Is Arizona the new Texas?

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by Omaharocks

Somewhere more analogous to Phoenix is Santiago, Chile. Similar amount of precipitation per year, in a very arid country, but with mountains on the outskirts that allow for sufficient water.

Santiago is a Mediterranean climate! It's more like Los Angeles than Phoenix (though, LA has probably gotten too big as well). Santiago also doesn't need to ship in water from 200 miles away.

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

Tell me this: If deserts are perfectly fine place to build big cities, why aren't there tons of huge cities in the Sahara and Australian deserts?

wot?

Arizona is not the Sahara. It is a modern US state with advanced infrastructure and water management.

FYI, there are huge desert cities throughout the world and some are located in these desert countries, there are many more.

Saudi Arabia: 35 million
Yemen: 28 million
Oman: 5 million
UAE: 10 million
Qatar: 3 million
Kuwait: 4.5 million
Iraq: 41 million
Syria: 18 million
Iran: 85 million
Jordan: 10 million
Egypt: 100 million
Sudan: 45 million
Libya: 7 million
Algeria: 45 million
Mauritania: 5 million

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by Camelback

wot?

Arizona is not the Sahara. It is a modern US state with advanced infrastructure and water management.

Australia is a modern state with (potentially) advanced infrastructure and water management. So why doesn't Alice Springs have 5 million people?

And as I've said, the fact that in Phoenix you need to ship in some water from 200 miles away just so people can take their morning showers goes to show it's not a good place for a large city.

FYI, there are huge desert cities throughout the world and some are located in these desert countries, there are many more.

Saudi Arabia: 35 million
Yemen: 28 million
Oman: 5 million
UAE: 10 million
Qatar: 3 million
Kuwait: 4.5 million
Iraq: 41 million
Syria: 18 million
Iran: 85 million
Jordan: 10 million
Egypt: 100 million
Sudan: 45 million
Libya: 7 million
Algeria: 45 million
Mauritania: 5 million

Some of those nations have almost the same population as metro Phoenix! As for the rest, they too, are doomed. No wonder so many people are trying to leave much of the Middle East for Europe and elsewhere. And as I already noted, Egypt and Iraq have huge rivers running through their biggest cities.

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

Australia is a modern state with (potentially) advanced infrastructure and water management. So why doesn't Alice Springs have 5 million people?

And as I've said, the fact that in Phoenix you need to ship in some water from 200 miles away just so people can take their morning showers goes to show it's not a good place for a large city.


Some of those nations have almost the same population as metro Phoenix! As for the rest, they too, are doomed. No wonder so many people are trying to leave much of the Middle East for Europe and elsewhere. And as I already noted, Egypt and Iraq have huge rivers running through their biggest cities.

wot?

You're asking why Alice Springs isn't the size of Sydney in a continent with the population of 25 million people...

At this point you're trolling.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by Camelback

wot?

You're asking why Alice Springs isn't the size of Sydney in a continent with the population of 25 million people...

At this point you're trolling.

Says the person who just compared entire countries to an individual city.

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

Says the person who just compared entire countries to an individual city.

You asked where there were big cities in the Sahara. I gave you a list of Sahara nations that have large populations (and other desert nations on the Arabian peninsula, the Middle East and Persia).

You are trolling.

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by Omaharocks

Because either there isn't water in those places, or there aren't the resources to do extensive water reclamation as there is in the U.S., or both.

I shouldn't have to say this, but not all deserts are the same. The Australian Central Desert is not ringed by mountains that draw precipitation, and therefore doesn't have the available ground or surface water to support cities.

Somewhere more analogous to Phoenix is Santiago, Chile. Similar amount of precipitation per year, in a very arid country, but with mountains on the outskirts that allow for sufficient water.

Good post. I don't know what the deal is with some people. Despite numerous people providing information to them, it's like they're intentionally being obtuse for the sake of trolling.

Phoenix receives something like 4x the annual rainfall of Santiago. Tucson 6x.
Then there's Lima. 10 million people, annual rainfall of 0.25".

From downtown Phoenix to the snow pack of the Mogollon Rim (part of the Salt River watershed) is only 75 miles.

[James Bond Agent 007]

I said:

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

Tell me this: If deserts are perfectly fine place to build big cities, why aren't there tons of huge cities in the Sahara and Australian deserts?

