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  #41  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 3:11 PM
Leo the Dog Leo the Dog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Dan Gilbert doesn't know a thing about urban planning, and is not saving Detroit.

He's putting lots of money and employees in Detroit, but there is no net gain overall. He's just relocating people from one location to another.

Dan Gilbert will be on CNBC - Squawk Box tomorrow morning (10/22).

The commercial for it mentioned all the good things he's doing for Detroit.

Should be interesting for Clevelanders/Detroiters.
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  #42  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2014, 10:22 AM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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Originally Posted by simms3_redux View Post
I doubt he is robbing Peter to pay Paul like you are charging.

For one, Gilbert as an individual high net worth investor with clout likely creates or participates in special purpose entities that individually control each of his real estate holdings. Two, most of these SPEs are likely completely separate from each other.

The bank analogy is actually relevant. If he uses financing, for instance for the Cleveland casino, I highly doubt the lender is going to request that the asset(s) backing one of his other SPEs serves as some sort of collateral, or that another SPE serve as a guarantor. He personally might guaranty the loan, in which case his personal returns/interests from the collection of all of his investments and holdings (from Detroit, Cleveland, wherever, his existing bank accounts, etc etc) that serve as his net worth might be used to guaranty an individual loan. But then he would be separate from his own SPEs as well.

At the end of the day, however he has set up all of his holdings (and whether they are wholly owned by some entity exclusively controlled/owned by Gilbert, or a collection of investors, which is more likely), once earnings have legally and appropriately flowed through an SPE all the way up the chain into Gilbert's bank account, so long as he isn't breaking any lender financial covenants he can use his own money however damn well he pleases. He can find new investments. He can throw additional money into old investments (whether they be in Cleveland or Detroit), etc etc.

Gilbert has set up a legal controlling entity of the casino in Cleveland that is far more removed from his own personal bank accounts than you are giving him credit for. And nobody Fs with major city/state governments without knowing and accounting for all of those repercussions. I give him the full benefit of the doubt that there is no funny business going on, until proven guilty (and your "feelings" are not proof of anything).
yes and at the end of the end of that day (lol!) gilbert is profiting off of cleveland and you are trying to hide him behind his corporate holdings and buracracy to absolve him. he is clearly in charge. he has a legal obligation to build out the casino in full. he has not done so. by all accounts he has no intention of doing so. so no feels, those are the facts.
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  #43  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2014, 11:14 AM
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MayDay MayDay is offline
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^I know you don't use capital letters, but I might suggest the following for starters: IMHO
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  #44  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2014, 3:43 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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Originally Posted by MayDay View Post
^I know you don't use capital letters, but I might suggest the following for starters: IMHO
and i know you are very naive, but maybe he will build it someday...

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  #45  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2014, 10:52 AM
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MayDay MayDay is offline
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Nope, not naive nor the biggest fan of Gilbert's antics or the timeline on Phase II. I just get tired of those who claim to speak for "most Clevelanders" and who post their opinion and speculation as fact and anyone who isn't in lockstep is a full-fledged apologist. I also don't understand projecting beefs on others like simms3 - "gilbert is profiting off of cleveland and you are trying to hide him behind his corporate holdings and buracracy to absolve him" I wasn't aware simms3 was personally in charge of Gilbert's operations and PR.

I don't know if/when he'll build Phase II - we both agree his track record locally isn't stellar, and at some point there needs to be repercussions if he doesn't follow through. That said, do you have a notarized and signed letter (knowing Gilbert, probably in Comic Sans) where he states everything you've suggested?
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  #46  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2014, 10:06 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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^ nope, no opinion here, just fact. there is no phase II. has nothing to do with gilberts personal wealth or the corporate holdings that he leads outside of his unfulfilled legal obligation.

and below is your signed/notarized letter from gilbert along with a list of clevelanders, detrioters and the dali lama who think he is ever going to build it out: *insert blank page here*
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  #47  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2014, 1:21 AM
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PoshSteve PoshSteve is offline
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Mrnyc, I really do share your frustration over Gilbert/RockOhio (so far) not keeping their promise on phase two for the casino. I would not go on to say he hasnt done anything for Cleveland though. While the profits from the casino may or may not go back to Detroit, dont forget all the people who now have jobs there (and I really wont debate the quality of the jobs, but i believe any job is better than no job at all). Also, back when he bought the Cavs, he opened a Quickens office downtown and moved a few hundred jobs from Detroit here, bringing some nice life to the old Post Office Building. While it certainly isnt on the same scale as his hometown endeavors, I think that shows some pretty nice commitment to downtown Cleveland.
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  #48  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2014, 10:57 AM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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^ i know but lets be clear, the casino jobs would exist no matter who obtained the rights to run it and the call center jobs are there as a wise pr ploy to smooth over a carpetbagger coming to town when he took over the cavs. however, you are right, the jobs are a good thing no matter what. gilbert seems to be doing well financially and so is the casino, so maybe the state will come down on him to fulfill his phase II casino buildout commitment someday, we can only hope.
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  #49  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2014, 9:51 PM
Larry King Larry King is offline
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Christ enough about cleveland and their casino. Who gives a shit
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  #50  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2014, 9:59 PM
hudkina hudkina is offline
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LOL. I know.
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  #51  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2014, 1:37 PM
montréaliste montréaliste is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry King View Post
Christ enough about cleveland and their casino. Who gives a shit
I was hoping I could keep on being polite...and youse magically granted my wish!
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  #52  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2014, 3:38 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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hi larry, first time caller.

glad to hear you are so not interested in midwest issues out there in philly. and in montreal.

looking forward to your insightful remarks on other threads you are not interested in.

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  #53  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2014, 4:49 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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and so it begins...!


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Dan Gilbert renews pledge second casino will be built, but no firm date, 1 license 2 casinos. # wkyc
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  #54  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2014, 6:16 AM
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jodelli jodelli is offline
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As far as the 7.2 goes, Detroit would come in at 36,000.

That core would fall between the cities of London UK at 1 sq mi with 7400 people and Sydney NSW at 17 sq mi with 170,000 people.

just a thought...
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