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  #61  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2008, 6:55 PM
Mayor Quimby Mayor Quimby is offline
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Originally Posted by Migs View Post
His message went right over your head hey???? Jesus you make Saskatchewan sounds like a barren wasteland. Makes you wonder how its possible that there are literally hundreds of civilized communities in this province all the while leading the country in economic growth.

That said, his message is straight forward and to the point and he deserves accolades for turning his band around and not being afraid of telling it like it is.
Actually, No it didn't but my point that it is easier to have vineyard, make wine and sell it for a large profit in Okanagan then to farm a reserve in Saskatchewan. Wine making is more profitable, more labour intensive and more profitable. Add in the landscape and tourism which Saskatchewan lacks and it is much easier. Not mention that First Nations are dealt with better by the populace in BC then Saskatchewan. Not as much racism.

Yes, his advice should be taken into account by First Nations, and all people, but it won't be as easy in Saskatchewan. On the same note, do you take advice from Warren Buffet or Gates or Branson?
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  #62  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2008, 7:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Mayor Quimby View Post
Actually, No it didn't but my point that it is easier to have vineyard, make wine and sell it for a large profit in Okanagan then to farm a reserve in Saskatchewan. Wine making is more profitable, more labour intensive and more profitable. Add in the landscape and tourism which Saskatchewan lacks and it is much easier. Not mention that First Nations are dealt with better by the populace in BC then Saskatchewan. Not as much racism.

Yes, his advice should be taken into account by First Nations, and all people, but it won't be as easy in Saskatchewan. On the same note, do you take advice from Warren Buffet or Gates or Branson?
Yawn. Excuses are for losers and its exactly that mentality that is the problem (Just like the Chief says). Like I said already, there are safe, civilized, and self-sufficient communities from one end of this province to the other and we are living in the most prosperous economy in the country....no reason whatsoever why it can't be the same for all residents regardless of the colour of their skin. The time for whining and blaming others is over.....like Clarence said "if your life sucks....its because you suck" or "our ancestors worked for a living...so should you". Truer words have never been spoken.
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  #63  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2008, 9:10 PM
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Yawn. Excuses are for losers and its exactly that mentality that is the problem (Just like the Chief says). Like I said already, there are safe, civilized, and self-sufficient communities from one end of this province to the other and we are living in the most prosperous economy in the country....no reason whatsoever why it can't be the same for all residents regardless of the colour of their skin. The time for whining and blaming others is over.....like Clarence said "if your life sucks....its because you suck" or "our ancestors worked for a living...so should you". Truer words have never been spoken.
So, you don't anyone that works their butt off but still can't get ahead?

I know many, and most aren't native.

Where you come from, has alot to do with where you end up.
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  #64  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2008, 9:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Migs View Post
Yawn. Like I said already, there are safe, civilized, and self-sufficient communities from one end of this province to the other and we are living in the most prosperous economy in the country....no reason whatsoever why it can't be the same for all residents regardless of the colour of their skin.
What's your time line for this? The boom is new and we have yet to see how First Nations will respond to it. Some First Nations are starting to do fairly well here...without the chest-thumping, hardass, cocky attitude.

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Originally Posted by Migs View Post
like Clarence said "if your life sucks....its because you suck" or "our ancestors worked for a living...so should you". Truer words have never been spoken.
Simple in principle, but let's send you (or I) off to be abused and treated like shit for a few years and see how easily it comes. Sure, some can pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but many can't. So I guess writing off or further berating those who can't manage to shake off their demons is helpful in some way?

Last edited by psych1; Mar 14, 2008 at 11:18 PM.
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  #65  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2008, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by psych1 View Post
What's your time line for this? The boom is new and we have yet to see how First Nations will respond to it. Some First Nations are starting to do fairly well here...without the chest-thumping, hardass, cocky attitude.



Simple in principle, but let's send you (or I) off to be abused and treated like shit for a few years and see how easily it comes. Sure, some can pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but many can't. So I guess writing off or further berating those who can't manage to shake off their demons is helpful in some way?
If I could weigh in for a moment, yes Aboriginal people have experienced historical injustice.

