, phone and food (and the last two are frequently subsidized by employer).
I wouldn't be surprised if the problem became worse because of Brexit. If the U.K. does not participate in the single European market post-Brexit, it may have to position itself as a tax haven.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2020, 4:33 PM
tdawg's Avatar
tdawg tdawg is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Astoria, NY
Posts: 2,935
This article from today's NYTimes about changes in The Marais in Paris feels a little relevant to me.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/22/w...ification.html
__________________
From my head via my fingers.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2020, 10:35 PM
10023's Avatar
10023 10023 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 21,146
Expensive city is expensive. More at 11.
__________________
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2020, 10:26 AM
Jonesy55 Jonesy55 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
Still there a research topic somewhere on the economic forces in the commonwealth countries like Canada , Australia, and the uk that differentiate them from the us and continental Europe, most notably their role as asset safe havens and moneyed immigration destinations
You don't get rich people moving to the US?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2020, 11:52 AM
dc_denizen's Avatar
dc_denizen dc_denizen is offline
Selfie-stick vendor
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: New York Suburbs
Posts: 10,999
not as much
__________________
Joined the bus on the 33rd seat
By the doo-doo room with the reek replete
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2020, 3:53 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 9,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post
You don't get rich people moving to the US?
It definitely happens. For instance, the Russian oligarchs were plowing a lot of money into the U.S. to hide from their government before the Crimea incident. That cooled off a lot when the Obama administration started freezing their assets in order to put pressure on the Russian government to return control of Crimea to Ukraine.

Saudis and other oil rich countries also like to stash money into U.S. real estate, but I think Saudis prefer the U.S. while other Middle Easterners seem to like the U.K. Rich Chinese probably have a preference for Canada as their safe haven. I don't think you see the ostentatious displays of wealth by Chinese nationals in the U.S. like you sometimes see in places like Vancouver.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2020, 7:58 PM
Pedestrian's Avatar
Pedestrian Pedestrian is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 24,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post
You don't get rich people moving to the US?
It may well be more difficult. Certainly the very rich (as well as the not so rich) can buy property--vacation/2nd, 3rd etc homes--in the US and come and spend time in them through the usual visitor programs (or send their kids as students on student visas) for limited periods of time, and well-known resorts or destination cities are full of such properties and, in season, their owners.

But in terms of immigration--moving to the US to make it a permanent residence with the ability to work or engage in business--it's hard and getting harder.

Quote:
Jul 24, 2019, 02:24am
New Rule Raises U.S. Immigrant Investor Requirement To $900,000
Andy J. Semotiuk Contributor

The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) just published a final rule that raised the minimum investment requirement under the EB-5 Immigrant Investor Program, from $ 500,000 to $900,000 U.S. The vast majority of foreign investors choose this route usually involving an approved regional center project where the funds are placed at risk in a commercial project for a period of about five years. The change will mean that foreign investors will need to adjust to the higher $900,000 amount. The less popular standard minimum investment level will also increase from $1 million to $1.8 million. Under this option, foreign investors invest in their own EB5 projects where they maintain control of their funds. In either case, the investment must create a minimum of 10 new jobs and will become effective on Nov. 21, 2019. This is the first increase in these amounts since 1990. The final rule also provides that the minimum investment amounts will automatically adjust for inflation every five years . . . .
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andyjse.../#660fd2145748

And there is more critical examination of these investments to be certain they do create the jobs they claim.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2020, 8:04 PM
Pedestrian's Avatar
Pedestrian Pedestrian is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 24,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Saudis and other oil rich countries also like to stash money into U.S. real estate, but I think Saudis prefer the U.S. while other Middle Easterners seem to like the U.K. Rich Chinese probably have a preference for Canada as their safe haven. I don't think you see the ostentatious displays of wealth by Chinese nationals in the U.S. like you sometimes see in places like Vancouver.
A wealthy Saudi or anyone who "stashes money" in a multi-milliion $ Vail ski lodge or New York townhouse still can't stay in it (or the US) for longer than his I-94 entry permit allows, usually 6 months for each visit.

I live in an area where many Canadians own vacation/winter homes but few year-round Canadian residents. They are "snow birds". They come for less than 6 months in the winter--each year--then go home.

So these people are not "permaenent residents" of the US and are not allowed to work or do business in the US.

The Chinese, of course, "prefer" Canada because they have a connection to Hong Kong when it was a UK territory. I'm not sure what the rules are currently concerning persons who were Hong Kong residents before the transition vs those who only came there after and those who got Hong Kong credentials but never really lived there (I've read there are a lot of those). We certainly have hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of Chinese students in the US, most of whom come from wealthy families because they get no financial aid and, unlike American students, have to pay full tuition and living expenses in the US. Student visas have different rules than others and may allow staying longer as long as the person is in school and has documents from the school saying so.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2020, 8:22 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 30,551
There are plenty of foreign rich in the U.S., but the difference is that the U.S. residency rules aren't structured as tax/wealth haven or jurisdictional shield for foreign malfeasance. Other countries, like the UK, are. The foreign rich are in the U.S. for business or family purposes. Some Qatari royal trying to hide from legal/financial consequences is better off domiciled elsewhere.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2020, 8:29 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 9,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
A wealthy Saudi or anyone who "stashes money" in a multi-milliion $ Vail ski lodge or New York townhouse still can't stay in it (or the US) for longer than his I-94 entry permit allows, usually 6 months for each visit.

I live in an area where many Canadians own vacation/winter homes but few year-round Canadian residents. They are "snow birds". They come for less than 6 months in the winter--each year--then go home.