And indeed, there are no big cities in the Australian desert, and the only big city in the Sahara is Cairo, which has a gigantic river running right through it.

Dubai gets most of its water from desalinization plants (which tells you it's a dumb place for a big city), and in Saudi Arabia, the only really big city is Riyadh, which also gets most of its water pumped in from desalinization plants far away.

I suppose in the case of Saudi Arabia they have no choice because the entire nation is a desert, but that's not the case with the US. Nobody HAS to live in Phoenix when they can live in Memphis.

Building a big city in the desert is sort of like building a big city on the moon. Sure, you can do it, but you have to build so much infrastructure just to make it livable it makes you wonder why people are doing it in the first place when there are so many other easier (and cheaper!) alternatives.

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

I said:

And indeed, there are no big cities in the Australian desert, and the only big city in the Sahara is Cairo, which has a gigantic river running right through it.

Dubai gets most of its water from desalinization plants (which tells you it's a dumb place for a big city), and in Saudi Arabia, the only really big city is Riyadh, which also gets most of its water pumped in from desalinization plants far away.

I suppose in the case of Saudi Arabia they have no choice because the entire nation is a desert, but that's not the case with the US. Nobody HAS to live in Phoenix when they can live in Memphis.

Building a big city in the desert is sort of like building a big city on the moon. Sure, you can do it, but you have to build so much infrastructure just to make it livable it makes you wonder why people are doing it in the first place when there are so many other easier (and cheaper!) alternatives.

Correct, nobody HAS to live in Arizona (or anywhere for that matter), yet 7 million people have chosen to live in the state and the state is continuing to grow and it is able to grow because it has great water management and an ample supply of fresh water, (which numerous people have informed you of).

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by Camelback

Correct, nobody HAS to live in Arizona, yet 7 million people have chosen to live in the state and the state is continuing to grow and it is able to grow because it has great water management and an ample supply of fresh water, (which numerous people have informed you of).

And IF the state of Arizona didn't spend gobs of money building water infrastructure projects to ship in water from 200 miles away, you wouldn't have 7 million people living there.

[xzmattzx]

Most of the western US is like that, not just Phoenix. What is the source of water for San Francisco? Los Angeles? San Diego? Salt Lake City? Reno? Then continue on into Mexico. What's the source of water in Hermosillo? Monterrey? Chihuahua?

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

And IF the state of Arizona didn't spend gobs of money building water infrastructure projects to ship in water from 200 miles away, you wouldn't have 7 million people living there.

I don't know why that is bothering you. Just about every city on the planet has built dams, created reservoirs to store water for future use and yes, states then built infrastructure to then transport that water to people living in cities in the form of aqueducts, canals, water mains and plumbing in buildings.

The Quabbin Reservoir 70 miles west of Boston, was created in the 1930s, provides water for 2.5 million people. Without it, Boston wouldn't have millions living there.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by Camelback

I don't know why that is bothering you. Just about every city on the planet has built dams, created reservoirs to store water for future use and yes, states then built infrastructure to then transport that water to people living in cities in the form of aqueducts, canals, water mains and plumbing in buildings.

The Quabbin Reservoir 70 miles west of Boston, was created in the 1930s, provides water for 2.5 million people. Without it, Boston wouldn't have millions living there.

SF basically exists because between 1919 and 1923 it damed the Tuolumne River and filled a Sierra Valley that is said to have been as beautiful as Yosemite (it lies parallel to and just south of Yosemite Valley). The dam is 430 ft high and was authorized by Congress mainly due to the power of the California congressional delegation. These days, radical environmentalists want to tear it down and restore the valley. They don't seem to care where San Francisco and several Central Valley towns would get a water supply.

O'Shaughnessy Dam

https://www.google.com/search?q=O%27...sIWNipd4TyPkVM

[PHX31]

Im going to likely end this thread here. Ask yourself this, why does someone like James Bond 007 care so much about the desert and how/why a city like phoenix can exist? We've clearly explained how/why, and it's obvious every city in the world has been established by similar investment in infrastructure (of all different types). The reason is it's just pure jealousy. The krux of this entire site and our hobby in general is basically penis measuring all aspects about our cities and region. Phoenix/AZ is getting news of gigantic, very beneficial and sought after development projects that will likely grow our shaft even girthier than it already is in compared to where Bond lives and he's a little envious. I promise that's the underlying reason of most of his and most all posters hate of anything good in phoenix/AZ. For years they've felt phoenix is just a little prick of a city, but it's growing huge right before their eyes and they can't handle it.

