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  #161  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2008, 11:00 PM
Greco Roman Greco Roman is offline
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[QUOTE=socialisthorde;3623572]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
^ Last time I checked there were plenty of available jobs in Alberta and Saskatchewan. If someone from southeast Asia can come here(who doesn't even speak English) and find a job I'm sure many of those unemployed on reserves could as well![/QUOTE]

What about the rest?
Who are you referring to ?
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  #162  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2008, 11:35 PM
socialisthorde socialisthorde is offline
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^I am referring to those who do not find jobs when the reserves are shut down.
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  #163  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2008, 4:49 AM
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What about off-reserve aboriginals who do not find jobs?
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  #164  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2008, 3:48 PM
socialisthorde socialisthorde is offline
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I guess what I am saying is that there is already a huge problem with off reserve unemployment for First Nations people. The unemployment rate is significantly higher on reserve, and I would suspect that the unemployed on reserve are even less employable than those off reserve (i.e. in addition to facing predjudice, lower average education levels, higher levels of substance use problems etc. those on reserve have been somewhat isloated from the urban world). While some unemployed living on reserves could probably find work on their own quickly, I suspect that number is pretty small. The remainder would have to be integrated into other social services systems which are already overburdened. So if we immediately do away with the reserve system as was advocated above, we will be piling a gigantic problem onto an already large problem. There is also the issue of where these people would go. Having talked with numerous people from rural and smaller urban communities in Saskatchewan, there is a huge bias against First Nations people. I call it racism, but some would call it realistic appraisal based on past experience. In eiether case, I don't think anyone can deny, that rural and smaller urban communities are not going to embrace a huge influx of First Nations people (particularly if they are undemployed). Therefore, the vast majority are going to cities, which already have growing communities (ghettos?) comprised largely of unemployed First Nations people. Is it really beneficial to anyone if those communities get bigger without getting better? I am not diminishing the strength of individual First Nations people, here, but no matter whether you fall more towards personal responsibility (right) or societal responsability (left), there are pragmatic reasons that we can't simply abandon the curent system over night without thorough discussion and leadership from the First Nations people themselves as to whether and how that transition will occur.
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  #165  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2008, 2:37 PM
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Hooray for the women!

Women aim to seize band office

By: Paul Gackle

Updated: July 10 at 06:50 AM CDT

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Women of the Roseau River First Nation plan on taking over the band office this morning after they decided to "impeach" Chief Terry Nelson and his council.

In the wake of last month's Roseau River water bill fiasco, the male band members approached the women -- who are the final decision-makers in this matriarchal society -- with tobacco, a symbol of spirituality, and asked them to determine the future of the band's leadership.

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Linda Roberts says 12 women will assume position of interim band leaders until election is held in March. (Mike Aporius / Free Press Archives )

Linda Roberts, who helped lead the discussion, said 12 Roseau River women will assume the position of interim band leaders until regular elections are held in March.

Letters to Nelson and his four council members -- Gary Roberts, Lawrence Henry, June Larocque and Keith Henry -- were sent Wednesday night to inform them of their decision.

"You are further directed to CEASE AND DESIST any and all actions... as Chief... of the Roseau River Anishinabe First Nation," the letter states. "Your failure to abide by the directives of the traditional systems of the Anishinabe will... confirm your complete disrespect and dishonour to the people of the Roseau River First Nation."

The Free Press attempted to contact Nelson Wednesday evening, but he could not be reached.

Roberts said the band wants to remove Nelson and his council because they have mismanaged funds allocated to the band and have refused to be accountable to the people of Roseau River.

The women's "impeachment" decision is the most recent action in a series of attempts to remove Nelson and his council from leadership. Last month, after the reserve went dry when Nelson refused to pay the band's water bill, Roberts collected roughly 200 signatures asking the minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, Chuck Strahl, to remove their leadership.

In June 2007, the band's custom council -- an unelected body that gives all of the 21 families on the reserve a representative in band governance -- called a byelection that Nelson and each of his four council members lost.

But Nelson is challenging the authority of the custom council in federal court. The case will be heard in December. This time, Roberts said, the women will physically take over the leadership offices this morning.

"We're going to lock them out," she said. "They are going to have to leave, we will not be letting these guys in."

The Roseau River women are also sending letters to Ottawa to ask the Canadian government to recognize their decision to impeach Chief Nelson.

paul.gackle@freepress.mb.ca
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  #166  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2008, 4:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Quimby View Post
If any of these issue involved a white european canadian would we be asking about white leadership?