However as I like to say, you can't legislate human motivation. Migs is right, only you have the power to positively change your life.

Millions of refugee's find their way into this country from war torn nations like Rwanda where genocide has taken place and manage to pull themselves together.

Lying in bed and waiting for the government to address the historical wrongs it has committed will never work. Who knows if that day will ever come.

You have to decide that you want to use each waking breath to improve your life, the lives of your children, grandchildren and greater community.

I have sympathy for the Aboriginal community and its plight, but I don't see how their lives can be any harder than that of a new immigrant from an improvised land.

On any given you or I can flag down a cab and ride with a Pakistani driver who used to be a doctor.

This cabby works a marginal job so that his family can make good in a new land.
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  #66  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2008, 3:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Only The Lonely.. View Post
If I could weigh in for a moment, yes Aboriginal people have experienced historical injustice.

However as I like to say, you can't legislate human motivation. Migs is right, only you have the power to positively change your life.

Millions of refugee's find their way into this country from war torn nations like Rwanda where genocide has taken place and manage to pull themselves together.

Lying in bed and waiting for the government to address the historical wrongs it has committed will never work. Who knows if that day will ever come.

You have to decide that you want to use each waking breath to improve your life, the lives of your children, grandchildren and greater community.

I have sympathy for the Aboriginal community and its plight, but I don't see how their lives can be any harder than that of a new immigrant from an improvised land.

On any given you or I can flag down a cab and ride with a Pakistani driver who used to be a doctor.

This cabby works a marginal job so that his family can make good in a new land.
Bravo!!! best post I've read all day.
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  #67  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2008, 2:30 PM
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Gage's final 15 months in hands of troubled kin

By: Mia Rabson



Internal child welfare documents which examine the system's involvement in the life and death of two-year-old Gage Guimond show the toddler and his older sister were taken from foster care and placed with family members social workers knew were unreliable, had criminal records and addictions problems.

The documents - obtained by the Free Press and believed to be part of ongoing reviews of Gage's July 2007 death - itemize the last 15 months of Gage's life. They show, sometimes in horrifying detail, how the system failed to ensure the safety of the Guimond children.

Enlarge Image Enlarge Image icon

Gage Guimond

On July 20, 2007, Gage was rushed to Children's Hospital in Winnipeg with severe head trauma after allegedly falling down the stairs at the home of his great aunt, Shirley Guimond.

He was taken off life support two days later, the day after his second birthday.

His sister, who cannot be identified, was apprehended from the same home covered in bruises. She was treated in hospital and released.

Shirley Guimond, is charged with manslaughter in connection to Gage's death.

Gage and his sister were placed in foster care in August 2006 after their mother abandoned them with various relatives. They were initially placed in foster care with a couple in Selkirk but Sagkeeng was determiend to find them a family placement.

First that was to be with their paternal grandmother despite the fact repeated entries in the children's files document the grandmother as being unreliable, unstable and likely an alcoholic.

The grandmother repeatedly failed to show up for scheduled visits with her grandchildren, or cancelled the visits at the last minute in order to visit with her probation officer. On one scheduled visit she left the children alone with two men listed only as "an older gentleman and someone sleeping on the floor." The social workers never bothered to find out who those men were or where the grandmother was during that visit.

The files are also missing evidence that Sagkeeng Child and Family Services ever obtained the requested alcohol assessment on the grandmother prior to placing them in her care in March 2007.

Just two months later, in May 2007, a visit to the grandmother's home found the children living in the "aftermath of a drinking party."

"Beer bottles on coffee and kitchen tables, by couch, people sleeping in the living room and other areas in the home, an intoxicated man. . ." is the notation in the file.

The kids also both had lice and had often been cared for by a 15-year-old uncle.

On June 19, 2007, the children were placed with their great-Aunt, Shirley Guimond. A safety assessment of her home identified the aunt as a low-risk despite the aunt having a criminal record for stealing a car, mischief and assault. She spent six months in prison for an assault charge in 1987.

