Perimeter Highway | Winnipeg - Page 161

Biff · #**3201** Posted **Jan 17, 2022, 7:35 PM**

Not enough repeat business jobs.

Where other jurisdictions will run multiple projects a year, we seem to run projects consecutively...usually with years in between. 2 Interchange projects in what - 20 years?

Hard to keep operations going if you don't win the bid on the next job. It could be 4 or 5 years in between opportunities.

bomberjet · #**3202** Posted **Jan 17, 2022, 8:02 PM**

There is also the current construction racket to contend with. If you catch my drift. For the more regular mundane works which keep your crews going.

BlackDog204 · #**3203** Posted **Jan 18, 2022, 3:40 AM**

Even if the Province has to build diamond interchanges, just get er done.

The Whitemud and Anthony Henday are so fun to drive on in comparison. There is something to be said for limited access highways.

esquire · #**3204** Posted **Jan 18, 2022, 1:02 PM**

I don't think you could ever make driving on the Perimeter "fun", I'm more concerned with the safety hazard of having traffic lights on such a busy, high-speed route.

thewave46 · #**3205** Posted **Jan 18, 2022, 1:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

I don't think you could ever make driving on the Perimeter "fun", I'm more concerned with the safety hazard of having traffic lights on such a busy, high-speed route.

Yeah, ‘fun’ is kind of an odd thing for the Perimeter, unless wondering if someone is going to blow a light at 100 km/h is fun.

Busy urban freeways require one to pay attention, so maybe that’s it? Then again, plenty of people drive on cruise control on major freeways, figuratively speaking.

I agree with you - the volume of traffic the Perimeter now handles pretty much mandates that major intersections should have interchanges now in the name of safety.

bomberjet · #**3206** Posted **Jan 18, 2022, 2:38 PM**

If the Perimeter was a freeway, it would be a much nicer experience driving. Not some relaxing oasis. But much better than what it is now.

optimusREIM · #**3207** Posted **Jan 18, 2022, 3:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

I don't think you could ever make driving on the Perimeter "fun", I'm more concerned with the safety hazard of having traffic lights on such a busy, high-speed route.

Safety is important, but functionality and user experience matters too. There are many reasons to upgrade the perimeter.

pacman · #**3208** Posted **Jan 18, 2022, 8:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by plrh

Well Borland is currently for sale, I heard. That would be an easy way to get in here.

Word on the street is Maple Leaf is the roadworks partner with AECON for St Mary's.

Also, industry talk is Borland has been for sale but no takers for the whole operation. Likely splitting off a division or two if they can with remaining assets going to auction once the dust settles.

1ajs · #**3209** Posted **Jan 18, 2022, 9:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pacman

Also, industry talk is Borland has been for sale but no takers for the whole operation. Likely splitting off a division or two if they can with remaining assets going to auction once the dust settles.

why are they selling them selfs?

pacman · #**3210** Posted **Jan 18, 2022, 9:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ajs

why are they selling them selfs?

Not too familiar so don't take it as gospel... my understanding is Borger family owns Ladco and Borland. Borland is big and does lots of outside work but essentially exists to be the roadwork contractor for Ladco. Borger family prioritizes Ladco and wants to get out of the roadwork industry because roadwork economics in Manitoba don't make sense to carry such a big in-house operation when they can contract out their work to other players in town and eliminate the headaches.

plrh · #**3211** Posted **Jan 19, 2022, 4:37 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pacman

Word on the street is Maple Leaf is the roadworks partner with AECON for St Mary's.

Also, industry talk is Borland has been for sale but no takers for the whole operation. Likely splitting off a division or two if they can with remaining assets going to auction once the dust settles.

Thanks, that's what I was looking for. I thought it was kinda weird that Maple Leaf and PCL didn't make it to the final cut, since they have had some success in the past as Plenary Roads.

bomberjet · #**3212** Posted **Jan 19, 2022, 4:44 AM**

Is there a list of groups who submitted at the RFQ stage for St. Mary's? I assume it's on MERX. But again I do not have access.

I assume Plenary didn't go after this one. Plenary is mostly after P3 type projects, where they can finance, own and maintain for 30 years. DB(O)FM contracts. Plenary is a large company who basically finances projects and is based out of the USA. Not a JV type thing like these other consortiums.

