DETROIT | Hudson's Detroit | 685 FT & 240 FT | 49 & 14 FLOORS

[seabee1526]

Originally Posted by DetroitSky

I was expecting a large tenant to relocate from the suburbs to Hudson's but I think in the end this will be a good thing for both properties.

I really hope this means we'll see construction on all of the RenCen's riverfront parking lots. They've always been an embarrassment.

You can relocate your Monroe Midway to that large space with riverwalk access so the Monroe Blocks / Cadillac Square can kick off in earnest.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by The North One

Whoever said that is obviously delusional lol. Would be insanity and crazy expensive to demolish perfectly good office space just because it's had troubles due to the pandemic for only a few short years. This is still one of the largest office complexes in the world.

I found the exchange from a year and a half ago.

It was more just wild speculation than info of any real plan.

Originally Posted by iheartthed

There is angst brewing that it may not survive once the Hudson tower is open.

[edale]

Maybe one of the outer towers of the Ren Cen could be redeveloped to residential? The whole point of the complex is to be a 'city within a city', so it seems like it'd be a good idea to have residential, hotel, office, and retail all represented on site. I agree it's much too large to all be converted to residential, especially if the office space is decent, which is appears to be.

[subterranean]

As absurd as the thoughts is, I’d like to go on record as saying that I would be absolutely thrilled if they demolished the whole damn thing. One of the ugliest large building/complexes in North America, imho.

[Steely Dan]

I understand that its aesthetics are not the most easily and widely palatable, but the Ren Cen is WAY too wrapped up in mental image of Detroit for me to ever wanna see it demolished.

i fondly remember going to the Ren Cen and seeing it for the first time at the age of 9 back in 1985. To me, it literally looked like it was straight outta some Hollywood sci fi movie set at the time.


Source: wikipedia.


And it'll be nice to finally get all of that distracting GM branding off it.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

I understand that its aesthetics are not the most easily and widely palatable, but the Ren Cen is WAY too wrapped up in mental image of Detroit for me to ever wanna see it demolished.

i fondly remember going to the Ren Cen and seeing it for the first time at the age of 9 back in 1985. To me, it literally looked like it was straight outta some Hollywood sci fi movie set at the time.


Source: wikipedia.


And it'll be nice to finally get all of that distracting GM branding off it.

Yeah, it's similar to the original WTC in NY - very controversial for destroying a neighborhood and initially hated for their brutishness, but then becoming a beloved symbol of NYC and now missed. I don't see them demolishing the whole complex but perhaps they may either convert the two small towers into residential or demolishing those two and better integrating the complex into the rest of downtown. RenCen has a huge amount of office space, 5 million per Wiki, and Detroit is likely struggling with high office vacancies like most cities and the two smaller towers are not really the signature piece of RenCen.

[Steely Dan]

^ yeah, nobody cares about the two smaller annex buildings.

It's the original 5 tower complex that matters.

Hell, demolishing the two add-ons might even make the original composition stronger.

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ yeah, nobody cares about the two smaller annex buildings.

It's the original 5 tower complex that matters.

Hell, demolishing the two add-ons might even make the original composition stronger.

Given this recent article, that seems unlikely:

2 Renaissance Center towers in Detroit just sold: What it means for downtown office market


The vacancy rate is up, leasing prices are down and employers still aren't demanding everyone be back in the office like it is 2019. Yet this current state of the downtown Detroit office market did not stop a local real estate firm last month from buying two of the seven Renaissance Center towers, with plans to keep the glassy pair as office space.

Source: https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...e/72050974007/

[DetroitSky]

The two smaller towers are not part of this project. They were sold by GM years ago and remain office space, although I believe they are struggling. The project being discussed I imagine is just the four towers surrounding the central Marriott, which I don't see them closing or repurposing.

And let's be real, the RenCen is not going to be demolished.

[uaarkson]

Yeah, the Renaissance Center is an iconic Detroit landmark. Demolition is out of the question.

[Innsertnamehere]

Floorplates on the Ren Cen office towers are around 15,000sf - the modern standard is closer to 25,000sf, if not higher. Employers love being able to have their entire staff on a single floor, basically.

15,000sf is not tiny for an office floorplate, but it's not exactly spacious either. And it's on a hexagonal floorplate too, which means there is pretty good access to light. Makes it a decent residential conversion candidate, if not ideal. It's also small enough that it will be challenging to attract large tenants to the building who need more than 15,000sf, as they would likely prefer other options where they would need fewer floors.

Water views also tend to command higher premiums in the residential market than the office market, for what that's worth.

The Hudson's block office component has ridiculously sized floorplates. Looking at it, it looks like it's around 50,000sf a floor.. It's a desirable office property for that reason.. you can fit probably 3-400 employees to a floor.

[Velvet_Highground]

I don’t see any demolition the office towers have prime locations to be converted into housing, hotel space and there’s also the chance to get the lobby right. With I-375 & the Jefferson interchange being removed the NE portion of the property will have room to breathe and depending on demand as part of a larger project or a future development. Connecting Millikan State Park with the Ren Cen along the water and mid to high rises were planned along Jefferson in the last master plan.