Guimond's home also had cats, which posed a medical risk to Gage who had severe asthma which had required previous hospitalizations.

A notation in the documents made during the death review says "it appears Gage's medical conditions was not taken into consideration. ie. The presence of cats is not a good environment for an asthmatic, is that not correct?"

Liberal Leader Jon Gerrard said the province needs to call an inquest into Gage's case to look at what happened and investigate the sensitive issue of placing kids with family members at all costs.

"There are a lot of things swirling around on this case," said Gerrard. "We need a calm, careful look at what happened. This is not about laying blame, this is about learning and making things so it doesn't happen again."

A spokesman for Family Services Minister Gord Mackintosh said it's up to the chief medical examiner to call an inquest.

Jim Compton, spokesman for the Southern First Nations Child and Family Services Authority which is responsible for the Sagkeeng agency, said there has not been any policy changes due to factors in Gage's case and won't be for at least another three months.

"All I can tell you is there is a section four (review) being done on the case," said Compton. "That's not going to be done until June. We wouldn't have acted on anything policy wise (yet)."

mia.rabson@freepress.mb.ca
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  #68  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2008, 6:52 PM
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I'm interested rrskylar why you feel the need to post these articles that have nothing to do with construction and urban development?

Any of the arguements above could be considered reasonable as part of a debate about the development of first nations in canada, but I'm not sure what motivation other than spite you'd have for posting these articles repeatedly.

Anyone could easily keep posting articles about the atrocities that the American government and the Bush family has patricpated in under the heading Rich White People Issues....or maybe the similarly the high rates of cancer around uranium mines or the trauma and trouble that people ripped off in the Enron scandal or any other similar rich white folk type white collar crime (which as far as monetary cost to society far outweighs the cost of most crimes committed by the poorer segments of society) under the same topic heading...as if those were the only things rich white folk tend to do with themselves.

If you are looking to hold a debate about dependencies issues and poverty in society that might be a decent thing to do, it does affect the development of our cities, but this just seems like petty hate mongering by posting only negative articles about one segment of society.
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  #69  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2008, 6:54 PM
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and in regards to "if your life sucks, you suck" tell that to someone was defrauded by Enron or some other scandal like that or someone who lost family members in some tragedy like 9/11....lifes not so cut and dry.
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  #70  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2008, 8:15 PM
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the first nations people reciev billion of our tax dallors and yet they still live in impovershed conditions whats going on here and we continue to have these cluster fucks that kill people???
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  #71  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 2:58 AM
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^Very well put 1ajs! Sorta of what I'm getting to.
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  #72  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 3:02 AM
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Originally Posted by molasses View Post
I'm interested rrskylar why you feel the need to post these articles that have nothing to do with construction and urban development?

Any of the arguements above could be considered reasonable as part of a debate about the development of first nations in canada, but I'm not sure what motivation other than spite you'd have for posting these articles repeatedly.

Anyone could easily keep posting articles about the atrocities that the American government and the Bush family has patricpated in under the heading Rich White People Issues....or maybe the similarly the high rates of cancer around uranium mines or the trauma and trouble that people ripped off in the Enron scandal or any other similar rich white folk type white collar crime (which as far as monetary cost to society far outweighs the cost of most crimes committed by the poorer segments of society) under the same topic heading...as if those were the only things rich white folk tend to do with themselves.

If you are looking to hold a debate about dependencies issues and poverty in society that might be a decent thing to do, it does affect the development of our cities, but this just seems like petty hate mongering by posting only negative articles about one segment of society.


In my perfect world, everyone is treated equally regardless of colour, ethnicity, or whether they were in a certain place first. Why should there be a separate child and family services for each segment of our population?
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  #73  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 3:24 AM
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It’s called bureaucratic waste.

The government should issue checks directly to those eligible, let them live off reserve if they so choose (while still receiving the cheque and tax free status)

Don't give me any BS about how they'll spend it on alcohol, drugs, etc. every human should be given the trust of the government to spend it wisely, if they waste it, that's their problem and they will face the consequences such as going to jail for possession of drugs or have children taken away if they are alcoholics.

