Portland Streetcar News

[soleri]

Originally Posted by pdxtraveler

Not quite sure I follow. The Streetcar has had a huge effect. Most of downtown and the Pearls development is on the the route. The new huge Lloyd super development, the Burnside Bridgehead.....

I'd be a bit reticent to ascribe that to the streetcar. Obviously, it hasn't hurt but it would be impossible to make that the primary reason. Lloyd, in particular, has excellent transit with the Max lines. A streetcar several blocks away seems rather marginal. Ditto for downtown. Burnside Bridgehead's projects have excellent street and highway connectivity, which since vastly more people drive than take the streetcar seems a bit more relevant in terms of "effect".

Those of us on this forum want to believe the streetcar is a kind of urban panacea. I'm happy it's there and relatively popular. But I don't want to confuse wishful thinking with implacable facts. The streetcar is not a game changer yet.

[maccoinnich]

Yes, but all those facts about the Lloyd district and the Burnside bridgehead have been true for decades, and yet no significant amount of residential development has happened. And then within 2 years of the streetcar opening, there are over 1,000 units under construction / in for permit, including two 20+ story buildings (with no change in zoning to make them possible). Is it all the streetcar? Of course not. But to ascribe nothing to it is some Cascade Policy Institute level of denial.

[maccoinnich]

Originally Posted by hat

"I'm not disputing the ridership benefits of streetcars. Streetcars do attract more ridership than the buses they replace, though it's not always clear why. There's an urgent need for more research on how much of the ridership benefits of a streetcar are truly results of intrinsic benefits of the streetcar (such as the ride quality, the legibility provided by tracks in the street, etc) as opposed to results of other improvements introduced at the same time (including speed and reliability improvements, better public information, off-board fare collection, and possible differences in operations culture)."

OK, that is reasonably measured. OTOH, from one of his comments left on Portland Transport (emphasis mine):

If the Portland Streetcar were designed to function as a reliable and useful transit service, which would mean exclusive lanes where needed and the very high frequency that’s needed to be relevant to short trips, it would be a much better exemplar of the outcomes you describe. Unfortunately, most details of our streetcar’s design not only lack those features but in some cases preclude them without an extensive rebuild.

It's tough to understand how he can claim that the Portland Streetcar isn't "reliable and useful" when it gets higher ridership per mile than any other transit system in the TriMet service area.

I am struck also by how often the streetcar is promoted as having a valid role in the context of an imaginary abundance of transit alternatives, as you do here. This is the dream-city language of development marketing, and it is utterly divorced from the realities of transportation in this city of limited resources and narrowly focused leadership. Portland is a city where the citywide transit system was utterly devastated by budget cuts in the late 2000s, and where the transit agency’s level of service, in the most optimistic of scenarios, will take years to get back to where it was 10 years ago. Remember, the all-day frequencies on many major Portland bus lines are worse today than they were in 1982.

For someone who is a transit professional living in Portland, it's surprising that he doesn't seem to be aware that a) TriMet has already restored almost all the service cut during the recession, and b) the streetcar is funded by TriMet at the same rate they would pay for frequent bus service. Unless he's trying to make the point that it's not legitimate to provide any transit service to the densest parts of the entire state, then the streetcar isn't stealing any operations money that could be used elsewhere.

[davehogan]

Originally Posted by soleri

I'd be a bit reticent to ascribe that to the streetcar. Obviously, it hasn't hurt but it would be impossible to make that the primary reason. Lloyd, in particular, has excellent transit with the Max lines. A streetcar several blocks away seems rather marginal. Ditto for downtown. Burnside Bridgehead's projects have excellent street and highway connectivity, which since vastly more people drive than take the streetcar seems a bit more relevant in terms of "effect".

Those of us on this forum want to believe the streetcar is a kind of urban panacea. I'm happy it's there and relatively popular. But I don't want to confuse wishful thinking with implacable facts. The streetcar is not a game changer yet.

Didn't the development company behind 8th Hassalo (or whatever it's called) specifically cite the new CL streetcar as a reason they decided to start with that? The easy access to the Pearl via the Streetcar I'm pretty sure came up.

The MAX was also cited as a reason I think, but the Streetcar isn't a bad amenity if we want to concentrate some density downtown instead of spreading it out as much.

[bvpcvm]

Was just reading up on the current streetcar construction: the changes around the Jasmine block. I was under the impression the new track would cut diagonally across the block (this was the original plan), although without a concrete redevelopment project in planning, that wouldn't make a lot of sense. So, as it turns out, the new track doesn't cut across the block at all:

[soleri]

Originally Posted by davehogan

Didn't the development company behind 8th Hassalo (or whatever it's called) specifically cite the new CL streetcar as a reason they decided to start with that? The easy access to the Pearl via the Streetcar I'm pretty sure came up.

The MAX was also cited as a reason I think, but the Streetcar isn't a bad amenity if we want to concentrate some density downtown instead of spreading it out as much.

I understand the attractiveness of the idea. While you can't quantify sexy, you can at least market it. Portland's crunchy appeal is magnified by the streetcar, to be sure.

The trouble is that it can't be used as a post-hoc rationale for growth in a few parts of Portland. There is simply no data to support this. There are anecdotes and marketing but that is not the same thing. Nor does correlation equal causation, our wishful thinking notwithstanding.

I am, btw, an ardent urbanist. I don't own a car. I haven't voted for a Republican in the past two decades. I despise the anti-environmental thuggery on the right. And I desire with all my heart for Portland to become emblematic of everything that is decent, humane, and wonderful about cities.