A stepping stone effect was desired with lower buildings along the water while taller to the north and south of Jefferson. This was before Covid so we will have to see what the plans are for the Ren Cen and how much residential, hotel & commercial space can be absorbed.

I understand GM moving a lot of work to the Tech Center there are certain stages of development that require specialized equipment & department to department coordination.

Ford has been very quiet about its plans for Dearborn but a protective screen is being installed at the HQ & at least a portion of the original R&D Campus on Oakman is under construction. I’ve been informed that there is a 3 day work week as well whether this is for tech and engineering or higher up white collar & execs I’m not sure. However the secretive nature of what’s going on at Ford HQ says it’s likely the higher ups are coming in 3 days a week.

[BuildThemTaller]

I hope that GM refrains from adding any tacky branding to the top of the new tower like they have with the Renaissance Center.

[Velvet_Highground]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

One of the best "urban hole" filling projects in the nation in recent memory.


Source: https://twitter.com/crainsdetroit/st...643897/photo/1

Here, here!

[The North One]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The Hudson's block office component has ridiculously sized floorplates. Looking at it, it looks like it's around 50,000sf a floor.. It's a desirable office property for that reason.. you can fit probably 3-400 employees to a floor.

Yeah, there's no doubt the Hudson block office space is multitudes better than what Ren Cen could ever offer. I mean office space in general doesn't get better or more premium than what they built there. Only downside is there's no waterfront views.

My point is Ren Cen office space is very far from obsolete. It's still damn good space. And downtown still needs available office space like that even if it's going through a little trouble right now. Downtown's office vacancy is also low at about 10%. And pretty much the entire vacant space is in the Ren Cen. So it's not like downtown is having trouble with office demand.

[Yackemflaber69]

Maybe converting one of the towers at rencen to residential and another one to more hotel rooms?

[Crawford]

GM is taking two floors in this project. Two floors! They're taking 100k square feet, and they currently own the RenCen, which encompasses 5.5 million square feet, mostly empty.

They currently have 20,000 employees at the Warren Tech Center and about 800 in the RenCen. This is basically a PR move/whitewashing of GM's post-Covid plans. Massive, epic HQ downsizing. The world's biggest company from about 1930-1990 will have a HQ smaller than a suburban Target.

I don't believe the RenCen will exist 30 years from now. Maybe the Wintergarden, and maybe the central tower? Even the deepest pockets would have a hard time converting 5.5 million square feet to residential, and that site has been a convoluted, anti-urban mess since it was built.

At least GM CEO Barra kept the bigshots downtown. It could have been worse. And at least they're in the very center of downtown, not in an isolated fortress.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by Crawford

They currently have 20,000 employees at the Warren Tech Center and about 800 in the RenCen.

Tech center has always had more employees, it's a car manufacturer, not a bank. You also made up 800, they have 2,500.

I don't believe the RenCen will exist 30 years from now.

Wanna make a bet? (although you're probably too old for a 30 year wait time) Your previous grand predictions didn't pan out so well, to say the least. IDK how you're not too embarrassed to post in here again.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by The North One

Your previous grand predictions didn't pan out so well, to say the least.

This one is still gold.

Hell, with the recent topping off, it's even golder now!

Originally Posted by Crawford

Saying the tower is being built, right now, is untruthful.

Again, there are no permits. None. No financing. Nothing. No announcements about building program.

They're basically building a garage, right now, which replaces a previous garage, which was poorly built and nearly collapsing. The previous garage had to be replaced under any circumstance. Until there's some documentation indicating what (if anything) is being built above the garage, it's just boosterism to claim that a rebuilt garage is somehow indicative of what may eventually be built above.

I don't doubt there will eventually be a tower of some sort built on this site, but there's no reason to believe it's happening right now, absent evidence. And there's absolutely no reason for Bedrock to hide its plans, if it actually has plans. I mean, these plans would be the biggest development news in the city since the RenCen was announced nearly 50 years ago.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by subterranean

As absurd as the thoughts is, I’d like to go on record as saying that I would be absolutely thrilled if they demolished the whole damn thing. One of the ugliest large building/complexes in North America, imho.

I won't say I'd be thrilled to see it go, but the whole thing was a mistake. There's a reasonable argument to be made that it set downtown Detroit back a generation because it flooded the downtown submarket with commercial office space during one of its weakest eras. The Ren Cen was also built in such an isolated way that there was never any spin off development from it. They also cleared an enormous amount of land along the waterfront to build it that could have developed into something like a Meatpacking District. If they were going to build that much office space downtown it would have made a lot more sense to spread it around into multiple developments.

I think the hotel tower is safe since Detroit needs many more hotel rooms right now, but not sure about the office towers. If I were to bet, I'd say the most likely scenario right now is for Detroit and/or Michigan to try to absorb the space with government offices. That is what they did to preserve the old GM building in New Center when the company moved to the Ren Cen. They could also focus on developing much more residential on all of that surface parking to the east of the towers, which would make the complex less isolated.