This should take place for two or three generations, with rate increases matching inflation, followed by a generation of a freeze at that level and then held there for a generation or two and then finally taken away.

This provides them generations to rebuild what the citizens of Canada took from them in generations past, and provides them the dignity and respect they need to be trusted with their future success.

A solution like this would be less expensive as you skip the middle person and corrupt governments both at the federal, provincial and native alike. This kind of system would give independence to the native people instead of tying them to failing reserve communities with no opportunities. No jobs on reserves means that the people have more opportunities to engage in unproductive behavior, where if you provide them with financial support and the tax free status anywhere in the country, they can then get jobs in regions with better economic conditions such as Alberta and in tern can provide financial support back to their families.

The current system we have now is inefficient, and has no end in sight. Something major needs to be done and direct payment system such as this could be the radical change necessary to produce effective results and actual improve long-term prospects instead of just trying to throw more and more money into a failed system.
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  #74  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 3:31 AM
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
In my perfect world, everyone is treated equally regardless of colour, ethnicity, or whether they were in a certain place first. Why should there be a separate child and family services for each segment of our population?
The realities of the situation of the native people are such that throwing a generalized system to solve their problems might not reflect certain cultural differences, family structures and other such issues.

Thus a system designed for one culture may not be effective on another. This doesn't necessarily mean it would have to opperate in a seperate beuraucratic system it just means that the front line service and the experience of the end user may need to be altered and to do that the underlying system would need to reflect the different services. In a situation were these systems are too different to function effectively under one roof then a second system to adapt to these unique needs, has to be established.
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  #75  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 5:56 PM
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^Very well put 1ajs! Sorta of what I'm getting to.

So semi-literate hate....I just wanted to make sure that was clear.

Now how about we talk about construction and development.
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  #76  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 6:52 PM
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So semi-literate hate....I just wanted to make sure that was clear.

Now how about we talk about construction and development.
How is it hate? They get billions of dollars from the government yet live in poverty, and a major cause of that is corruption in aboriginal governments. The ENTIRE PREVIOUS BAND COUNCIL of Fort William First Nation IS IN COURT FOR FRAUD. The case is so large, they had to renovate a vacant school to hold the proceeding; an entire wing is dedicated to evidence storage. And that is ONE BAND.

Corruption in First Nations governments is a HUGE part of the problem, and stating that is not hate.
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  #77  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 7:15 PM
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How is it hate? They get billions of dollars from the government yet live in poverty, and a major cause of that is corruption in aboriginal governments. The ENTIRE PREVIOUS BAND COUNCIL of Fort William First Nation IS IN COURT FOR FRAUD. The case is so large, they had to renovate a vacant school to hold the proceeding; an entire wing is dedicated to evidence storage. And that is ONE BAND.

Corruption in First Nations governments is a HUGE part of the problem, and stating that is not hate.

Here's what I was referring to:

"the first nations people reciev billion of our tax dallors and yet they still live in impovershed conditions whats going on here and we continue to have these cluster fucks that kill people???"

Maybe hate a strong word to use, maybe refering to it more as to paint an entire segment of the population in a negative way....is that alright? It does seem to be the entire point of this thread and it seems like rrskylar agreed with that.

If it were discussing a single bands issues, it might be a little more reasonable or if it were an entire thread dedicated to a diversity of stories on first nations issues and a discussion on solutions....including the many successful first nations people and the great things that have happened, despite the obvious abuses to many first nations people, but as it is this the point of this thread seems to be to vent about 'the problem with the indians', there has yet to be an article posted (I know there were a couple links posted..) about positive solutions (i.e. some of the urban reserves that are helping integrate first nations people into our cities).