No, we would just chalk it up to the individual. Why must an entire culture wear the mistakes of a few?
i would like to respectfully disagree with your point. from personal experience, i can say the leadershiop in some of these communities is absolutely horrifying.

i beleive that a people's traits showcase what their government is like. a very good friend of mine used to live in the Peguis area. she tells of rocks thrown at their vehicle every time they drove throught town. it was the norm to see houses burnt, stores vandalized, and numerous acts of abuse in broad daylight. yes, corruption can be found in all races, cultures, and certainly at all levels of authority. but it seems so consistant in (from my experience) northern aborigonal communities making it impossible for me to beleive that society is "wrongfully concerned". in fact i would love to see much more accountability, instead of truckloads of money thrown at the issue. besides, the money obviously doesnt even GET to the issue.
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  #167  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 4:01 PM
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Reserve squalor 'deplorable'- free press

FORT ALEXANDER — A Manitoba cabinet minister says he plans to contact the federal Indian Affairs minister after finding people living in “squalor” and “deplorable” conditions on a reserve northeast of Winnipeg.

Several politicians were shown around the Sagkeeng First Nation on Monday by the chief and other band officials, who say the reserve’s housing is falling apart and there isn’t enough to go around.

“In a country that’s supposed to be a champion of human rights, in its own backyard we have people that are living in literal squalor, people who are living in these deplorable housing conditions,” said Eric Robinson, minister of tourism, heritage and culture in the province’s NDP government.

“I think that this country should be ashamed of itself and I’m just absolutely disgraced.”

Some residents say snakes and other pests live under residences in the community — and that it’s gotten so bad that 96 rats were taken out from under one home. They worry the poor conditions could be contributing to health problems.

“All the issues — they’re all tied together with health,” said resident Barb Guimond.

“Probably a lot of reasons why people are sick is because of the housing conditions we’re living in right now.”

Robinson, who is a member of the Cross Lake First Nation in Northern Manitoba, says he plans to ask federal Indian Affairs Minister Chuck Strahl about securing more funding for better housing.

Band Chief Donavan Fontaine said the politicians got to see the worst of the situation in the community, but he hopes they took away a little bit more.

“Our community is a beautiful community, and I think we have a lot of pride in our community, and I think it’s good people, and they got to see that.”

- Canadian Press


oh, and my favorite part, "plans to ask federal Indian Affairs Minister Chuck Strahl about securing more funding for better housing."

...because that always seems to be the best answer they can come up with.
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  #168  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 7:39 PM
ScrappyPeg ScrappyPeg is offline
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That is a prime example why the reserve system simply doesn't work - it needs to be abolished.
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  #169  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 8:20 PM
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Maybe Sagkeeng can borrow some money from their friends at Brokenhead, they seem to have lot's of cash as evidenced by there latest building project:

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  #170  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2008, 3:01 PM
socialisthorde socialisthorde is offline
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Originally Posted by ScrappyPeg View Post
That is a prime example why the reserve system simply doesn't work - it needs to be abolished.
I don't imagine you will find many who disagree with the first part of your post, but the related questions of how it came to be so bad and what to do about it are more contentious. Your first statement does not necessarily logically lead to your second and even if it did, the complex part would not be abolishing the reserve system, it would be how to follow-up. That would be a more constructive discussion than simply pointing out over and over again the failures in the current system, which tends to imply subtley (or not so subtley in many cases), that First Nations people are soley responsible for this mess.

As noted in the post following yours, there are some real successes even within the messed up reserve system. This suggests to me that the failure of the reserve system is not due to some inherent fault in FIrst Nations people. The reserve system was not designed by First Nations People, so they (as a whole) should not be blamed for its failure, and should be given the opportunity to try to fix it. We (the European Canadian majority) had a chance to try out our idea (the current reserve system), maybe it is time we stand back and let the First Nations people (with the support we owe them for screwing it up in the first place) figure out how they want to fix it. It seems if a plumber messes up your plumbing once, you do not call him back. You do ask for all or some of your money back to repair the mess (s)he created.
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  #171  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2008, 6:05 PM
ScrappyPeg ScrappyPeg is offline
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My post assigned no blame for the failures of the system - it was a simple statement - 'abolish the reserve system'. You can choose to disagree if you wish. I do not believe there is a way to make remote northern reserves (or most others for that fact) viable if they rely solely on funds from the Government.

Blame who you wish - or assume that I blame whomever - the reserve system does not work. I have heard enough aboriginal people make the same statement that I believe them.
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  #172  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2008, 8:49 PM
socialisthorde socialisthorde is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScrappyPeg View Post
My post assigned no blame for the failures of the system - it was a simple statement - 'abolish the reserve system'. You can choose to disagree if you wish. I do not believe there is a way to make remote northern reserves (or most others for that fact) viable if they rely solely on funds from the Government.