That doesn't mean I have turned my values into a church where our dogma can never be questioned, however. I'm not going to be a liberal version of a right-wing hack. Something is either true or it isn't. I want the streetcars to be successful. But I don't want that desire to turn me into a lying shill.

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by bvpcvm

Was just reading up on the current streetcar construction: the changes around the Jasmine block. I was under the impression the new track would cut diagonally across the block (this was the original plan), although without a concrete redevelopment project in planning, that wouldn't make a lot of sense. So, as it turns out, the new track doesn't cut across the block at all:

That is better than it currently is, though it looks like they still have that point where the tracks cross over into one track. I figured the city would try to buy some of the Jasmine Block so the tracks could run parallel to each other without crossing them.

[65MAX]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

That is better than it currently is, though it looks like they still have that point where the tracks cross over into one track. I figured the city would try to buy some of the Jasmine Block so the tracks could run parallel to each other without crossing them.

Actually, that small sliver of shared track is no different (functionally) than where the streetcar crosses paths at 10th and Market. It also crosses twice on the eastside, at Grand and Weidler and Grand and Oregon. It's just like every other traffic light that the streetcar passes through.

[maccoinnich]

If the track had gone diagonally through the block, it still would have had to cross over. There's no way to avoid it, without completely changing the route through that part of downtown.

[cailes]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

That is better than it currently is, though it looks like they still have that point where the tracks cross over into one track. I figured the city would try to buy some of the Jasmine Block so the tracks could run parallel to each other without crossing them.

As best as I can tell that one pinch point is going to remain because making it a pair of tracks through there would require tearing up 5th Ave. Probably a bit disruptive compared to tearing up 4th & Montgomery.

[maccoinnich]

The "pinch point" is so that the tracks can cross. This would have happened whatever layout they chose for the realignment.

[maccoinnich]

Jasmine Block Update

by Curtis Ailes on September 10, 2014 in Streetcar



Work continues on the Jasmine Block double track work. This week, crews have completed the saw cut in 4th Avenue and yesterday, track was being positioned for tie down.

...continues at Portland Transport.

[cailes]

Operations have resumed south of 10th & Clay. I haven't rode through the new double track area yet, but it LOOKS really nice now.

[maccoinnich]

The Portland streetcar, which is not "reliable and useful transit service" according to Jarrett Walker, is now getting just over 20,000 riders a day:

Portland Streetcar Ridership Blows Past 2025 Projections with 20,011 Weekday Riders

The latest ridership numbers are in and continue to show growth in the system. In 2005, as part of an application for a Federal Small Starts Grant, Metro modeled Portland Streetcar ridership for the year 2025, 10 years after the completed Central Loop line was set to open across the Tilikum Crossing. The modeling showed predicted ridership for the current 14.7 mile alignment at 18,080 and predictions for the full Central Loop alignment at 20,115 by the year 2025. Ridership numbers in 2014 have already exceeded those predictions with 18,535 riders in April, May and June 2014 and 20,011 in July, August and September 2014. These latest numbers came within roughly 100 riders per day of surpassing the projections for 2025, a full 11 years and an opening ahead of schedule.



Portland Streetcar is now operating with trains every 14 minutes during weekdays and has a full complement of vehicles for the first time in years. The ridership estimates are derived from sampling and are presented with a margin of error. Portland Streetcar is installing Automatic Passenger Counters on its vehicles this fall and will have more accurate station-level data beginning in January 2015.

[downtownpdx]

Awesome news, I really had no idea it was doing that well, but of course every time I see one it's full, at least downtown.

[redbeard]

I've noticed a significant increase in how full the trains are this summer, especially during commuting hours. I've also been surprised at the number of people on trains though at around 9-10pm. It's substantially more than even a couple years ago.

Walking around the pearl frequently, with the two lines running at the same time the streetcar really has a much bigger presence in the area - I'm sure the same can be said for other areas were both lines are running down the same track.

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by maccoinnich

The Portland streetcar, which is not "reliable and useful transit service" according to Jarrett Walker, is now getting just over 20,000 riders a day:

That is great news, I can't wait till we start expanding our streetcar system off the loop and into different neighborhoods. The streetcar really should be the rail transit for the city of Portland, with the Light Rail be used as the rail transit for the metro.

[65MAX]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

That is great news, I can't wait till we start expanding our streetcar system off the loop and into different neighborhoods. The streetcar really should be the rail transit for the city of Portland, with the Light Rail be used as the rail transit for the metro.

Which is exactly why the MAX needs to "act" like a Metro system downtown and not a glorified Streetcar with 2-3-4 block station spacing. Regardless of whether you believe there will be a subway or not, at a bare minimum, we need to eliminate and/or consolidate a lot of the stops downtown.

[dubu]

we need more light rail in clackamas county and washington county.

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by 65MAX

Which is exactly why the MAX needs to "act" like a Metro system downtown and not a glorified Streetcar with 2-3-4 block station spacing. Regardless of whether you believe there will be a subway or not, at a bare minimum, we need to eliminate and/or consolidate a lot of the stops downtown.

Which stops should be eliminated? The problem is all it would do is shave off a few minutes, and the MAX is designed for downtown to be the focal point, so there isn't any need to reduce the commute time through downtown. There are a couple of unneeded stops on the east/west lines, but they do stop at key places which makes them worth having. The north/south line actually have great spacing and wouldn't need to change anything.