I also assume PCL would've went after St. Mary's as Prime Contractor. Design-Builds typically work that way. Contractor led, as there is no financing.

On the BRT project, PCL used Bituminex and Borland primarily. I don't know if they used Maple Leaf at all.

Maple Leaf at the time was Prime Contractor on the Waverley Underpass. Which is also odd. Not usually a roads contractor as Prime Contractor. Usually bridge contractor but doesn't really matter. I believe that is the first large project of the type that Maple Leaf led.

WildCake · #**3213** Posted **Jan 19, 2022, 5:15 AM**

The more I think of it the more I'm baffled by the 135 mil price tag. The 59/101 interchange clocked in at 275 million based on the last press release I could find from a quick Google search (Winnipeg Sun, 2018). That was done only 4 years ago, and consisted of 11 bridges, traffic management on two major highways, and consisted of way more miles of road reconstruction on top of that.

How is the one bridge, some minor rerouting of perimeter, and a few kms of two lane greenfield realignment of St Marys being priced at half of that.

Wpgstvsouth94 · #**3214** Posted **Jan 19, 2022, 6:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildCake

The more I think of it the more I'm baffled by the 135 mil price tag. The 59/101 interchange clocked in at 275 million based on the last press release I could find from a quick Google search (Winnipeg Sun, 2018). That was done only 4 years ago, and consisted of 11 bridges, traffic management on two major highways, and consisted of way more miles of road reconstruction on top of that.

How is the one bridge, some minor rerouting of perimeter, and a few kms of two lane greenfield realignment of St Marys being priced at half of that.

St Mary’s and st Anne’s could both get built with that price tag IMO. Maybe even the rail over pass.

bomberjet · #**3215** Posted **Jan 19, 2022, 2:11 PM**

I think they're rebuilding the main highway lanes completely. Build new WB lanes, remove old lanes and build new EB lanes.

The more I think about it, there's a lot of roadway. St. Mary's is being re-routed to the south. The ramps and funny round-abouts. 59 had a lot of highway work too. Also a lot more bridges. It is what it is at this point. That's why it's always cheaper to build now then say 60 years in the future..

Biff · #**3216** Posted **Jan 19, 2022, 3:17 PM**

I was told before the construction budget estimate was around $75m. The $135m price caught me off guard as well. Normally a project like this would not proceed if there was a discrepancy that great between estimate and bid results. I am not sure what the deal is here.

esquire · #**3217** Posted **Jan 19, 2022, 3:28 PM**

At $135 m for a diamond interchange, this will probably be the first and last such project for an entire generation. Just wait for the imminent announcements of new roundabouts at the remaining intersections on the Perimeter /s

pacman · #**3218** Posted **Jan 19, 2022, 4:29 PM**

Not sure what the 135 million number includes because the AECON bid was 96 million and change. Maybe the province is including all costs like expropriation, utilities, contingency, financing, etc...? Anything else anyone can think of?

Also, the construction estimate I had heard for this apples to apples scope was 95 million so the low bid was pretty much bang on.

Last tidbit... second bidder above AECON's 96 million was 158 million so AECON left a pile on this job (although they're right at estimate)

plrh · #**3219** Posted **Jan 19, 2022, 5:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pacman

Not sure what the 135 million number includes because the AECON bid was 96 million and change. Maybe the province is including all costs like expropriation, utilities, contingency, financing, etc...? Anything else anyone can think of?

Also, the construction estimate I had heard for this apples to apples scope was 95 million so the low bid was pretty much bang on.

Last tidbit... second bidder above AECON's 96 million was 158 million so AECON left a pile on this job (although they're right at estimate)

I'm sure they missed something. Both of the other bidders were right there together. It happens all the time, and is much more likely to happen on a Design Build, because there is no item list. I think you are probably right with your guess on the the other $39M.

1ajs · #**3220** Posted **Jan 19, 2022, 5:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biff

I was told before the construction budget estimate was around $75m. The $135m price caught me off guard as well. Normally a project like this would not proceed if there was a discrepancy that great between estimate and bid results. I am not sure what the deal is here.

everything has gone up.

lynn lake water plant saw its budget go from 4million to 7 after the lowest bid was 7million

province is having lots of issues with costs spiking on bids in the last yr