Blame who you wish - or assume that I blame whomever - the reserve system does not work. I have heard enough aboriginal people make the same statement that I believe them.
I did not mean to imply that you were blaming anyone and I apologize if you took it that way. I think you missed the whole point of what I was saying, but perhaps that was my fault for trying to say too much in one post. What I was trying to say is that the current system cannot simply be "abolished" without some consideration to what will replace it.

I am not really interessted in assigning blame for the sake of assigning blame. I was speaking to my perception that we need to understand the factors which contributed to the current system so that it can be dismantled in a reasoned, fair and humane way. In doing this, I think it is of the utmost importance to allow First Nations people themselves to have the most input as it is their lives which are most affected and it is them who had the least voice in creating the current system. This has nothing to do with blame, but with who might provide the best most workable solution.
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  #173  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2008, 8:57 PM
socialisthorde socialisthorde is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScrappyPeg View Post
I do not believe there is a way to make remote northern reserves (or most others for that fact) viable if they rely solely on funds from the Government.
I agree, but how do you think that dependence can be reduced? (I am not being facetious - I obviously read too much into your posts, and I may have been defensive in the past, so I want to clarify). You suggested above "abolishing" the reserves, so I have assumed that is the solution you propose. Am I correct and if so, how would that come about (i.e. timeline, process, compensation)?
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  #174  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2008, 9:26 PM
ScrappyPeg ScrappyPeg is offline
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My tax dollars go towards paying Government officials to make those decisions - and they are to make those decisions in a most responsible manner so that those monies are spent in a most efficient and worthwhile way.

My opinion is that dependance should be gradually reduced over a number of years until there are no more Federal funds that are specifically targeted towards maintaining reserves. Settle all treaties and then burn the Indian Act.

I don't profess to have all the answers - I just don't believe that keeping Aborignal people dependant on the Goverment funds is helpful to anyone. The reserve system is completely dependant on Government monies. Self sufficiency and empowerment is the way!
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  #175  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2008, 10:55 PM
socialisthorde socialisthorde is offline
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Originally Posted by ScrappyPeg View Post
My tax dollars go towards paying Government officials to make those decisions - and they are to make those decisions in a most responsible manner so that those monies are spent in a most efficient and worthwhile way.

My opinion is that dependance should be gradually reduced over a number of years until there are no more Federal funds that are specifically targeted towards maintaining reserves. Settle all treaties and then burn the Indian Act.

I don't profess to have all the answers - I just don't believe that keeping Aborignal people dependant on the Goverment funds is helpful to anyone. The reserve system is completely dependant on Government monies. Self sufficiency and empowerment is the way!
I would agree with regard to elimination of the reserve system, but I don't agree with regard to ending all federal monies, unless that is also agreed to by the First Nations people. The treaties, like many other contracts included ongoing obligations which cannot be simply discharged without the agreement of both parties. I'm guessing that the vast majority of First Nations people would agree to dsimantle the current reserve system. However, I doubt that many would give up all benefits with regard to education etc. which were part of the original treaties, nor should they unless it can be proven legally that the treaties did not include these benefits.

With regard to "dependant" I would argue that it is a matter of degree. As I tried to argue somewhat awkwardly previously (here or on another thread ), we all are somewhat "dependant" on government services. Even in a libertarian utopia (i.e. Ayn Rand world), there would be police and military forces (with accompanying burocracy) paid for by all of us and serving all of us. I think most of us would choose an even less libertarian approach and therefore expect more government services than police and military (e.g. education, healthcare). Therefore, we all choose to have some degree of "dependance" on government (each other). After all, the goal of having a government is to formalize and institutionalize cooperation between the citizens who create it.

While the goal may be to have equal give and take for every citizen, that is not possible and we generally accept that circumstances play some role (i.e. the medical services provided to a pregnant woman are generally greater than those provided to a young male). The current circumstance for First Nations people are that they face racism and many face a deprived history which would make it difficult for them to overcome their circumstances independantly. We also take into account that different people contribute in different ways (i.e. the pregnant woman is hypothetically benefitting all of us through propogation of the species). First Nations people contributed historically through ceding much of their land. We can argue about the value of that contribution to our current wealth, but we can't pretend it doesn't exist and that therefore we don't have any obligation.
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  #176  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2008, 1:33 AM
ScrappyPeg ScrappyPeg is offline
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My opinion - abolish the reserve system, settle treaties and work towards self sufficiency and empowerment. Abolish the Indian Act.

Most Indians (since it's tiresome to be so politically correct all the time) don't benefit from 'free education', they live in substandard housing on (sometimes) remote reserves where there is nothing to do but sit and feel sorry for oneself. There is typically substandard healthcare available on reserves - it's hard enough and too expensive (thus impractical) to provide Medicare in the larger centers, never mind in the remote areas.