[The North One]

It's not just 7 million people though, the entire Southwest is fighting for water and that extends to Colorado. Some of you are also conveniently forgetting climate change. And if anything the Ogallala aquifer is the Southwest/Mountain West's problem, not anybody east of the Mississippi.

[fonzi]

Originally Posted by PHX31

Im going to likely end this thread here. Ask yourself this, why does someone like James Bond 007 care so much about the desert and how/why a city like phoenix can exist? We've clearly explained how/why, and it's obvious every city in the world has been established by similar investment in infrastructure (of all different types). The reason is it's just pure jealousy. The krux of this entire site and our hobby in general is basically penis measuring all aspects about our cities and region. Phoenix/AZ is getting news of gigantic, very beneficial and sought after development projects that will likely grow our shaft even girthier than it already is in compared to where Bond lives and he's a little envious. I promise that's the underlying reason of most of his and most all posters hate of anything good in phoenix/AZ. For years they've felt phoenix is just a little prick of a city, but it's growing huge right before their eyes and they can't handle it.

You didn't clearly explain much anything, other than your ultra hubris demonstration. I've cited articles and posted actual studies, showing much more concretely, that Phx already is running up against limitations and over extending itself. If anything, ending this thread would be the equivalent of plugging one's ears and yelling "LALALA" as to not hear the hard truth.

I've lived there long enough to understand the place and knowing that it's very existence is based on importation, and not just water. The city landscape has rare numbers of Saguaro vs the Eucalyptus and Bermuda grass that need constant replenishing. It's mostly contrived, and while the tourist materials plug the natural landscape around it, the reality is that it's not much of that at all. The best parts are the areas of far N Phx, and Cave Creek, that allow it to be what it is, for the most part. Many Cave Creek residents need cisterns and storage for water, and that's a lot more honest representation of the way to live there, as an example.

Central Phx and Tempe are making big strides to be a true, concentrated urban setting. That's good news and a step in the right direction, but all this proposed surrounding of the White Tanks, and the idea of constant sprawl from Phx to Tucson, is absolute rubbish.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by PHX31

Im going to likely end this thread here. Ask yourself this, why does someone like James Bond 007 care so much about the desert and how/why a city like phoenix can exist? We've clearly explained how/why, and it's obvious every city in the world has been established by similar investment in infrastructure (of all different types). The reason is it's just pure jealousy. The krux of this entire site and our hobby in general is basically penis measuring all aspects about our cities and region. Phoenix/AZ is getting news of gigantic, very beneficial and sought after development projects that will likely grow our shaft even girthier than it already is in compared to where Bond lives and he's a little envious. I promise that's the underlying reason of most of his and most all posters hate of anything good in phoenix/AZ. For years they've felt phoenix is just a little prick of a city, but it's growing huge right before their eyes and they can't handle it.

LOL, what a ridiculous argument. I'm not complaining about tons of development in Atlanta or Dallas, because they have tons of water. If I was jealous of those cities getting lots of development I'd be complaining about them, too.

[fonzi]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

LOL, what a ridiculous argument. I'm not complaining about tons of development in Atlanta or Dallas, because they have tons of water. If I was jealous of those cities getting lots of development I'd be complaining about them, too.

Bingo.

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

LOL, what a ridiculous argument. I'm not complaining about tons of development in Atlanta or Dallas, because they have tons of water. If I was jealous of those cities getting lots of development I'd be complaining about them, too.

Do you know why those cities have "tons of water"? It's because of water management and dams that have created large bodies of water for storage such as Lake Lanier. The water in Lake Lanier is heavily litigated and Alabama and Florida have rights to that water. Without it, there is no way that a city the size of metropolitan Atlanta could exist. This is also true for Dallas and many other cities across the country and is not unique to Phoenix.

[Camelback]

The new Intel plant will create 3,000 new high paying jobs. 3,000 construction jobs. Will increase their workforce in Arizona to 16,000 and the new plant will support 15,000 jobs indirectly in the area. Over the last 40 years, Intel has invested $50 billion in Arizona. Since 2015, they have donated $35 million to local public schools. Employees have contributed over 750,000 volunteer hours.