"New West" Does Not Include Manitoba; Province Seen as an Economic Weakling

[IntotheWest]

Greco/Pegcityboy - I see where you're coming from, as the article does mention Calgary how many times? BUT, at the same time - the writer still throws a few comments in that would make it seem that Calgary is still a redneck hickville - which it isn't (but hey, slowly shedding its image).

I don't think anywhere in the article though, it paints a bad picture of Winnipeg...it does make the comment of getting "it" when it comes to the arts (though, typical of Easterners - and a lot of forumers - ignores that Calgary and Alberta's "western" art culture is more than redneck rodeos).

Anyway - as for the "content" of the article...the ideas will never float. And, the talk of the western provinces just living in the moment shows a lack of understanding...there are plenty of projects going on in the 4 western provinces that are focused on future and sustainability.

As for the University comments - I thought UBC and U of A were tops in certain areas? U of M even is quite good. The older universities in the east (and in MUCH larger centers, that have been established for years) will likely always draw more attention...the amount of money it would take to be "ranked" higher then them wouldn't be likely worth it in the end. If you really want to study at McGill or Waterloo - go there then. And then come work in the West :-)

[socialisthorde]

Good points. I do like the idea of thinking beyond here and now though. I agree that the western provinces are doing some of this, but it is fairly recent and more of it wouldn't hurt. I also agree that most of the ideas floated in the article are not practical, but it is a good way to start discussion. Finally, I also agree that UBC and U of A, and to a lesser extent the other western Universities are well recognized However, they tend to have different specializations and more cooperation wouldn't hurt. The recent decision by the U of C to open a Veterinary college instead of continuing to cooperate with the U of S is one example of where a more unified approach might help. Another example is the challenges of running specialized resource intensive programs like a medical school at a small, relatively isolated university like the U of S. The program has struggled to maintain accreditation due to the relatively small medical community and limited resources in the city. If that program were to become something of a satellite program of the the U of A, it might have more stability and resources. I know these are very complex issues which I don't claim to fully understand, but I think we need to consider all the options.

[IntotheWest]

^Fair enough...and I shouldn't of said "never" - I don't know enough to truly make that call.

The last point you make (re: satellite programs) might make sense...you're right, it is worth exploring.

I just didn't like how the tone of the article truly implies that we in the west are only living for the moment.

[newflyer]

FYI ... Manitoba has the fastest growing economy in Canada.


You can't spell Manitoba without spelling "IT"... as in Manitoba is the IT province of the land.

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by IntotheWest

Greco/Pegcityboy - I see where you're coming from, as the article does mention Calgary how many times? BUT, at the same time - the writer still throws a few comments in that would make it seem that Calgary is still a redneck hickville - which it isn't (but hey, slowly shedding its image).

I don't think anywhere in the article though, it paints a bad picture of Winnipeg...it does make the comment of getting "it" when it comes to the arts (though, typical of Easterners - and a lot of forumers - ignores that Calgary and Alberta's "western" art culture is more than redneck rodeos).

It describes Winnipeg as a washed-up has been of the past while praising Calgary as the best thing that could ever exist. It's nauseating!

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by Greco Roman

It describes Winnipeg as a washed-up has been of the past while praising Calgary as the best thing that could ever exist. It's nauseating!

No it doesn't, take a look at the article again, I made an effort to point out the two references made to Winnipeg.

Winnipeg was the economic centre of gravity of Western Canada = You equate this statement with "washed up Winnipeg" ...Ummm, Winnipeg is doing fine according to the latest economic indicators.

Winnipeg traditionally "gets it" when it comes to the arts = This sounds like praise to me, a genuine compliment

I feel like I am defending Winnipeg against an antagonistic Albertan...or something like that, that's not right dude.

Originally Posted by How the West won't be lost
New confidence and wealth are all very well, but there are other ways to be genuinely new

[...]

Calgary is the "it" girl, the economic centre of gravity of Western Canada. Winnipeg played this role a century ago; Vancouver assumes the pose on the Pacific Rim, but with less bravado and a more stylish hat. Calgary is the reigning icon of the West: what Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie are to Hollywood.

As the theme of last week's Western Premiers Conference, the host, Brad Wall of Saskatchewan, proclaimed, "It is the 'New West.'" But is the West all that new?

Politically, there has been a subtle yet noticeable shift in attitude. Maybe it's maturity, maybe it's just defeatism. Albertans have lost some of their vitriolic hatred for all things Ottawa. Gone (mostly) are the bumper stickers calling for "No Kyoto, No Wheat Board, No Gun Control." The attitude to the federal government is softer. A Conservative government led by a Calgarian has helped, but the mood shift had its underpinnings much earlier.

Yet softening attitudes toward Ottawa shouldn't be confused with favourable ones. The federal government is more likely to cause Westerners to roll their eyes than to clench their fists or gnash their teeth. Ottawa is not irrelevant, just less irritating.

Culturally, the West is evolving as well. Winnipeg traditionally "gets it" when it comes to the arts, but Alberta is getting it, too. A stunning new art gallery is sprouting up in downtown Edmonton, a curved-steel exclamation mark on its already thriving arts scene. Calgary is also shedding its skin as a cultural backwater. Theatre, music and visual arts are taking off in Cowtown, their ascent aided by huge dollops of corporate and philanthropic money sloshing around the province.

[...]

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by SASKFTW

No it doesn't, take a look at the article again, I made an effort to point out the two references made to Winnipeg.

Winnipeg was the economic centre of gravity of Western Canada = You equate this statement with "washed up Winnipeg" ...Ummm, Winnipeg is doing fine according to the latest economic indicators.

Winnipeg traditionally "gets it" when it comes to the arts = This sounds like praise to me, a genuine compliment

I feel like I am defending Winnipeg against an antagonistic Albertan...or something like that, that's not right dude.