To really simplify it, would you think it is alright (and not racist or hate motivated etc) to have a thread on a construction and development board titled 'White people issues' that simply posted stories about all the white pedophiles or all the corrupt white businessmen or goverment officials or even throw in the occaissional historical article about nazis or the christian crusades.

and then agree the point of the thread is:

"white people hav billion of dollars and receive our tax dallors to support there businesses and yet they still live in impovershed conditions and rip of investors/tax payers and abuse there children whats going on here and we continue to have these cluster fucks that kill people???"

I know it would seem to me to be a bit hate-fuelled.
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  #78  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 7:36 PM
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But I don't interpret it as hate of aboriginals, I interpret it as hate of the situation in which they have found themselves.

Anyway, here is a positive article, though it's about a single band which you seem to want to avoid?

Quote:
Why care about aboriginals?

There are scores of good reasons why life must improve for them

By KERRY DIOTTE
Edmonton Sun

Chief Clarence Louie is the rock star of the reserve.

He's a breath of fresh air in the quagmire of relations between native and non-native Canadians.

The 47-year-old chief of B.C.'s Osoyoos Indian Band believes the way the federal government has treated natives is dead-wrong.

Louie believes the $10 billion in annual federal assistance is dished out ass-backwards because an estimated 96% of it goes toward social programs and the like and only 4% is put toward economic development.

He was in Edmonton this past week preaching to an enthusiastic audience at a function for Edmonton Economic Development Corporation.

In a nutshell, he thinks "the best social program is a job.

"Our people have to get away from that mentality of spending money (and start) making money," Louie said. "I love creating jobs and I love making money," he said.

Hard work, not handouts, is the way to solving the criminally high rate of native unemployment, poverty and incarceration, he argues.

"You can be a socialist all your life but you still have to work for someone."

JOBS AVAILABLE

Every one of his 460 band members can have a job if they truly want it, said Louie.

That could be doing anything from working for a native-owned construction company to toiling at the band's championship golf course to helping out on the reserve's posh winery and thriving vineyard.

After doing a column this past week on the tell-it-like-it-is leader, I was flooded by letters.

Readers were impressed and buoyed by the chief.

"Chief Louie is indeed an inspiring, effective and highly successful Indian leader," raved one reader.

"I live in Kamloops and the Kamloops Indian Band functions in a similar way," said another.

"I have been telling journalists such as Lorrie Goldstein about Chief Louie for years. Finally someone has written about him."

So why is Louie so important - and why should all Canadians be deeply concerned with the plight of natives?

Well, we're kinder, gentler people in Canada - and I truly believe most all of us want every person in this nation to be a productive, happy member of our society.

For another, taxpayers of all races (including aboriginals) shell out $10 billion annually to help an estimated 1 million natives.

Obviously, that money is not doing much to cure the chronic problems, so we need more solutions like those proposed by the B.C. chief.

Consider also that Canada's native population is growing at breakneck speed.

POPULATION GROWTH

If we do not solve the problems for the natives who live here now, how much worse is it going to be after a further population explosion?

It's predicted Edmonton will soon have the nation's largest population of natives - so we have to find a solution to their plight, especially given some grim facts:

- More than 50% of Edmonton's aboriginal population lives in poverty

- Almost half of all local aboriginals have not completed high school

- Some 43% of the total average monthly child protection caseload in the Edmonton region focuses on aboriginal families.

Besides curing the human pain factor, the sad thing is we're in the middle of a labour shortage.

If we can find a fix for the high rate of native unemployment here, our problems will be solved.

That's a fact Chief Louie himself stressed this past week.

Why do we have to open up our country to more immigration if we have a raw labour pool right here, he asked?

I say we should put Louie in charge of tapping into that labour pool.

He's inspirational enough to motivate anyone.
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  #79  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 9:57 PM
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thank you Molases for saying more clearly, what I was trying to say a few pages back. I agree wholeheartedly with you and I feel these kind of threads give all of us on the prairies a black eye. I am pleased to share a city with you Yours are the best posts I've read all day. Now, would somebody, please make this thread go away.
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  #80  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 10:38 PM
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Could someone please rid the world of those who are terminally obsessed with being politically correct - all the time!
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