In Manitoba, a reserve is considered 'successful' if they build a casino - a place where many social problems begin and perpetuate - hardly seems successful. Even the more successful reserves (Terry Nelson's for example) have heavy financial problems and plenty of well publicized corruption.

(repeat my first paragraph)

note: and btw - a male (assuming your male) should never use the 'pregnant woman being more of a financial burden on the health care system than the young male' example...most women do not appreciate that argument, even if it's just for argument sake.
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  #177  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2008, 2:53 AM
socialisthorde socialisthorde is offline
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Perhaps I am a pregnant woman Anyone who would be offended by my argument is not reading it carefully or has rather weak logic skills, since I did not say or imply that a pregnant woman does not deserve a higher proportion of health care resources. I simply observed that they get more of that particular resource at that particular stage of life and in fact I implied that they should not be judged or feel guilty for it. I also stated directly that they do us all a favour. We all give and take at different times and in different ways. When I am elderly, i will use more than others who are younger and I don't expect to be judged. Ces't la vie.

WRT the topic at hand, I guess we are probably closer to agreeing than either of us would like. I do object to the "politically correct" jab, as it takes no more effort to use one phrase than another, but in the spirit of agreement, let's call it a draw.
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  #178  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2008, 6:02 PM
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"Revision Quest" on CBC

I encourage everyone to check out this series on CBC Radio One. I think it provides an interesting perspective on all that has been discussed here and other threads regarding First Nations Issues (or for those who tire of political correctness, Indian issues ). There is a bias to the shows, as there is in all media discussion of this type, but I think they present a fresh and relatively fair take on the issues. Today's episode is specifically about the reserve system.
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  #179  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2008, 11:39 PM
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JJ Harpers nefue was shot by police over the weekend after refusing to put a knife down and the tazer not working on him..... they warned the dude to put the knife down.... what els is there to say?
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  #180  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 4:26 AM
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It's the race card again: Native leaders lose credibility in false claims

By TOM BRODBECK | Winnipeg Sun | Wed, August 6, 2008

The reason aboriginal leaders in Manitoba have no credibility when alleging police racism is because even when they're presented with clear evidence that cops sometimes have no choice but to shoot armed suspects, they still cry racism.

Anybody remember the case of Donald Miles? He was an aboriginal man fatally shot by police outside a Winnipeg gas station in 2001.

He lunged at an officer with a knife and cops had no choice but to shoot him.

The case was investigated by homicide detectives and reviewed by an outside agency, as per the law.

The case went to a coroner's inquest in front of a provincial court judge, which is also mandated by law.

All of the evidence was laid on the table, examined, questioned and tested. The conclusion by the judge was cops did everything in their power to stop Miles -- including emptying three canisters of pepper spray on him -- and had no choice but to shoot.

Did aboriginal leaders come out and condemn Miles for his actions when presented with the facts? Did they recommend to their own people that if asked by police to drop a weapon that they comply?

No.

We all remember the case of Matthew Dumas, the aboriginal man fatally shot by police in 2005 after he lunged at a cop with a screwdriver.

The case was investigated by homicide and was reviewed by an outside police agency.

It went to a coroner's inquest where all the facts were scrutinized and all the witnesses examined and cross-examined in court.

It was a thorough probe and the evidence clearly showed the cop had no choice but to shoot.

Two civilian witnesses -- both of whom were aboriginal -- testified in court they saw Dumas lunge at the officer with a screwdriver.

Did any aboriginal leaders come out and condemn Dumas for his actions? Did they state the obvious, that he was the author of his own misfortune?

Nope.

Instead, they maintained the shooting was an act of racism. In other words, it doesn't matter what the facts of the case are.

Aboriginal leaders will always stand up at press conferences and say cops are shooting native people for no reason. I don't know how they expect the public to take them seriously.

Craig McDougall, an aboriginal man, was fatally shot by police over the weekend.

Cops say he was brandishing a knife. We don't know the facts of the case yet. But we will.

Because, just like the Dumas and Miles cases, it will go to a coroner's inquest where all the evidence will be examined and scrutinized.

If cops used excessive force and shot when they shouldn't have, we'll find out.

If McDougall was not brandishing a knife as his family alleges, we'll find that out, too.

In the meantime, using the McDougall death as another soapbox for aboriginal leaders to make blanket statements about how cops are running around shooting native people for no reason is not only irresponsible and preposterous, it hurts their own cause.

Because every time they make these false claims, they lose credibility with the public.

Their claims recommendations from the 1991 Aboriginal Justice Inquiry have not been acted upon are also bogus.

It's simply not true. The former Filmon government acted on many of them and the Doer government has acted on many more.

Despite that, many aboriginal leaders refuse to even acknowledge some of the progress that's been made.

I guess it's just easier to keep playing the race card.
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