But look at what you bolded: Winnipeg WAS the economic centre of gravity of Western Canada, and then saying Calgary is now essentially THE centre. Yeah, Winnipeg gets arts, but there is no real description of that. It just goes on to describe what is in Alberta.

And no, sorry, I am defending Winnipeg as it is my hometown. Anyways, I made my point and now this argument can come to rest.

[Ruckus]

Progress is often painful and usually necessary, quite disappointed that you're choosing to walk away from this discussion.

[CCF]

Originally Posted by Greco Roman

But look at what you bolded: Winnipeg WAS the economic centre of gravity of Western Canada, and then saying Calgary is now essentially THE centre.

There's nothing incorrect about that statement.

Winnipeg served a much larger function in Canada's early existance than it does today. Particularly as the transportation hub to Western Canada. It's not an insult to say said function has declined, that's just fact as other Canadian cities like Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, etc have geared up their infrastructure to compete and as transportation technology has changed.

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by CCF

There's nothing incorrect about that statement.

Winnipeg served a much larger function in Canada's early existance than it does today. Particularly as the transportation hub to Western Canada. It's not an insult to say said function has declined, that's just fact as other Canadian cities like Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, etc have geared up their infrastructure to compete and as transportation technology has changed.

Yes, there is some truth to that statement, but you aren't taking into accont the rest of what I have to say therefore missing my point. Anyways, like I said; I've had my say and this argument should be put to rest.

Back to the beginning, it looks like Manitoba is set to be one of the economic powerhouses in the country, despite Stelmach's rediculous and spiteful claims to the contrary.

[IntotheWest]

Originally Posted by SASKFTW

I feel like I am defending Winnipeg against an antagonistic Albertan...or something like that, that's not right dude.

Ummm...I hope you're not refering to me as "antagonistic" - just like Greco, Winnipeg is equally my hometown and I take pride in that. I just have a different opinion on Calgary, really (hey, I like Edmonton too :-). So, not trying to start fights, just hoping to throw a different viewpoint into the mix.

As for the article, I do think Greco is looking too deep into the couple comments about Winnipeg. The way they paint the picture of Calgary (and the west in general, really) is that we might be the "it" region, but we don't plan for when we're not the "it" place.

Could be wrong, but just the way I'm seeing it.

EDIT: Greco, you are right though that Winnipeg doesn't get enough love from the national media when it is doing well (and, as the other thread points out, leading all provinces in growth). I'm starting to think Calgary just gets more attention out east because it contrasts so heavily with Toronto in almost everyway, where Winnipeg "traditionally" shares more and has been a large city for the longest time. Just no interest in reading about that from those out east.

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by IntotheWest

Ummm...I hope you're not refering to me as "antagonistic" - just like Greco, Winnipeg is equally my hometown and I take pride in that. I just have a different opinion on Calgary, really (hey, I like Edmonton too :-). So, not trying to start fights, just hoping to throw a different viewpoint into the mix.

As for the article, I do think Greco is looking too deep into the couple comments about Winnipeg. The way they paint the picture of Calgary (and the west in general, really) is that we might be the "it" region, but we don't plan for when we're not the "it" place.

Could be wrong, but just the way I'm seeing it.

EDIT: Greco, you are right though that Winnipeg doesn't get enough love from the national media when it is doing well (and, as the other thread points out, leading all provinces in growth). I'm starting to think Calgary just gets more attention out east because it contrasts so heavily with Toronto in almost everyway, where Winnipeg "traditionally" shares more and has been a large city for the longest time. Just no interest in reading about that from those out east.

No, not all.

There was a time when Saskatchewan got dumped on similarly as Manitoba. I like to think I understand some of Manitoba's frustration.

[Markus41]

Originally Posted by SASKFTW

No, not all.

There was a time when Saskatchewan got dumped on similarly as Manitoba. I like to think I understand some of Manitoba's frustration.

I guess that Manitoba is the new Saskatchewan of Canada.

[drew]

Originally Posted by SASKFTW

No, not all.

There was a time when Saskatchewan got dumped on similarly as Manitoba. I like to think I understand some of Manitoba's frustration.

You talk as if it was a long time ago...

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by drew

You talk as if it was a long time ago...

A couple years ago is a long time ago when your talking about Saskatchewan's past

[Markus41]

Originally Posted by CCF

There's nothing incorrect about that statement.

There is also nothing incorrect about saying Regina is an extremely boring and crime-ridden city, but you don't see people constantly bringing up that fact all the time now do you?

[CCF]

Originally Posted by Markus41

There is also nothing incorrect about saying Regina is an extremely boring and crime-ridden city, but you don't see people constantly bringing up that fact all the time now do you?

Haha....is this for real?

So much for a civil, educational discussion.

I won't stoop to such a level.

[IntotheWest]

Originally Posted by Markus41

There is also nothing incorrect about saying Regina is an extremely boring and crime-ridden city, but you don't see people constantly bringing up that fact all the time now do you?

I don't get this comment - are you just joking around?? Even in joking, I don't think its necessary.

Personally I find, for its size, Regina is a nice city...I've always enjoyed it there.

[Hillbillary]

Originally Posted by Markus41

There is also nothing incorrect about saying Regina is an extremely boring and crime-ridden city, but you don't see people constantly bringing up that fact all the time now do you?

Is that you, Premier Stelmach?

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by Markus41

There is also nothing incorrect about saying Regina is an extremely boring and crime-ridden city, but you don't see people constantly bringing up that fact all the time now do you?

I'm not sure I understand the intent of your post...are you attempting to create a comparison between Winnipegger's and Reginan's response to criticism?

Are you from Winnipeg?