So these people are not "permaenent residents" of the US and are not allowed to work or do business in the US.
If you're spending tens of millions of dollars on Manhattan condos or Vail ski houses, obtaining a U.S. visa is probably not an issue. There is a visa specifically for foreign investors to obtain legal resident status in the U.S.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-5_visa
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2020, 8:46 PM
Chef's Avatar
Chef Chef is offline
Paradise Island
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,444
The difference between the US and the UK or France is that the US has so many large cities that if the cosmopolitan elite are making New York, San Francisco, LA or Miami too expensive people can just move somewhere else.

New York doesn't dominate the US the way London does the UK.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2020, 1:02 AM
Pedestrian's Avatar
Pedestrian Pedestrian is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 24,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
If you're spending tens of millions of dollars on Manhattan condos or Vail ski houses, obtaining a U.S. visa is probably not an issue. There is a visa specifically for foreign investors to obtain legal resident status in the U.S.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-5_visa
If you read just above (I assume you didn't), I posted the details of the investor visa program and recent changes making it tougher. But what really makes it tougher, as I pointed out already, is much tougher scrutiny of whether the claimed job creation actually happens. There have been a number of projects under the earlier version of this program that flopped and created few or no jobs and political leaders are getting annoyed.

Quote:
Bad actors force reform of fraud-plagued EB-5 investor program
BY KIM RILEY | AUGUST 29, 2019 | CITY

Fraud and abuse in the EB-5 Immigrant Investor Program are largely responsible for the recently published final rule in the Federal Register that makes sweeping changes to the program.

U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS), which is overseen by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS), in late July issued the final rule, marking the first major overhaul of the fifth employment-based preference (EB-5) immigrant visa category.

“The rules bring much needed reforms to the fraud-stricken EB-5 investor visa program,” U.S. Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) recently told Transportation Today . . . .

The ongoing deception in the program, the senator said, points to movement away from its original congressional intent to generate increased U.S. capital investment in economically distressed communities and rural areas around the nation — known as Targeted Employment Areas (TEAs).

What’s been happening is that the EB-5 program has mostly benefited wealthier areas where developer-led gerrymandering — achieved by packaging adjoining Census tracts to create the impression of a TEA — has allowed them to obtain foreign investment, largely from China. “For the better part of a decade, I’ve raised concerns about how the EB-5 program has been abused to steer investment away from rural America,” said Sen. Grassley.

Bad actors have taken advantage of the fact that states have leeway in defining a TEA, a policy gap that the senator says has allowed them to draw maps that define TEAs to conveniently cover wherever they wanted to build another skyscraper . . . .
https://transportationtodaynews.com/...estor-program/

But beyond this type of abuse, too many projects under this program have turned out to just be boondogles or flops.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2020, 1:05 AM
Pedestrian's Avatar
Pedestrian Pedestrian is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 24,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chef View Post
The difference between the US and the UK or France is that the US has so many large cities that if the cosmopolitan elite are making New York, San Francisco, LA or Miami too expensive people can just move somewhere else.

New York doesn't dominate the US the way London does the UK.
I don't think the really wealthy want to be anywhere other than international cities or communities--famous resorts, business centers etc. One circumstance that may spread some of the interest is education. Plenty of San Francisco condos are owned by wealthy Asians as places for their KIDS to stay while in school. This can happen anywhere there's a school (college, university or even sometimes secondary) that attracts foreigners.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2020, 10:24 AM
nito nito is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Long-term, Brexit will help with this. Going forward, an increasing share of these elite jobs will be based on the Continent.

Extremely expensive cities are quite accessible to young singles, obviously. They share tiny apartments, and have few expenses outside of shelter, phone and food (and the last two are frequently subsidized by employer).
Brexit is going to unreservedly do significant harm to parts of the UK economy that are focused on single industries and/or goods, principally old mining/seaside towns in the north, but London is a service/knowledge-based economy that is far better insulated from the fallout. The core reasons why people do business in London in the first place (legal code, language, talent pool, connectivity, infrastructure, etc…) remain, there wasn’t a consolidated single market for services, and the focus of London’s service is in general globally focused due to the small domestic market.


The biggest current and long-term threat to the ongoing prosperity of London (and most world cities I would argue) is the immense pressures on housing affordability and access to job markets. If people can’t live close to their work or the commute becomes unviable then something will give which could easily undo the agglomeration benefits that make cities like London so successful in the first place.

In London’s instance, the pressure relief has come from outward migration of young couples/families to the commuter towns that radiate out across the Home Counties and beyond. People take the option of a longer commute in favour of a larger and cheaper home. Improvements in rolling stock, more frequent and faster services, onboard WiFi, new stations have compensated for the lack of development to keep up with the booming population in the city. Crossrail will bring a further 1.5 million people to within 45mins of central London. With HS2, Birmingham will be closer to London than White Plains (MNR) or Hicksville (LIRR) are to New York. Those and other projects will have substantial benefits to enable commutes from further afield. The key however will be a massive ramp up in development, tens of thousands of new residential units each year, but that won’t be easy to get through without a collective effort.
__________________
London Transport Thread updated: 2023_07_12 | London Stadium & Arena Thread updated: 2022_03_09
London General Update Thread updated: 2019_04_03 | High Speed 2 updated: 2021_09_24
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2020, 2:15 PM
montréaliste montréaliste is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Chambly, Quebec
Posts: 1,996
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
not as much
57th street skyneedles, oh wait! All these folks from Poughkeepsie elbowing in...
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:39 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.